BA
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I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:54 am

Everytime I land a large jet in FS2000, it bounces up in the air a little, then comes down again What is the key to making an extremely smooth landing?

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:41 am

Most of the time the problem is a badly designed .air file. Try Alian Capts MD-11 package and if you still bounce it(the .air file was tested by an MD-11 pilot) then it is your technique not the airplane. Without trying out a good flight model it is very difficult to tell.

As a general rule though, use the ILS or PAPI lights for vertical guidence, flaps fully down, keep the nose up about 3 degrees and control your decent using power not the elevator, as you cross the threashold, reduce power by about half and pitch the nose up slightly.

Like I said though, some a/c are impossible to land without some bouce, including the stock 737 that came with FS98.
 
Jason Seiple
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:05 am

Just like in real life flight training....
It takes practice to make a good landing (few landings ever turn out to be absolutely perfect). Once you do it the first time, something will click and you will be able to repeat whatever you did. Just remember to watch your approach speeds, flaps settings, descent rate and use the VASI/PAPI/ILS for hints on your glideslope position.
 
cramos
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:41 pm

Jason has got it. I've found that speed is extremely important. Make sure you are maintaining that 140kts or whatever your Vref is. Things go really fast on final approach. Of course be watching the other things too especially your rate of descent. Landings do take practice, and they always give me white knuckles, but it is rewarding after a successful landing.

If you are using FS2000, I've found that a visual aid in lining up with the centerline is just above the GPS/NAV switch, if you put the threshold near this point, and fly the aircraft, you'll get really close to the runway centerline (only if you are in VFR though, or you can see the runway with enough distance). Hope this helps.

Regards
 
EGNV
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:59 pm

Keep to the right speed to avoid bouncing, try about 135 knots in a 737 with full flap. Also, extend spoilers just before touchdown. Monitor the speed on the approach. Approach at about 140-145 kts, slow to 135 with spoilers just before touchdown, seems to work OK. I only fly this on FS2000, I only pilot Cessna in the real world.
 
chiawei
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Smooth Landing

Sat Sep 01, 2001 7:02 am

I usually flies 744. The approach speed that I use is between 150-155. Maintain 800FPM decent. At about 50 feet above the runway, begin to flare by simply moving the nose slightly up, idle the thrust. At this time, speed should decrease to around 145-150, the vertifical speed would only be 100fpm. And you will not bounce up and down.
 
tbar220
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sat Sep 01, 2001 9:07 am

Critical in the landing to make it those smooth "greasers" is the last two feet in the decent. I know that sounds crazy, but I read in a FLYING magazine that the pilots of the 727 would get the best landing when they would concentrate on those last few feet. Just let her float down the runway for 1000 at most 2000 feet (if its a long runway), and settle her down nicely.

If you ever do any aircraft spotting, you will see how the aircraft decend oh so slowly through those last remaining feet, its an amazing thing to see.
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SierraAir
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RE: Smooth Landing

Sat Sep 01, 2001 9:07 am

Speed is probably the most important thing, but a major problem is what amount of fuel that you're landing with. If you try to land a plane with full fuel, it's going to have problems landing, no matter what speed you land at.

Brian
 
Notar520AC
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:34 am

So many things could be wrong. No offense, but I think it's your technique, not the simulator. It also depends on which aircraft you're trying to land- lighties tend to bounce to the terminal if you don't use the correct engine and speed settings. Also, your flaps, trim, speedbrakes, and fuel weight plays a major role in it too. What flap settings do you use for each aircraft? Do you come in fast, too fast maybe? I always reverse the engines, deploy spoilers and slam on the brakes as soon as the wheels hit the ground- works just fine. Your power settings are probably the most vital thing- too high- too fast, too low- too slow. You need to take advantage of all the systems- control surfaces on the wings and power in order to make a good landing. Of course, we helicopter pilots don't need any of this. hehehe. Good luck and happy flying!
BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:49 am

I always use full flaps during landing.

However, I do tend to hit the brakes, spoilers, and reversers pretty slow since I use the keyboard keys, and I am pre-occupied with my joystick to allign with the runway.

I recently landed an A340 at DEN, what I did was I decreased my speed quite a bit (I used to land at pretty high speeds, lets say 200-250knots Big grin).

Well I think I'm good to go now. I've began slowing down, and become quicker at putting the brakes.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Jason Seiple
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2000 7:42 am

RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:15 am

Or you could do like me flying my SF-340 and Metro's in flight sim....

Fly it in real fast and on short final drop the flaps and reverse pitch the props before touchdown.  Smile
 
N139J
Posts: 371
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:39 am

I also use a joystick, but here are a few hints to help you hit those keys a little faster:
Before you begin your whole approach sequence (when things get busy) arm your spoilers (SHIFT+/). This will automatically deploy your spoliers when your wheels touch the ground and will retract them when your reversers are disengaged. Program the trigger button on the stick to be your brakes. That way you already have a finger there. If you have more buttons, i would also program a button for flaps to make it a little easier to hit when you are starring out the window at the runway. Once your NOSE WHEEL touches, you need not worry about the stick..everything is done with rudder now. Use one hand to engage reverse and the other to man the rudder buttons. At 60KIAS, disengage reverse and apply brakes to slow to taxi speed. Hope this helps.
-Jason
N139J
 
SPRINGBOK
Posts: 190
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:56 am

Smooth, precise controls, correct airspeed, use of flaps/spoilers , it just comes by practise so keep at it.
SPRINGBOK
 
EGNV
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 8:13 am

RE: A Note About Braking

Sun Sep 02, 2001 7:18 am

I suggest using autobrake for a realistic stopping distance. FS only has one option "BRAKES" they apply to much pressure on the brakes, and the stopping distance can be unrealisticly short. Also, I wish you could do left and right braking like in real aircraft, so you can get round the tight taxiways easier.
Hopefully some things will be resolved for FS2002.

Can I recommend doing some realy world flying instead?
After all, it still is a hobby, and better than simulation. Not that I have a problem with simulation.

Kyle
 
AeroGlobeAir7
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Sun Sep 02, 2001 12:33 pm

Here's a detailed description of how to make a pretty good landing, doesn't have to be perfect, as others have pointed out. The aircraft I'm using as an example is the 737-400 default aircraft on FS2000. And an approach to Kansas City International (MCI) runway 19L.

Approaching Kansas City from the Southeast, you should fly until the aircraft marker on the GPS is in line with OJC (Johnson County Executive), by now you should be about 24,000 feet in the air, or less, and descending at a rate of about 1,800-2,000 feet per minute (fpm). Turn north so that you are pointed towards the green ILS approach paths marked on the GPS, slow to about 250 knots, and keep your flaps pulled in. If you're going very fast, open the speedbrakes (spoilers) for a moment or two, to get the airspeed slowing a little quicker. Now that you're pointed towards the MCI ILS runway 19L path, continue descending so that you are approximately 2,000-1,800 feet in the air at the outer edge of the path. About 20 miles out have flaps 15, and at 2,000 feet call the gear down. Set your spoilers to the "arm" position, and set your auto-brakes to "1". Slow to 140 knots at the outer marker, and regulate engine power to maintain this airspeed as you set the flaps to full. Slow your descent a bit, at the middle marker beacon you should be about 350 feet in the air, at the inner marker you should be about 125. At the inner marker pull the power back to just above idle, just enough to keep the plane in the air. And begin to flare, power up or down as needed, so the plane doesn't begin a climb, and doesn't begin to sink to quickly. At about 30-40 feet above the runway idle your engines and hold the flare, as soon as the main gear touches down begin to apply reverse thrust. You should be moving about 135 knots at touchdown. Reverse your engines until you've slowed to 60 knots, then idle them to prevent any foreign object ingestion. Disarm the auto brakes and the spoilers, and slow to 30 knots before turning onto the taxiway towards the terminal. Close your flaps and taxi to the gate.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Hope I helped!

Andrew
AeroGlobeAir7
BABY BOEINGS ALL THE WAY!!!
FLY DELTA JETS!

 
IndianGuy
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Mon Sep 03, 2001 12:09 am

I was pretty bad at landing too. but i do a pretty decent job now! I dont know whether this is what REAL pilots do, but the foll approach works for me.
------------------------------
Level out at around 3000 feet AGL around 15 nm from the rwy, let the speed decay to around 10-15 knots ABOVE stalling speed (for an A320 that would be around 160 knots, for an A300 around 170). The Flaps should be one notch lower than maximum, and begin a gentle descent. make any alignments necessary now to avoid sharp truns later. Reduce descent rate further around 3 nm from the rwy. switch off the autopilot and deploy landing gear. let speed decay to slightly below stall speed. Deploy last notch flap when over the extended centreline to further reduce descent rate to ~500 fpm. Most aircraft models wil be in a slightly nose-high position, so just let the aircraft touch down.
-------

Can some REAL pilots tell me if this approach is what u guys do in REAL life?

i hope MS will bring in a facility to simulate WET runways and other such conditions in the future. prehaps even enter the cloudbase and other such parameteres? wouldnt that be fantastic?
 
Mr.BA
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Mon Sep 03, 2001 7:31 pm

I fly the Boeing777-200 professional add on package for the FS 2000. I select the autopilot to fly the approach until 3 miles finals then I disconnect it and do it manually. Approaching the threshold with 140 knots (same speed while approaching earlier with autopilot), i go too high, but when i reduce speed just by a little, it says i go too low. i don't really bounce when i touchdown, but i always touch too early! If i don't reduce speed, i would bounce.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: I Just Can't Make Smooth Landings....

Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:14 am

How do you turn on autobrakes? Is there a keyboard key that enables it?

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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