jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:51 am

And the name is NOT FS2004 after all.
Release this summer (so not autumn as usual)!

Official announcement (with screenshots):
<http://zone.msn.com/flightsim/FS02SpecialFS9.asp>

Main points:

- improved ATC
- more (mainly historic) aircraft
- improved weather engine with realtime automated download
- clickable virtual cockpits
- new GPS units based on Garmin 400 and 500 series
- difference between Pro and Std versions dropped. Only a single version

price to be about $55 US.
I wish I were flying
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:01 am

Do you still think they'll release FS2004 or is this FS2004 but they called it FS9?
I hope so they still make a FS2004, but this looks pretty good.

DC-10
 
Captain.MD-11
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:03 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:03 am

Having looked at the screen shots it looks pretty impressive, however I would have liked to have seen a few extra new features. Ahh well I can't ask for the impossible. I think I might stick with FS2002.
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
longhaul747
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:04 am

At this point I am not sure if I should be happy or sad. This looks like a dressed up version of FS2002. It offers some pretty cool enhancements but it looks to be about 95% the same as FS2002.

I am also wondering if this is an interim version between FS2002 and FS2004?

At the last avsim social in speaking with the M$ guys it was mentioned that the next version of FS2004 would be a radical new design. It would no longer support the BGL code. In the short term this would be disappoint but in the long term we would be able to get better designs and of all things much better performance.

At the moment I am leaning towards disappointment because this looks like a dressed up version of FS2002. Will I buy it? Yeah of coarse I will.

Chris

[Edited 2003-02-10 22:05:56]

[Edited 2003-02-10 22:11:23]
 
Msh744
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 10:09 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:06 am

Sounds pretty good, but as Captain.md-11 mentioned, I would like to see some new features besides those announced, but I'll get it anyways. Thanks for the heads-up.

-Msh744
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:07 am

Marketing says this IS FS2004.
Nothing else makes sense, they can't release the versions too close together (even 2 years is pushing it...).
Remember Microsoft never released a name for the new version. Personally I'd expected them to call it FS XP to follow the current product naming of Office and Windows.
The chosen name makes perfect sense if you consider marketing. "Century of Flight" is used all over the world for this year's activities surrounding the centennial of powered flight which is this year.

At the last avsim social in speaking with the M$ guys it was mentioned that the next version of FS2004 would be a radical new design. It would no longer support the GIG / SBGL), Brazil">BGL code. In the short term this would be disappoint but in the long term we would be able to get better designs and of all things much better performance.
Dropping support for the current BGL model won't happen until a replacement model has been in the product for 2 releases.
As there is no new model in FS2002, it won't be dropped until at least 2 versions AFTER this new release.
A new scenery model might be introduced, but current scenery should remain compatible.
This is Microsoft policy that they follow almost religiously (the only times they don't is when something turns out to have been a disastrous mistake which is extremely rare).

See above why I don't think it's an interim version (unless you consider 2 years to be an interim period. Some people consider every 2nd release an interim version, and skip it).

[Edited 2003-02-10 22:11:39]
I wish I were flying
 
longhaul747
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:20 am

Yeah I agree with you....

It would not make sense if this is an interim product. I also think dropping the pro-version and standard versions make sense. For the average consumer this caused confusion.

The weather looks much better and the sky looks a little refined. I see better textures for the autogen.

Hopefully they fixed the bugs in FS2002.


GIG / SBGL), Brazil">BGL code. I have no idea why airliners.net put all that garbage in my post..LOL. All I typed was BGL but when I posted it put all that extra garbage in there....STRANGE!!!!

Chris





 
crank
Posts: 1524
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 11:42 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:25 am

I think that this is the FS2004 that we've all been waiting for, and in my opinion it looks pretty good. Just like any MSFS version, I'll have to go get it as soon as it comes out.
 
longhaul747
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:29 am

I was looking closely at the Learjet and it looks to be more detailed then the old version from FS2000 and FS2002. Same with the Mooney. Hopefully all the default aircraft have been upgraded to G-Max.

Chris
 
teahan
Posts: 4987
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:13 am

This would be great it is was a $20-30 expansion pack but as for paying $55, installing it and having to reinstall all of my current add-ons, I am not so sure. Will I end up buying it? Probably yes IF I don't need a new PC.

The screenshots look like FS2002 with a few add-ons.

Jeremiah


[Edited 2003-02-10 23:17:41]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:28 am

What are the new aircraft?
 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:15 am

Well I am dissapointed. I was hoping for totally new product, but to me this does indeed look like a fancied up version of 02. But I guess I'll have to try it out to see.

Hopefully, the improvements to the ATC will be significant and not just the implementations of things that are already in FS2002 but don't work such as; speed restrictions, wake turbulance warnings, direct routings... etc.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:48 am

This IS FS2004 folks and naming it Flight Simulator: A Century of Flight is an excellent move. Why? Because 2003 is century since the Wright Flyer 1 took off.

It's only appropriate to dedicate this version of Flight Simulator to celebrating 100 years of flight.

Perhaps the next version of Flight Simulator will be called FS2006.

It looks quite good. Graphics don't seem any different from FS2002, but that's fine with me. This new FS will have several improvements such as improved ATC (what we've all been waiting for) and the interactive 3D virtual cockpits.

Also, it will add 2000 new airports.  Smile

I'll buy this the first day it comes out.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 3896
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:06 am

These improvements sound very good.......Enhanced interactive air traffic control (ATC), including traffic at all airports around the world (including non-towered airports), altitude changes en route, pop-up IFR clearances, and precision and non-precision approaches to multiple runways. Scenery improvements, including taxiway and runway signs, enhanced auto-gen 3D objects, more high-detail airports, and improved lighting and sky effects. Dynamic weather system based on realistic atmospheric physics, with true three-dimensional clouds that form and dissipate, and automatic real-world weather updates when you're connected to the Internet.

The extra planes they say that will be in it doesn't really matter that much to me, cause I will hardly ever fly half of them and just download the ones I want from the net.

From the screenshots I seen it looks like they improved the look of the clouds a whole lot. The lighting looks very good too.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:15 am

I'm game. I'll end up getting it!

Continental
 
brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:12 am

The thing I want most in the next FS is better weather, and this looks like it will provide that, so I'm horny about it. Excellent.

Brian
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:39 pm

I am not to pleased with it and I don't think I will get it until I hear some good reviews.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:26 am

You're not too pleased with what?
With Microsoft listening and spending more time on non-visual improvements than on eyecandy?
Because that's the only thing you can at this stage know (and that only very superficially) about the product.

And if you look for more than a fleeting glance at the screenshots you'll see that even in these (and may I remind that those are an early prerelease version) shots the eyecandy too has improved quite a bit from the FS2002 defaults (though not quite to the level that 3rd party addons can provide, but that's logical if you consider that those are spot areas and not global like the default scenery).

From those small previews the most important aspects of the sim and the improvements cannot be seen:
- flight dynamics
- weather engine
- ATC engine
- general performance
All those should be a marked improvement on anything we've seen before, yet don't show up in screenshots...
I wish I were flying
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:33 am

Oh I can't believe that this IS FS2004.
I'm sticking with 02. $55 (£40) is too much because like Longhaul747 said, this is 95% of FS2002.

DC-10
 
crank
Posts: 1524
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 11:42 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 2:22 am

With only a few screenshots available you can't say that this is 95% FS2002, I'd wait to try the sim before saying that...
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:18 am

The only part that's 95% FS2002 is the core scenery... And even that looks to be more like 75% than 95  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

People are just making up excuses for themselves to use a pirated copy claiming it "should have been a free upgrade so I'm not doing anything wrong" and BS like that.
Others are just sounding the party line (it's Microsoft so it must be bad) or don't think further than what they can see looking at a screenshot of a prerelease version that has been downsized for web use for half a second.
I wish I were flying
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:16 am

I still wish they'd create FS2004.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

DC-10
 
crank
Posts: 1524
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 11:42 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:45 am

This IS FS2004, it's just the name that's different from what we expected.
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:58 am

It's totally different from what we expected.

DC-10
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:28 am

But if it's FS: A Century Of Flight, then its FS 2003. Plus it will be released at mid year not autumn, so......I'm buying it anyway. Looks great!
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:59 am

I don't think it's totally different than expected! It has a bunch of new crap, which is what we expected. What else could they do!?

Continental
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:58 am

I am satisfied with my 02 there is nothing on 04 that really makes me think it is worth 55US. Nothing against microsoft. I hope that 06 is better.
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 11:07 am

You guys have to remember that this is still in the extreme alpha stage. There are tons of things they are still working and not ready yet so most of the time they just put FS2002 stuff to fill the gaps until the new stuff is ready.

I cant believe you guys see only a dozen screenshots and say that you will wait for FS2006.

It is NOWHERE NEAR DONE YET.
 
soontobepilot
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 9:18 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:23 pm

$55 is not that much, folks! For as much time as many of you put into simming, it seems that it would be worth spending this measly amount for the top-of-the-line sim! I would recommend putting it perspective, cost wise:

A dinner for two at a reasonably nice restaurant - $30
A dinner for four at a reasonably nice restaurant - $60

Both of these take under 1 HOUR, folks!

A reasonable new computer - $900-$1200
One addon plane from Cerenado and the like - $10-$45 ( 8O for 1 plane! )
One-way ticket from SEA-SFO - about $100 (???)
One hour in a real cessna renting - from $85 - $150

Now, in FS, you can do as many hours as you would like, up to the tens of thousands, and it costs only $55. Tens of thousands of airports are included, as well as over 20 perfectly good airplanes and many cities in great detail. MSFS is and will always be a great product for the cost, IMO. I still us FS98 because me computer is crap and I still don't want to pay over $1000 for a new one, but I am even satisfied with FS98! Keep in mind that other IFR sims like OnTop cost into the hundreds, and possibly over a thousand, dollars! I would say we are getting a pretty good deal for just $55!!!

I would reccommend that you weigh a few items before you go on about how much it costs. First, how much time do you spend on it??? If you do the math, 500 hours of flight time will cost 1 cent an hour. Next, think of other things that you spend that much on and think what kind of impact they have on your life. I would think FS has a bigger impact, wouldn't you?

I just posted this because I was sick of reading gripes about the cost. I guess that is human nature, though. Never satisfied...

-soontobepilot
 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:08 pm

It is NOWHERE NEAR DONE YET.

Actually if it is being released in the summer it is very much DONE. It is now probably entering testing if it already isn't at that stage. So what you see in those shots is pretty much a done deal, now it's just going to be 4 months of straight testing.
 
deltaalpha
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:59 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:39 pm

I dont know why so many people say that they will stick with fs2002. They said that after fs2000. Its just another evolution of the product. I think if it improves its worth it. The Main question or concern I have is that products be compatible. Such as My Traffic. Or FS add on manager, ready for pushback and other products that I have paid for. That is the one thing that I would like to see out of this.
Delta Alpha
Common sense is not all that common
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:10 pm

There is a HUGE difference between fs2000 and fs2002 so don't even compare them. There is nothing that catches my eye on FS2004 and I am satisfied with my 2002 so why would I pay $100 dollars on it.
 
longhaul747
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:58 pm

I was a little skeptical at first but I have since changed my mind....Look at the links below.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/news/02/11/flight/flight_screen001.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/news/02/11/flight/flight_screen003.jpg

If I can actually fly in and around those cloud fronts I will be in heaven.

At the avsim social in Lake Tahoe I had a chance to talk to one of the M$ guys at length. I had mentioned that all FS2004 really needs is 3 dimensional weather with expanded weather environments. I had mentioned how cool it would be to be flying in the clear but 20 miles away is a bee-line of thunderstorms over your destination as an example. This type of weather would force you to wait or divert. Also the possibility of a random cloud generator so every cloud in somewhat unique was mentioned.

They were very careful not to reveal any information other then the possibility of no BGL code. They also mentioned they were not happy with the roads in FS2002. The scenery engine in FS2002 would only allow one width of roads. So I bet the roads look a lot better in MSFS 9.0.
 
deltaalpha
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:59 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:27 am

No one is comparing 2002 with 2000 at least im not Im just saying folks shouldnt be so quick to denounce the new product.
Delta Alpha
Common sense is not all that common
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:09 am

they're just making up excuses to use a pirated copy...
"it should have been a patch, so I'm entitled to get it free", "it's so bad it's not worth the money they charge for it, and they still owe me a patch for FS2002 so I'll take this instead", "punishing big company for releasing bad software", etc etc etc.
I wish I were flying
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:20 am

I gotta tell you folks, it's pathetic how some of you automatically judge the game by screenshots and only seem to care about graphics.

Most of you probably didn't even bother to read the new features and improvements.

If Flight Simulator: A Century of Flight happens to have the EXACT same graphics engine as FS2002, I wouldn't care. It would still be worth it because of the NEW FEATURES.

If all you care is about graphics, then flight simulation isn't for you. When a software series is improved, they don't just improve on graphics. They improve on the software. I care about realism, options, and flexibility more than graphics.

Those of you who are just looking for better eye candy are not true flight simulators.

I'm sorry if this was harsh, but it had to be said.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:39 am

Who are you to judge or say what a real "flight simulator" is? It means different things to different people. You cannot categorize people as "real" flight simulators because it means many different things to many different people. What you consider to be "real" others may not.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 8:50 am

I'm always happy to see a new MSFS come out. I am much like a few others here, a bit disappointed that it didn't go further. What this means though is I wont have to upgrade my computer, maybe just a new video card and more RAM will do. Another great thing is for those who have current addons, such as 767 PIC, PSS A320, and scenery such as the simflyers scenery, it should all work in the new FS. In any case, the only screenshot that really impressed me I have included below. A small detail, is you can see the shodows created by the clouds, and where the sun shines through. I want to look for more small details such as that which should really increase the realism of flight.

"http://zone.msn.com/images/FS02/FS9Schweizer_Sailplane_10.jpg">
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:06 am

I haven't even seen the the screenshots I am just judging it from what I read. I have a crappy computer so if it had better graphics it just make the game really slow on my computer.

they're just making up excuses to use a pirated copy.

Who the hell has even hinted about pirating it? No one is saying it should be a free upgrade so stop putting words in peoples mouths.
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:31 am

src=http://www.flightsim.com/notams03/acof/vimy05s.jpg>

 Wow!

Continental
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:32 am

Fri-gatza, it didn't work.

<http://www.flightsim.com/notams03/acof/vimy05s.jpg>

continental
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:42 am

I don't know about you guys but i'm drooling over this: Enhanced interactive air traffic control (ATC), including traffic at all airports around the world (including non-towered airports), altitude changes en route, pop-up IFR clearances, and precision and non-precision approaches to multiple runways.


These are as important changes as any graphical improvement. But, i honestly did expect more than this. As i said though, the changes in the ATC are much appriceated especially if it from now on can speed separate planes on approach. By summer we'll see.

 
Guest

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:12 am

Wow,

Did Microsoft read my posts of suggestions for FS2k4? It looks like I got just about everything I wanted!--With the bonuses of the historic aircraft. Yeah, I'm getting it when it comes out (even though I said I probably wouldn't--but then again, I didn't expect it to have all those historic airplanes!)

'Speed
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:43 am

Ok, I've checked the screenshots over again, and I like it!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The scenery in that screenshot posted by Continental is great, and I'd also like to see improvements to ATC.

DC-10
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:28 am

I wonder what processor/GFX card resources it will require, compared to 2002. I upgraded my PC specifically for 2002, so I hope I don't have to fork out a load of cash again on hardware!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:50 am

I will probably end up getting it as a Bday present anyways so I won't have to pay the $100 dollars.
 
B727-200
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 11:28 am

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:21 pm


I have always thought the game needed more work on gameplay realism than on its graphics, so if that is the path they have taken then bring it on!!!!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Msfs Announced

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:21 pm

posted minimal specs are similar to those for FS2002, and Mauri Pratt from Avsim who spoke with the team said they're concentrating heavily on performance optimisation so my guess is it will run as good or better on the same hardware you're running FS2002 on now.
I wish I were flying

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