tbar220
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Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 5:23 am

Hello everybody. I'm interested in doing an FS2004 fly-in. I think it would be fun if we could get together online/multiplayer and fly into an airport. Here's what I've come up with.

***

The airport of interest is:

KBIH - Eastern Sierra Regional Airport
Bishop, California, USA
Elevation - 4120 feet

Runways:

12/30 - 7498 x 100 ft.
16/34 - 5600 x 100 ft.
7/25 - 5566 x 100 ft.

Nearby Major Airports:

KFAT - Fresno Yosemite International Airport (74.1 nm ENE 061 deg)
KRNO - Reno/Tahoe International Airport (143.6 nm SSE 153 deg)
KLAS - McCarran International Airport (172.8 nm WNW 297 deg)
KOAK - Metropolitan Oakland International Airport (184.7 nm E 096 deg)
KLAX - Los Angeles International Airport (205.8 nm N 001 deg)

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBIH

The Eastern Sierra Regional Airport is located two miles east of the city of Bishop, CA. It is nestled in the Owens Valley between the beautiful Sierra Nevada Mountain range to the west and the White Mountain Range to the east. Nearby is Mt. Whitney, the tallest mountain in the lower 48 states measuring at 14,494 feet. The area has great hiking, fishing, sightseeing, sailing, hang-gliding, etc.

At the airport is Sierra Wings Restauraunt. With an affordable menu of a variety of foods, this is the perfect stop for aviators in the area.

http://sierrawings.com/

***

Just having a little fun with the above  Smile

So what do you all think? Would it be fun to have an online fly-in to this airport?

Thanks
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bully707
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:11 am

I would not know how to do those on-line flights...but am interested!!!!

 Sad  Wink  Wink  Wink

I'd bring my old trusted A300B2....7000odd ft is long enough for it...!!!


Godspeed

Bully
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zotan
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:47 am

Email Vatsim. Maybe they can get an online event for you.
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:06 am

I am down, sounds like a lot of fun....

Just post when.....

Regards
VSFT
 
FiddleSticks
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:35 am

It would be best to stick to default aircraft for this I think. The aircraft will only display on other's computer if they have the exact same thing installed (with matching title) themselves, if they don't have your aircraft all they'll see is a copy of what they are flying. Also the default aircraft use multiple levels of detail (which many other UI aircraft don't) so that would lighten the load on those who don't have a great deal of spare computer horsepower.

Just ask Chris what happens when you get a bunch of Meljet 777s on the screen at one time!

This sounds like lots of fun.
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tbar220
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 3:32 pm

ZOTAN,

I haven't and don't use VATSIM, tried it once and had a lot of difficulty. Right now I don't know if I have the time to learn how to use it, but maybe I will.

If not using VATSIM, how would we arrange a multiplayer session like this? Just have one person hosting the game and the rest connecting via IP?
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N754AN
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 20, 2005 5:05 pm

Quoting FiddleSticks (Reply 4):
Just ask Chris what happens when you get a bunch of Meljet 777s on the screen at one time!

You end up having to take Valium for the rest of your life!  rotfl 

Chris
Fankoooooooo
 
msp753nwa
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 21, 2005 12:46 am

Hi,

Im up for it. Great idea Tbar220.


Matt
Going Boeing
 
SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 21, 2005 2:16 am

I must say its a great idea but FS Multiplayer sucks   .

FS Multiplayer makes it a bit messy.

-SA006   

EDIT : When I say FS Multiplayer , I mean the Multiplayer that comes along with FS...Vatsim is awesome though.

[Edited 2005-05-20 19:21:53]
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Mir
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:11 am

I'm definately up for it, but I'll be unable to participate in these until after the Paris Air Show at least.  Sad

Perhaps there can be another one in the future.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
qr332
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Tue May 24, 2005 6:42 pm

I'm up for it, I think we should find a good MP server and a TS server we could use though if were going to make it fun.

And Tbar, maybe we could have it at an international airport in Europe such as AMS, CDG or something? No offence or anything, I just think a major international hub makes more sense.

Also, what about ATC? Or are we just going to fly without ATC? I have participated in several fly-ins in the past where about 5 of us where flying in formation from CDG to Jersey I think, and when we got to there we all split up and landed one by one. It was a lot of fun and we didn't need any ATC.

Whatever happens, i'm up for it.
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Tue May 24, 2005 6:59 pm

If it is Multiplayer, I'll bring the 744. Can't use VATSIM for crap.
 
SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
Also, what about ATC?

If you guys give me a week or so , I can control you guys using ATC Simulator 2(It can connect to FS2004)...I just have to set it up and get it running correctly. (Thing is , we may have to use an American airport since all the airports are american on the program)

Then , all you guys have to do is download teamspeak and we can have some voice transmissions (Even if you don't have a microphone , still nice to hear people talking and receive instructions that way.)

I'd rather control than fly to be honest  Smile

What do you guys think?

-SA006
Proudly South African
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 1:22 am

I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, but do you want to make use of the airliners.net VA (www.anetairlines.co.uk) facilities? We could host some information on our site and I think we could provide a server for hosting teamspeak and other multiplayer stuff, although I need to check with the owner  Smile
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ly7e7
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 1:29 am

Count me in. Just explain me how to join a mp game  Smile
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Espion007
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 3:50 am

It would be an awsome idea only if we download each other's plane Big grin
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AR1300
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 1:30 pm

Great idea.But never did it.I'll need some explanation...

Mike
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qr332
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting SA006 (Reply 12):
If you guys give me a week or so , I can control you guys using ATC Simulator 2(It can connect to FS2004)...I just have to set it up and get it running correctly. (Thing is , we may have to use an American airport since all the airports are american on the program)

Then , all you guys have to do is download teamspeak and we can have some voice transmissions (Even if you don't have a microphone , still nice to hear people talking and receive instructions that way.)

I'd rather control than fly to be honest Smile

What do you guys think?

Hmm, sounds good but I have no experience with ATC Simulator 2 - in all my fly-ins for my former VA they used FSNavigator. Also, is one controller enough? Your gonna need at least another person to work on another frequency.

Quoting Timjohns (Reply 13):
I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, but do you want to make use of the airliners.net VA (www.anetairlines.co.uk) facilities? We could host some information on our site and I think we could provide a server for hosting teamspeak and other multiplayer stuff, although I need to check with the owner

Sounds great! Do you think you could find out and reply to us in this thread?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Wed May 25, 2005 9:53 pm

http://www.anetairlines.co.uk/ - I've added a page. I'll ask about the server.
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SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 17):
Also, is one controller enough? Your gonna need at least another person to work on another frequency.

Yep , this did cross my mind. I'll see what I can do.

-SA006  wave 
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yooyoo
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 1:25 am

Sounds like a great idea. If the date and time work, i'll be there. Anything to hear SA's voice and reply to his instructions "say again" Big grin

Seriously, umm...if you do a FS2004 multiplayer flight, everybody needs to have the model/type/product aircraft on everybody else computer or you just get a 152 flying on your screen when it should be a 777. Had that happen to me before...i think it was with Zak?

Andreas  spin 
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SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Yooyoo (Reply 20):
Anything to hear SA's voice and reply to his instructions "say again"

LOL  Smile

Yes it was with me. My tornado turned out to be a C172 on your screen.

-SA006
Proudly South African
 
FiddleSticks
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting Yooyoo (Reply 20):
everybody needs to have the model/type/product aircraft on everybody else computer or you just get a 152 flying on your screen when it should be a 777

I know this idea will render moans and groans but as I mentioned before it'd be best to stick to default aircraft only if we were to do something like this.

A. I'm sure people don't want to download X number of airplanes and repaints so they can actually see what the other person is actually flying. Especially if they are on dial up. The titles of the aircraft in the .cfg must match as well.

B. The default aircraft make use of the levels of detail so as distance grows the complexity of the model decreases. Most non-AI aircraft have one level of detail, getting a bunch of these kind of aircraft on screen at one time would likely make FS unusable as the framerates would drop dramatically.

FiddleSticks
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synakus
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:40 am

I'll try and be there if the date and time works! This should be great fun!

I would love to have a live atc!
 
qr332
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting FiddleSticks (Reply 22):
A. I'm sure people don't want to download X number of airplanes and repaints so they can actually see what the other person is actually flying. Especially if they are on dial up. The titles of the aircraft in the .cfg must match as well.

B. The default aircraft make use of the levels of detail so as distance grows the complexity of the model decreases. Most non-AI aircraft have one level of detail, getting a bunch of these kind of aircraft on screen at one time would likely make FS unusable as the framerates would drop dramatically.

I agree with you 100% on point A, but as for point B, I don't know about the rest of the users here but I cannot stand the default MS models. Maybe we can compromise by using a UI model with a polycount that won't sting that bad?

And what about the airports guys? Are we going to stick to KBIH or does anyone else have any other suggestions? I still think we should hold it at an European airport...
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
yooyoo
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Thu May 26, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 24):
And what about the airports guys? Are we going to stick to KBIH or does anyone else have any other suggestions? I still think we should hold it at an European airport...

Sure, but it will have to be a US location if we are going to have Zak be our "tourguide" Big grin

Maybe LAS?

Andreas  spin 
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timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 27, 2005 11:20 pm

A.Net Airlines should be able to provide a server for hosting the multiplayer. Our man's investigating it now  Smile
A.Net Airlines - 2 million miles!
 
synakus
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Fri May 27, 2005 11:29 pm

Excellent!

Should I go out and buy a headset for the live atc?
 
SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 28, 2005 12:36 am

Synakus : Don't do anything yet  Wink

I still have to read up the ATC Simulator 2 manual and test connecting to FS and get someone to test with me to see if it works ok.

-SA006
Proudly South African
 
synakus
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 28, 2005 4:32 am

Well I think i'm going to get one anyways, and make an account with Vatsim!

I have never tried online play with FS9...
 
KBOS
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 28, 2005 5:05 am

I've never played online either but love the idea.

This might be my excuse to finally get a new pc.
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timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sat May 28, 2005 7:37 am

What's happened to Tbar so that we can finalise it?
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qr332
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting Timjohns (Reply 31):
What's happened to Tbar so that we can finalise it?

I'll PM him...
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Mir
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 2:43 am

I'm up for doing ATC as well. I use FSNavigator and ATC Radarscreen, so I can control anywhere in the world, and I can also share duties with SA006. Just let me know when the event will be so that I can see if it fits into my schedule (which is somewhat fluid at the moment).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
FiddleSticks
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 3:05 am

Here is some poly count info so we can have some idea of what kind of impact on frame rates some aircraft will have vs. others...

LOD stands for Levels Of Detail, ie. as you get further away from the model it becomes less complex, using fewer polys

Default:
734 5058 polys 9 LODs
744 6493 polys 7 LODs
773 5401 polys 8 LODs
C172 5252 polys 15 LODs
Baron 5119 polys 11 LODs
Bravo 9753 polys 6 LODs
King Air 5709 polys 16 LODs
Lear 45 13812 polys 6 LODs

Random selection of some of the more popular third party aircraft. None have the LOD feature.

FFX 733 17534 polys
KH 73G 20070 polys
POSKY 744 23251 polys
POSKY 752 23457 polys
POSKY 763V4 32262 polys
Meljet 772 41780 polys
iFDG A319 35375 polys
iFDG A320 39582 polys
iFDG A321 35877 polys
iFDG MD11 49026 polys
SGA D9S 17978 polys
SGA D10 29217 polys
Vistaliners 722 29460 polys
Project Fokker F100 55999 polys  eyepopping 

Kelly  spin 
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FiddleSticks
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 3:22 am

This might be a good place to meet for our fly-in. I'm going to be in there so if anyone wants to join me you're welcome to do so.

http://bn.turbulentsky.com/

The instructions to join are there too.
If you love yourself, go now to western union and send me the sum of $10,000 to save your life.
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 4:18 am

Shall I stick a sign-up form on the webpage so that you ATC guys know what you are expecting? I presume you'll need a/c type, ETA and departure a/p as a minimum, as well as how many are coming.
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tbar220
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 2:34 pm

Hey, sorry I dissapeared, FS2004 hadn't been running to well on my parents computer but I'm back to my own place now. Problem is I will be out of the country from June 1 - 10, so we should (if there is still enough interest) do this after the tenth, cause I still want to do it. I think we should make it a regular event, to different, interesting airports.
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SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 3:33 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 33):
I use FSNavigator and ATC Radarscreen, so I can control anywhere in the world, and I can also share duties with SA006.

Mir , can you give me a link for the download? I'm going to try out the ATC Sim (As soon as I get my Internet up on my new comp) but I think its a bit harder. Maybe FSNavigator and ATC Radarscreen would be better options. Oh and are there text options? We need to send text to those who don't have mics.

Quoting Timjohns (Reply 36):
presume you'll need a/c type, ETA and departure a/p as a minimum, as well as how many are coming.

That would alot help yes.

-SA006  wave 
Proudly South African
 
Mir
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 5:53 pm

Quoting Timjohns (Reply 36):
Shall I stick a sign-up form on the webpage so that you ATC guys know what you are expecting? I presume you'll need a/c type, ETA and departure a/p as a minimum, as well as how many are coming.

Actually, it's not really necessary for me to have that info far in advance. What normally happens is that people give me a flight plan through the FS multiplayer chat that contains their aircraft type, desired route, desired altitude, etc. That's pretty much all that's required.

That said, it would be good to know where this event is going to be so that I can get some charts out. And if you have some routes that you know you want to fly, it never hurts to let the ATCs know early. But it's not absolutely required.

And the more pilots the merrier. I've been longing to do a big session for a while now.

Some nice links to know:

1) www.goteamspeak.com This is for Teamspeak, the voice client that has become pretty much standard outside of VATSIM. It's free, and very easy to use. Just download the client version from the Quick Downloads section at the right side of the page. You'll need a microphone to talk (doesn't have to be an expensive one - mine cost $10 and has served me admirably for more than a year now), but even if you don't have one, download the program anyway so that the ATCs can talk to you instead of having to type (you'll have to type to them, but there isn't too much of that in the air, so it shouldn't be a big problem).

2) www.fsnavigator.com This is for FSNavigator, which is, IMHO, the best program for ATC that exists today. It costs 35 euro to register, but you get a free trial period of 20 uses (one use is one session of FS in which you start FSNavigator), which should be plenty to get through. FSNavigator is also an amazingly easy to use database of navigational information that I use for flight planning. You can create flight plans with SIDs and STARs and then send them to the FS flight planner so that the default FS ATC won't yell at you for flying a SID or STAR that you didn't put into your flight plan (I do this a lot). It's definately worth the investment.

3) http://www.joenetwork.de/manuel/products/atc_radar_screen.htm This is for ATC Radar Screen, which is a free ATC program that is also very good. It has some advantages over FSNavigator (for instance, the ability to see the FS chat window, the ability to process flight plans, and the ability to see taxiway identifiers at airports), but also some disadvantages (you can only control one airport or center at a time, and it's more difficult to find information such as frequencies and which VOR is which in a particular area). But it's still worth the download. It's also a bit more complicated to install, but the manual provides pretty clear instructions.

I can offer some more tips for interacting with online ATC if people are interested, and if we can agree on a location for the fly-in, SA006 and I can work out some procedures and publish them so that you know more of what to expect.

EDIT: One more thing: when planning a time, we should take into account the different time zones for where we all are. I'll be in Central European Time (UTC +2) for the next few weeks, then on US Eastern Time (UTC -4).

-Mir

[Edited 2005-05-29 10:54:52]
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
qr332
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 7:50 pm

We should have it around 5:00 PM GMT - It will be morning for the US, evening for Europe, and night for Asia. We should have it on a Saturday or Sunday though, so that people will be free enouh for it.

Lets say 11th of June, starts 5:00 GMT?

Also, how are we going to set up a TS server and where? On the A.Net airlines website?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:11 pm

Quoting SA006 (Reply 38):
That would alot help yes.

I'll get onto it then.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 40):
Also, how are we going to set up a TS server and where? On the A.Net airlines website?

Yes, I'll let him know it's for 11th June and get details out.
A.Net Airlines - 2 million miles!
 
Q330
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 9:21 pm

This sounds fun, I'd love to join. The only problem is that 1700 GMT is 0300 local time for me. zzz  If it was a bit earlier, more like 1400 GMT, it would be morning in the US, afternoon in Europe and only midnight here. I might be able to handle that. Silly

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Sun May 29, 2005 9:27 pm

A.Net Airlines - 2 million miles!
 
SA006
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 12:25 am

QR332 , I feel the 11th of June may be too near. Still alot to be done.

We'll discuss the date after everything is sorted I think.

-SA006  wave 
Proudly South African
 
Mir
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:28 am

Just so you guys know, KBIH has no ILS approaches. Brush up on your VOR skills, because that's the only way you're getting into the airport in IFR conditions.

And also, BIH has no control tower, so if we're really up for realism, there should be no tower or ground at BIH (airports with towers should have service, of course). IFR clearances are by telephone (so we'll probably do it via chatbox in the game, unless someone has a different idea).

Thirdly, regarding dates: if it isn't the 11th, I won't be free until two weekends after that (25th/26th I think it is).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
timjohns
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:55 am

Maybe we should change venue??
A.Net Airlines - 2 million miles!
 
tbar220
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 2:16 am

Timjohns,

I like the venue, it has some very nice scenery in the area. I thought it would be fun to do some of the more remote areas to see new things. If we want, we can go further north to Reno-Tahoe which has a tower and ILS. Otherwise, weather in the area in the summer is typically clear, and dry.

BTW, I really like what you've done promoting the idea. The website is good, and I still have to check out those links you posted.

[Edited 2005-05-29 19:16:37]
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Mir
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RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting Timjohns (Reply 46):
Maybe we should change venue??

Well, here's the situation about the airport:

It's in a pit, strictly speaking. There are mountains all around, and thus normal straight-in approaches are pretty much out of the question. There are two approaches - the VOR-A and the VOR/DME-B. Both have equivalent GPS functions, but the default GPS in FS isn't good enough to fly GPS approaches (I think). Neither one leads to a runway, so you'll have to see the airport and make a visual landing to whatever the favored runway is. Thus, the minimums are quite high.

The VOR-A starts directly above the field, where the pilot descends in a holding pattern to 12,000 (a little less than 8,000 feet above field elevation), then proceeds outbound on a VOR radial for a procedure turn, then back to the airport to make the visual landing, all the while remaining within 10 miles of the VOR. Not too complicated, but things will be happening pretty fast while you're wondering where the mountains are.

The VOR-B is a straight in approach that starts 22 miles away and follows a radial to the airport for the visual landing. The initial part of the approach isn't hard at all, but towards the end you have to lose 4000 feet in 5 miles, which is a lot, and probably more than anything bigger than a bizjet can handle.

It could be really fun (and it also could be no problem at all if the weather is good), but brush up on the IFR skills. No approach mode on the autpilot here - the descent is manual. Any questions, feel free to ask me.

We could also change the venue if people are freaked out by those descriptions.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
timjohns
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 am

RE: Airliners.net FS2004 Fly-In?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:05 am

It depends what people want to fly out there - a 744 sounds out of the question from your description Mir  Silly

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 47):
BTW, I really like what you've done promoting the idea. The website is good, and I still have to check out those links you posted.

No problem.  Smile
A.Net Airlines - 2 million miles!

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