airfly
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:43 am

SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:48 am

Hello guys,

I have recently started flying online but the biggest problem are the SID and STAR's!
When I ask for clearance, I normally get the controller talking about the SID or STAR. I cannot select an SID or STAR on my FS flight Plan so I haven't got a clue where to go before I can follow my normal route such as VOR's, Airways, intersections and others.

Could someone please help me out with this awful problem which limits me of flying...
I need to know what are SID, STAR's and, how to follow them when ATC tells me to.

Cheers
Lucca M.
L - I - B - E - R - A - L
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:49 am

SID (Standard Instrument Departure) and STAR (Standard Terminal ARrivals) are, as you would guess, standardized routes into and out of congested airspace, put there to take some of the workload off of the controllers.

As for how to fly them, there are several ways of doing it in FS:

1) The Agonizing but Cheap Way: You'll need to find the chart for the appropriate SID or STAR. VATSIM sites will have a lot of them (www.vatsim.net, and then search the appropriate region, country, etc.). Once you've done that, you can load each of the waypoints into the FS flight planner and have the GPS follow it. There are several reasons why I don't recommend you do this. Firstly, it's a real pain in the ass and takes a long time. Secondly, in all probability there will be a point or two along the SID or STAR that don't exist in the FS planner for whatever reason, and thus you're kind of stuck. Thirdly, some SIDs require vectors to a certain point. You can't exactly plan for vectors, and when you get cleared direct to your first fix, putting that into the GPS will throw out your entire route (did I mention the FS flight planner and GPS suck?)

2) The Perhaps Difficult to Learn But Highly Rewarding Way: For this way, you'll also need a chart for the SID or STAR. Once you've got that, you can follow it to the end, and then engage your GPS route. You'll need to know how to track VORs, NDBs, and intercept VOR radials, etc, which is what makes this difficult for some people. Tracking direct to a VOR is one thing - flying a heading to intercept a radial is another. However, you will come away from it a much better pilot, and you'll never have trouble with instrument flight again.

3) The Easy but Costly Way: Get FSNavigator from www.fsnavigator.com. It allows you to create a flightplan with SIDs or STARs and import it to your flight planner and fly them with the GPS. A few downsides to this: 1) FS Navigator is a fantastic program, but it is payware. 2) You'll still have the problem with vectors that I mentioned earlier. 3) Not all SIDs are included in FSNavigator (mostly the ones that are almost entirely vectors - JFK for instance).

4) The Whimpy Way: Inform ATC that you are unable to fly a SID or STAR. You'll have to tell them about the STAR, but you can file your flight plan with "NO DP" in the comments section, indicating that you are unable to fly a SID. You'll probably irritate the ATC and perhaps wind up in a holding pattern somewhere, but you won't have to worry about anything. If the ATC is nice, they may offer to vector you along the SID or STAR, and you should by all means accept the offer, but you should never ask for them to do that - it makes you look like you're extremely lazy, and they're likely to take out their frustrations on your fuel load.  Wink

Personally, I recommend option #2. You can use the autopilot for it - you'll just have to be more involved during the departure and arrival phases. But heck, that's what realism is all about, isn't it?  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MADtoCAE
Posts: 1094
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:32 pm

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:54 am

Airfly, sorry I coulnt help you more.
Mir, fantastic explanation! Btw I thought STAR was standard terminal arrival route?
Operator!!! Give me the number for 911!!
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting MADtoCAE (Reply 2):
I thought STAR was standard terminal arrival route?

Could be. My Jeppesen binder has it as Standard Terminal Arrival, but I could be mistaken.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
airfly
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:43 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:29 am

Mir,

That was great! Thanks for the patience.
I shall try Number 2 and Find charts for the airport I am flying.  Smile

MADtoCAE,

Thanks for that MSN help...

Cheers
Lucca M.
L - I - B - E - R - A - L
 
airfly
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:43 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:58 am

Hello,

Can anyone tell me a good website to find SID Charts?

Cheers
Lucca M.
L - I - B - E - R - A - L
 
A3204eva
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:25 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:38 am

STAR stands for Standard Terminal Arrival Route  Smile

www.ais.org.uk is where u can get real charts for the UK (SID, STARs Airways, gnd charts etc etc)

If I have an a/c that can't fly a SID I tell them to route dct to the end point of the SID. e.g WAL1Y from EGCC, I'd say "BAW123, route direct to Wallasey, climb FLxx"

Scott  Smile
"They have lady pilots......... they're not that good, but they have 'em"
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting Airfly (Reply 5):
Can anyone tell me a good website to find SID Charts?

As Scott said. www.ais.org.uk for the UK (you'll have to register). Though if anyone knows of a better place to get approach charts, I'd appreciate hearing about it - the ones from there suck (SID and STAR charts are pretty decent though)

www.aeroplanner.com for the US (go to Flight Planning and then Approach Plates)

Elsewhere in the world, I've found the various VATSIM sites to be pretty useful, though the quality of the charts will vary.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
airfly
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:43 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:14 am

Thanks Mir,

I am really looking for an EBBR SID chart... But nothing so far.

Where can I find them?

Cheers
Lucca M.
L - I - B - E - R - A - L
 
A3204eva
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:25 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:59 am

"They have lady pilots......... they're not that good, but they have 'em"
 
airfly
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:43 am

RE: SID And STAR, Help Please!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:32 pm

Great A3204eva!

Thanks alot!  Smile

Cheers
Lucca M.
L - I - B - E - R - A - L

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