speedbird747BA
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The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:00 am

Alright, Im going to start another one of these, except this one will be better organized from the start, and will also be a lot harder.

Here are the rules:

1. No using autoland. A cockpit view must be submitted as well to ensure this rule is upheld.

2. The aircraft you use must be either a ERJ 145/140/135 or a CRJ 200/700. This rule cannot and will not be changed.

3. The landing must be made at SXM.

4. The wind should be coming from exactly due west, the landing should be made at night, during the 'heavy storm' weather scenario. As well, add fog, and put visibility at 1/2 mile. The wind should be at 35 knots.

5. Show the finals, touchdown, and a bit of your role out in the video.

6. Maximum of 2 videos submitted.


These will be graded on finals and touchdown smoothness.

Any questions?

Happy Landings!!

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
Marquis
Posts: 251
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:06 am

That rules should make for some interesting and awesome videos. Just a question on the type of aircraft: I own the ERJ 135BJ Legacy from FeelThere, so is that one allowed in the contest?
Riding the radials...
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Marquis (Reply 1):
I own the ERJ 135BJ Legacy

ERJ 135 is allowed, as it sayus in the starter.

Happy Landings!!

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
Marquis
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 2):
Quoting Marquis (Reply 1):
I own the ERJ 135BJ Legacy

ERJ 135 is allowed, as it sayus in the starter.

I wasn't quite sure about that as it is a business jet. It's better to be safe than sorry in the end.  Smile
Riding the radials...
 
MidEx216
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:32 am

I would love to take part in this, but how do I get the video? What program can I use?
 
Mir
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
As well, add fog, and put visibility at 1/2 mile.

Which would put the airport below minimums (780ft ceiling and 4500m visibility). There's difficult, and then there's just downright unrealistic.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
GBOAE
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting MidEx216 (Reply 4):
I would love to take part in this, but how do I get the video? What program can I use?

Use a program called fraps. Download from http://www.fraps.com/
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Which would put the airport below minimums (780ft ceiling and 4500m visibility). There's difficult, and then there's just downright unrealistic.

Unrealistic? Hardly. Ive landed with in the Swiss Alps with vis below that. Its quite possible, trust me.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
MidEx216
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting GBOAE (Reply 6):
Use a program called fraps

Going there now, thank you

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Which would put the airport below minimums (780ft ceiling and 4500m visibility). There's difficult, and then there's just downright unrealistic.

Just makes it more of a challenge. I'd much rather do this than just a boring, no wind, clear skies landing. Just wait for me to paint my plane, and my submission will be in Big grin
 
Mir
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 7):
Unrealistic? Hardly. Ive landed with in the Swiss Alps with vis below that. Its quite possible, trust me.

I'm not doubting that it's possible, but I think it would be more fun to have a challenge that wouldn't get your license revoked in an instant (if not killed)were you to try it in the real world. There are those types of approaches out there.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MidEx216
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:34 pm

Uhh, my attempt yielded nothing to show; it was so dark, you could barely even see the lights on the plane.
 
Marquis
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Which would put the airport below minimums (780ft ceiling and 4500m visibility). There's difficult, and then there's just downright unrealistic.

-Mir

I thought about that, too last night. TCNM's RWY 9 is not ILS equipped so it is pretty hard to align with the centerline and to judge the right sinkrate in this low visibility.

Otherwise, there is a file on avsim.com which implements an ILS to TNCM via the AFCAD file. Here's the link: http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=67989
Riding the radials...
 
Mir
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Marquis (Reply 11):
TCNM's RWY 9 is not ILS equipped

TNCM isn't ILS-equipped at all, so you have to use the VOR approach to 9. Of course, since the wind is coming from the west, you'd have a tailwind (of at least 35 knots, according to the rules), and circling to 27 is not authorized.

Can one do it? Sure, in FS. But try it in real life and you'd have a lot of problems, and I'm not talking about the regulatory ones.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Marquis
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:34 am

VOR/DME approach in these conditions? No way you will get down safely. Kyle, what about a better visibility?

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
Can one do it? Sure, in FS. But try it in real life and you'd have a lot of problems, and I'm not talking about the regulatory ones.

You mean the landing on the 27 or the whole scenario with an RWY 9 VOR/DME approach?
Riding the radials...
 
jamesbuk
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:38 am

Ah come on you wusses, just give it a couple of trys before you knock it!

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
Marquis
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:48 am

Well I tried it, but it is simply no fun to fly in almost 0 visibility. Although I really like crosswinds when landing. Solely purpose: "To separate the men from the boys."
Riding the radials...
 
jamesbuk
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:02 am

Ok ive just spent 40 minutes trying to land, its effectively impossible. I've crashed into the hotel on one side, the bar on the other, etc etc.

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
Mir
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 16):
Ok ive just spent 40 minutes trying to land, its effectively impossible. I've crashed into the hotel on one side, the bar on the other, etc etc.

Ready to knock it now?  Smile

I tried it, and flying the approach isn't too hard, even with the winds, but the visibility is the killer - there's just no way to fly a VOR approach to 1/2 mile visibility.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
there's just no way to fly a VOR approach to 1/2 mile visibility

I've never seen a VOR approach with less than 1 1/2 mi vis minima.

Although most ILS go down to 1/2 mi vis so doing the AFCAD mod would be a way around it...
 
Cessna057
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:15 am

Look guys. Its not impossible. I just put a greaser down the 2nd time I tried. Its not hard it can easily be done in FS. But I'm unsure as to how to get Fraps to record a video, can somebody please tell me how to use it?

[Edited 2007-01-19 02:46:09]
Hold it . . . Hold it . . . HOLD THE FREAKIN NOSE UP!!
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:46 am

OK, reconsidering vis, though now I think you are all wusses. Ill get one landed, and put it on here so you all can eat your words.  Wink Now, try 1.5 mile vis, and ill give you the added benefit of trying at dawn. But to increase the challeng, Ill up the wind to 45 knots. Essentially, you are landing in the carribean, at dawn, in the middle of a tropical storm.

Have fun, and Happy Landings!!

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
alaska737
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 20):
OK, reconsidering vis, though now I think you are all wusses.

I want to see you make this landing. If you really want a challange, land the jet of your choice at Unalaska in a storm.
 
Cessna057
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:11 pm

I'm sorry to bitch, but i CANNOT get fraps to work. I have the framerate counter up, its really glitchy, and whenever i press F9 it like turns red for a second and then turns back to yellow and doesnt record anything..
Hold it . . . Hold it . . . HOLD THE FREAKIN NOSE UP!!
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 21):
I want to see you make this landing. If you really want a challange, land the jet of your choice at Unalaska in a storm.

Done. Ill do it tonight, and post it then pal.


Let me take this oppurtunity to thank all those that posted or will post in this or the last of these threads for making this a success. Thank You.

Happy Landings!!

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
BAW076
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:33 pm

SXM is boring. You see and hear about it too much in the FS world.

Why not try landing at the old Hong Kong Airport (Kai Tak). Landing IGS Runway 13 with poor visibility etc?

Surely that is more of a challenge and probably much more satisfying when completed without any hitches than SXM!?!
N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
 
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LTU932
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting BAW076 (Reply 24):
Why not try landing at the old Hong Kong Airport (Kai Tak). Landing IGS Runway 13 with poor visibility etc?

Or how about a crosswind visual landing in FNC or hell, Lukla in Nepal, or even a Runway 25 visual approach into SJO (I have the procedure for the BELEN25 procedure for the Runway 25 visual approach, if anyone is interested)?  Wink
 
ACDC8
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:21 am

Kyle,

Between the 2 threads you have started on Landing Contests, not once have we seen a video submitted by you, the "judge". Yet you claim to make all these perfect "greasers" in unrealistic conditions, I'm not doubting you're ability to do this, but without any evidence it's hard to take these contests seriously.

Also, you're rules, such as only using aircraft xxx and xxx is quite confusing at best. For example, in the other thread you said we could use the A340 but did not mention the A330. When asked if we could use the A330, you said no, because "you didn't like it", you may have found that comment amusing and maybe were not serious about it, but that makes these contests even less appealing.

I'm not trying to critisize you, but I do believe that you would get more serious responses if you came up with more realisitic rules and definitions such as these:

1) Must use the same aircraft (such as the B737 as most of us have FS experience in this aircraft and is readily available. Also this way, the landing can be better judged by looking at the airspeed, flap settings, etc.)
2) Must use the same airport and runway (standard approaches or more difficult.)
3) Weather must be set the same way (Vis=minimums...NOT LESS, wind must be set at coming from a certain direction at a certain speed, i.e: 270 degrees at 30 kts.)
4) Time must be set at a certain time.
5) Autopilot may be used to establish the ILS (if applicable) and must be turned off once the glideslope is captured.
6) Video must show the landing (approach, touchdown and roll-out) from the exterior and cockpit.
7) The "judge" or contest initiater must post the first video as an example. This also enables the contestents to verify that the "judge" is qualified through his/her own ability to make a sound judgement and define more clearly, what the contestents should be trying to aim for.

These are just a few ideas that you may want to consider in starting any contests. But you do need to be a bit more realistic with your rules.

Patrick
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
4. The wind should be coming from exactly due west, the landing should be made at night, during the 'heavy storm' weather scenario. As well, add fog, and put visibility at 1/2 mile. The wind should be at 35 knots.

This would be suicide in real life. No plane would ever land there with these conditions.
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:45 am

However I did try it because it is a simulator after all. After I broke out of the fog and saw lights, I was heading right toward the hotel on the left side of the Easterly runway. I had enough time to maneuver and land on the centerline about 2000 feet down the runway. No video, don't have money to pay for full fraps and my graphics can't handle it.
 
jamesbuk
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

I couldnt agree more!

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):
Between the 2 threads you have started on Landing Contests, not once have we seen a video submitted by you, the "judge". Yet you claim to make all these perfect "greasers" in unrealistic conditions, I'm not doubting you're ability to do this, but without any evidence it's hard to take these contests seriously.



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):
7) The "judge" or contest initiater must post the first video as an example. This also enables the contestents to verify that the "judge" is qualified through his/her own ability to make a sound judgement and define more clearly, what the contestents should be trying to aim for.






Done.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):
But you do need to be a bit more realistic with your rules.

Guys, settle down. This is just sim, and the only reason I even did this was for you guys to have a bit of fun. Seriously, lighten up (oxymoron not intended  Big grin ).

The rules I cited in the starter and in reply 20 will stand.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):
1) Must use the same aircraft (such as the B737 as most of us have FS experience in this aircraft and is readily available. Also this way, the landing can be better judged by looking at the airspeed, flap settings, etc.)

I want people to have some leeway, this is it.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 26):
4) Time must be set at a certain time.

Dude, the time IS at a specific time. If you go to SXM, move the setting to dawn, and dont change the date, the time will be the same.


Lighten up, have a bit of fun with it all man!  Smile


Happy Landings!!


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
ACDC8
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 30):

As I said, I wasn't trying to critisize you, but I do feel your rules need to be a bit more consistent and realistic.

Also, you're video's don't seem to be working, at least on my computer. Anyone else not able to see them?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
BAW076
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:11 pm

I can't see them either...

Kinda strange that eh Patrick?!  rotfl 
N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
 
FlightShadow
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):

Don't they usually shut down SXM during hurricanes?  confused  I flew out to SXM from SJU ... couldn't find the runway, said "skrew it," flew back to SJU and landed. Better weather there  Smile

I could post the video of that if you want...
"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
 
CPH813
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:03 pm

Okay looks like i'm the first (second of Kyles' videos work)



How hard can it be?? Big grin  duck 
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:08 am

Hmmmm......

How do I get the videos to show up? Im sorry, but Im completely ignorant here. When I submitted to youtue, they uploaded but then failed to be processed because it said 'codec not supported', so instead I made I used the same embed code, but made a link onto my harddrive (C:Program Filessxm outer.avi) instead of the internet URL address. Anyone know how to fix this, cany uo help me? Id like to put all doubts as to my ability to rest, and give an example.


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
ACDC8
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 35):
How do I get the videos to show up? Im sorry, but Im completely ignorant here. When I submitted to youtue, they uploaded but then failed to be processed because it said 'codec not supported', so instead I made I used the same embed code, but made a link onto my harddrive (C:Program Filessxm outer.avi) instead of the internet URL address. Anyone know how to fix this, cany uo help me? Id like to put all doubts as to my ability to rest, and give an example

Wish I could help you on that one, but I don't have that much experience with youtube.

Also, you might want to change the time of day on your rules, as you can see with CPH813's example, you can't really see anything ...  Wink

Quoting BAW076 (Reply 32):
I can't see them either...

Kinda strange that eh Patrick?!

Oh good, I thought my computer was acting up again ... Big grin

Where's your submission Chris? I'd submit one, but I'll save myself the embarrassment of ditching the aircraft in the water ...  rotfl 
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 35):
Also, you might want to change the time of day on your rules, as you can see with CPH813's example, you can't really see anything ...

You can see it all in my vid, but whatever.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
ACDC8
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 37):
You can see it all in my vid, but whatever.

Not trying to dis you, just want your thread to be succsessful with a few tips.

Patrick
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
BAW076
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:14 am

RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 36):
Where's your submission Chris?

There isn't one.

The rules are too stupid.
N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: The Ultimately Difficult Plane Landing Contest

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 38):
Not trying to dis you, just want your thread to be succsessful with a few tips.

Yeah, I know. No hard feelings!  Smile


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?

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