Bofredrik
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What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:19 am

It would be interesting to know what Microsoft thinks about FSX so far.
It has been out for a while know...
Is FSX a sucess or a failure from Microsoft:s point of view?
What could be, it any, a mistake done by the company?
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:33 am

Just my opinion, but I don't think that FSX is doing as well as MS may have hoped. Mainly because it's just putting too much of a strain on computer systems today. I know of many people who have bought it, tried it and uninstalled it because the framerates they are getting are very unenjoyable.

Basically, I think it is selling well, but it's not being used as much as MS had hoped.

[Edited 2007-06-04 00:34:23]
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Bofredrik
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:22 pm

FSX need DirectX 10 and that is not out yet i think...
It is strange...
 
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nighthawk
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 1):
I know of many people who have bought it, tried it and uninstalled it because the framerates they are getting are very unenjoyable.

.. the part in bold is the only part MS give a damn about.....
 
jamesbaldwyn
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 3):
the part in bold is the only part MS give a damn about

True. As they are in a monopoly in FS.
 
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 4):
True. As they are in a monopoly in FS.

No they aren't - theres many different flight sim products out there.

However, once you have purchased MS FS, Microsoft has its pound of flesh, its not getting much more from you whether you use its product or not, whether you switch to another product or not.

Pretty sure thats Nighthawks point.
 
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 2):
FSX need DirectX 10 and that is not out yet i think...

whoever gave you that fairytale story? FSX is a DirectX 9 application. An update to offer optimisation for systems running Vista and DX10 is planned for after DX10 is released, but it works perfectly well on XP and DX9.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 1):
Mainly because it's just putting too much of a strain on computer systems today

All FS versions have always done that. Problem is kids get ever more selfish and ever more liable to scream they've been cheated when in fact they've not been.
The vast majority of people with serious performance problems have only themselves to blame, thinking they can run FSX on 5 year old hardware that was marginal for FS2004 and get performance matching or exceeding FS2004.

Some people with newer (2-3 years old) hardware also got a nasty surprise as FSX is no longer purely CPU bound but GPU bound and for years FS players have somewhat forgotten about videocards in favour of CPU power as that would give them a higher performance boost per dollar.

With FSX the game has changed as it is now both CPU bound AND GPU bound, probably even more the latter than the former if you're running at high resolution (1600x1200 or better).
As many FS users have machines with relatively (to the rest of the hardware) underpowered videocards, they're taking a more serious hit than they'd expected.

Also, the service pack offered recently for FSX has had a quite marked influence on performance, especially on multi-core and multi-CPU systems. Some people report 50-100% better performance.
Personally I don't see that much but I do see roughly 25% higher performance combined with smoother graphics displaying higher detail, a tradeoff I'm more than willing to make.
With the service pack FSX now outperforms FS2004 on my hardware, while having far better graphics and flight dynamics, just as FS2004 did with FS2002 on my previous computer.
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ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 5):
No they aren't - theres many different flight sim products out there

Such as? I can think of many add ons that require MSFS, but I can't think of too many other non MSFS that are stand alone programs.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 6):
All FS versions have always done that. Problem is kids get ever more selfish and ever more liable to scream they've been cheated when in fact they've not been.
The vast majority of people with serious performance problems have only themselves to blame, thinking they can run FSX on 5 year old hardware that was marginal for FS2004 and get performance matching or exceeding FS2004.

Not true. In the past, it's been very easy to run the new versions of MS on the same computer you've been running the previous version on with no problems what so ever.

The performance requirements (in order to get FSX to run as well as FS2004) on your computer has never seen such a wide gap with previous FS generations.
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7):
Such as? I can think of many add ons that require MSFS, but I can't think of too many other non MSFS that are stand alone programs.

Flight Gear
X-Plane
YS Flight
Fly!

... to name but a few.

Just because Microsoft FS is the predominant simulator in a subsection of a market, it doesn't make it a monopoly - X-Plane has numerous add ons and extensions, but if you weren't using X-Plane then you wouldn't know about them.
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 8):
Flight Gear
X-Plane
YS Flight
Fly!

I've never heard of YS or Flight Gear. I'll have to google them later and take a peek ....  Wink

Quoting Moo (Reply 8):
X-Plane has numerous add ons and extensions, but if you weren't using X-Plane then you wouldn't know about them.

But does the add ons available for X-Plane (or any other FS) even come close to that of MSFS?
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9):
But does the add ons available for X-Plane (or any other FS) even come close to that of MSFS?

X-Plane is used by certain companies in both non-motion and full-motion simulators certified for flight instruction by the FAA.

X-Plane is also used by various companies in flight testing designs (Scaled Composites for one).

X-Plane doesn't use lookup tables for the bulk of its simulation, its actually calculated on the fly based on simulated airflow over airfoils and body sections.

The quality of its 'add ons' in comparison to MSFS entirely depend on which end of the 'Flight Sim'/'Game' spectrum you personally reside - there are better games out there than MSFS and there are better simulators out there than MSFS.

If you are interested in actual simulation, X-Plane is certainly worth the $50  Smile
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
The quality of its 'add ons' in comparison to MSFS entirely depend on which end of the 'Flight Sim'/'Game' spectrum you personally reside - there are better games out there than MSFS and there are better simulators out there than MSFS.

That may be, but do the amount (not quality) of add ons for X-Plane or any other FS, come close to matching the amount of add ons for MSFS?

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
If you are interested in actual simulation, X-Plane is certainly worth the $50

To be honest, I don't use FS as much as I used to. But if I do, I want to have an experience as real as possible, but that doesn't just mean the flight model. I like to have the scenery as real as possible, the airlines as real as possible and the flight procedures as real as possible. And with the amount of add on's available for MSFS, I believe they do have the market on flight simulation.
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):
That may be, but do the amount (not quality) of add ons for X-Plane or any other FS, come close to matching the amount of add ons for MSFS?

I don't know as to the amount, as while I do use FS I don't use it to the extent that I use X-Plane, and I prefer quality to overloading myself with quantity.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):

To be honest, I don't use FS as much as I used to. But if I do, I want to have an experience as real as possible, but that doesn't just mean the flight model. I like to have the scenery as real as possible, the airlines as real as possible and the flight procedures as real as possible.

X-Plane comes with 60GB of scenery included in the $50 list price, and its as good as any Ive seen for FS.

Check out this link for an example: http://www.global-scenery.org/KSAN/index.html

X-Plane will grab the current weather and conditions for your route off the internet as well.
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 12):

Looks impressive, but I've got MSFS and I've been using it for over 20 years, so I guess old habits die hard ....  Wink  Big grin
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 13):

Looks impressive, but I've got MSFS and I've been using it for over 20 years, so I guess old habits die hard ....

I agree theres little payback for the effort of learning a new sim if you currently like FS and have been using it for ages  Smile
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 6):
With the service pack FSX now outperforms FS2004 on my hardware, while having far better graphics and flight dynamics, just as FS2004 did with FS2002 on my previous computer.

So just to have a frame of reference, what sort of hardware ARE you using currently?
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Bofredrik
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:11 pm

I still think that it has never been so little difference between two FS
versions like FS9 and FS10 if you compare what you see on the screen.

That most of us needs to buy new computer for FS10 is just crazy...

Summary:

You get almost nothing new with FSX.
Sorry.
You get a new computer.
But for what?
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 16):
I still think that it has never been so little difference between two FS
versions like FS9 and FS10 if you compare what you see on the screen.

That most of us needs to buy new computer for FS10 is just crazy...

Summary:

You get almost nothing new with FSX.
Sorry.
You get a new computer.
But for what?

I disagree completely on that. The differences between FS9 and FSX are overwhelming, however, not many of us (myself included) can see the differences because we simply don't have the hardware to run FSX hard enough to see the differences.
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jamesbaldwyn
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
I disagree completely on that. The differences between FS9 and FSX are overwhelming, however, not many of us (myself included) can see the differences because we simply don't have the hardware to run FSX hard enough to see the differences.

Exactly. They say that FSX's sliders set at half way is pretty much FS9 on ultra high. Give it a year or two and the hardware will be out and people will have better systems to play the power hungry beast.
 
Burkhard
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:47 pm

The difference between in FSX and FS9 is extremely large, in contents and grafics. But if you load FSX with FS9 addons, you cannt see anything of it - all add ons have to be remade from scratch, with much harder to use tools, with lot more details, to take advantage of FSX. In my experience, I have created about 20 FSX aircrafts now, the time you need for FSX design is 10 times the time needed for FS9 - that is why most of the addons for FSX will remain FS9 or even FS8 based, and people will complain they do not see anything more than before ....

But to the original question: Microsoft has cared for FSX a lot, there would not be a service pack so fats with so many improvements.
 
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 6):
With the service pack FSX now outperforms FS2004 on my hardware, while having far better graphics and flight dynamics, just as FS2004 did with FS2002 on my previous computer.

I know some have had enormous success with FSX Sp1, me being one of them. I won't go so far as to say FSX runs better than FS9 now, but I am getting very nice frames (20-30 at SFO airport). With FS9 I can get 50-60FPS. But some say they had a 1-2 FPS increase in performance and the sim still ran like crap even after they installed SP1. To those people you HAVE to do a FULL uninstall of FSX, then reinstall it, then run FSX to build the scenery databases and indexes, THEN install SP1. I followed these instructions exactly and I went from 7-8 FPS to 14-15 FPS at SFO airport. Whoopdedoo. Then I changed my screen resolution from 1024x768X16 to 1200X1024X32 and my FPS jumped to 35 FPS! So when I hear people saying they are still getting bad FPS in FSX I have to wonder if they have a setting wrong somewhere. The other thing to consider is maybe you have a bad RAM module or other failed hardware component that FS9 didn't need so much but FSX does. But FS9 is out the window for me now. I am using FSX exclusively now and LevelD just released their 767 today for FSX.

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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 18):

Exactly. They say that FSX's sliders set at half way is pretty much FS9 on ultra high. Give it a year or two and the hardware will be out and people will have better systems to play the power hungry beast.

And when we get the fast computer to run FSX then Microsoft will lauch FSX+1. Usually happens Big grin

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jwenting
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7):
The performance requirements (in order to get FSX to run as well as FS2004) on your computer has never seen such a wide gap with previous FS generations.

I have... Try FS2000 to FS98.
And for me FSX performs hardly worse (pre-SP1) than did FS2004. That's pretty similar to what happened when upgrading from FS2002 to FS2004.
The only time I've seen performance increase with a new version was when going from FS2000 to FS2002, and FS2000 was well understood by everyone (including Microsoft) to have been clunky. Lots of new technology pushed into service before it was quite ready.
FSX is a bit of the same, but not AS bad by far. And it's done because the customers ask/scream for it. When Microsoft released FS2004 there was a lot of badmouthing them for it being "just a patch to make FS2002 look better" (not true of course) because there were no major differences in the visuals.

Quoting Moo (Reply 8):
Flight Gear
X-Plane
YS Flight
Fly!

Flight Gear is garbish, X-Plane is no serious competitor, Fly! no longer exists, and I never heard of YS Flight.

Quoting Moo (Reply 12):
X-Plane comes with 60GB of scenery included in the $50 list price, and its as good as any Ive seen for FS.

you've not seen a lot of FS then... And that includes a lot of the default scenery. Looked at X-Plane a few years ago (and so will compare it with the FS version of the time).
Panels were complete rubbish, scenery practically non-existent, performance extremely poor. External models were blocky.
Essentially it looked about 6-8 years behind MSFS. From what I've seen in screenshots of current versions it's gotten better but that gap is still there.
So X-Plane today is roughly equivalent to FS2000 or at best FS2002.

Quoting SaturnVRocket (Reply 20):
I won't go so far as to say FSX runs better than FS9 now,

It does for me.
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chksix
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:30 pm

The conveyor belt plane will fly
 
ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7):
The performance requirements (in order to get FSX to run as well as FS2004) on your computer has never seen such a wide gap with previous FS generations.

I have... Try FS2000 to FS98.

When FS2000 came out, most computers on the market were able to handle the performance requirements of FS2000 with out any difficulty's. The hardware was available and many of us were already using it or just needed to do a few modifications such as extra RAM, etc.

However, this is not the case with FSX.
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moo
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
you've not seen a lot of FS then... And that includes a lot of the default scenery.

Ive seen a lot of FS - I have many versions of it on my software shelf, including the current one. MS FS does not include anywhere near the amount of scenery at the same price level as X-Plane.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
Looked at X-Plane a few years ago (and so will compare it with the FS version of the time).

Yes, lets all do pointless comparisons of older versions of software which bear no relation to current versions.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
So X-Plane today is roughly equivalent to FS2000 or at best FS2002.

No, X-Plane is most definitely equivalent to MS FS X in most areas, and surpassing it in other areas (the simulation is very much light years ahead of MS FS).

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
X-Plane is no serious competitor

Everyones welcome to their opinions, but yours sucks (imo of course).

I'm not trying to convert anyone here, but FS is a game, X-Plane is in a whole other class.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:18 pm

Anyone got any cockpit shots and virtual cockpit shots from X Plane?

Cheers
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ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 26):
Anyone got any cockpit shots and virtual cockpit shots from X Plane?

Just a small sample ..

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...4e9cc290de25afbd781001&showforum=4
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ACDC8
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:02 pm

You could also type in x-plane on youtube. Quiet a few impressive videos on there.
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pilotdude09
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:22 pm

Thanks guys  Smile


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jwenting
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 15):
So just to have a frame of reference, what sort of hardware ARE you using currently?

Pentium Core Duo 3.2, 2GB RAM, GF7600GT with 256MB, 19" TFT, and a bank of GoFlight controls.

So definitely not a highend system. The videocard is by current standards even lowend.

Runs FSX over water at more than the 20fps I keep it locked at, over land 10-15fps in most places even with complex aircraft like the LD767 or EagleSoft SR22.
And that in moderate clouds (in dense clouds it slows way down, as did FS2004, 3D cloud rendering is not one of MSFSs strong points, ever has been).
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jamesbaldwyn
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RE: What Do Micosoft Think Of FSX Sales & Comments?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 30):
Pentium Core Duo 3.2, 2GB RAM, GF7600GT with 256MB

Well something is wrong as I have a 2.2Ghz Dual Core, the 7600GT and 1GB RAM and I get the same as you  Smile

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