b727fan
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:54 am

Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:28 am

Hello,
As an armature player on flight simulator, I noticed that some of the downloaded airplanes (Especially the Boeing 767 family) take a Long time to become airborne. For instance, I can never take off from EWR before almost running out of runway!! Having flown in 767 out of EWR, I know that they take off way before my plane does (B767-300, reaching speeds of 160 knots, and still doesn't get airborne easily!)
By the way, the planes i have are POSKY 767's
Can anyone tell me what the reason may be? Also, turns with aircrafts, some turn nicely while others take forever!
Your advise and input is greatly appreciated.

Thank You in advance
 
9VSIO
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:29 am

Are you taking off at max fuel + load? Do you have any winds set? Both play a major factor in aircraft performance.

Not sure what you are trying to say about the turns though.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:50 am

Ckeck your flap and/or trim settings on takeoff. Regarding your turning issues, the newer version POSKY aircraft turn harder. In lieu of a turning wheel, consider using differential braking and/or single engine thrusts, in conjunction with the basic turn function on the ground
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:44 am

On the contrary I always get the feeling that the (FSX Standard) planes are taking-off way to early. Nearly no runway length is needed even with full load and fuel. Furthermore also landing distance is damn short.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:10 am



Quoting Phatfarmlines (Reply 2):
Ckeck your flap and/or trim settings on takeoff.

Thats the most common mistake during take off. If you have only lets say 3 untis trimmed, but you need 8 or so, then you need to be A LOT faster until you actually lift off. So, check for correct trim setting.
And maybe you have full load and full fuel, so that you are maybe above MTOW, and then you wont take off until a very high speed as well.
And I guess you have put in any flaps? A flapless take off isnt a good idea as well  Wink

Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 3):
On the contrary I always get the feeling that the (FSX Standard) planes are taking-off way to early.

Do you just add FULL thrust, so just hit F4 or what do you do? In real life you dont set that! You have a thrust reduction entered in the FMC but even with max thrust, you dont get all the engines can deliver! You can still overboost! And hitting F4 on the FS will give you all the engines couuld do! And in the real aircraft thats ONLY for emergencies! Like when you are about to hit a mountain or windshear! Then you overboost the engines to get what the engines can give you...

Thats what I can think of...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
tbanger
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:11 am



Quoting B727fan (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me what the reason may be?

In a real aircraft the crew calculate what trim is required for a specific c of g of the aircraft. "Probably already worked out in for them in a modern jet liner" but in the old Saab 340 it is computer calculated and printed out on a trim sheet. It may say to use 5 units of aft trim for take-off.

The same applies to POSKY aircraft and a lot of FS9/FSX aircraft. On my RFP 747-200 that I love to fly it is usually around 7.5 to 8 units of aft trim for a heavy aircraft. On my FSDZigns L749 Connie it is 15 units of aft trim for takeoff.

In a real aircraft it does two primary things.1) it allows the aircraft to rotate gently at a given "rotate" speed without too much effort and 2) prevents early rotation and subsequent tail strike.

Quoting B727fan (Thread starter):
Also, turns with aircrafts, some turn nicely while others take forever!

Back off on the joystick. Most FS9/FSX aircraft turn really sharply with about 70-75deg of turn on the nose wheel, but once you go past that the aircraft just pushes forward in a straight line. It is even worse with a significant aft C of G. I usually gradually twist the joystick (Sidewinder 2) until I get the sharp turn I am after and then keep it there. If I don't seem to be turning sharp enogh I back off a little and usually it spins on a dime.
 
Arniepie
Posts: 1429
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:00 pm

RE: Take Off Problem!

Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:14 pm

While I love the POSKY planes in general they do have some issues when it comes to real lifelike performance.
The A330, 340 and older 747 versions where the most notable ones.
Also their 767 is a bit off , certainly when it comes to take-off performance.
Usually this is a direct result of a below standard Air.ed file.

The aircraft.cfg file are rather good only the contact points are a bit odd which may lead to taxiing problems and trim setting issues.
If you adjust the weight settings for load and fuel it usually messes up the Centre of gravity (well outside specs), this is the result of their policy to put the reference point at the nose of the aircraft and not near its static cog point.
A way to work around this is to put only 1 loading point in the aircraft.cfg setting on which you put all the load-wheight, also the fuel position (tank-position) points should be near this reference point , as a result you'll see that even at MTOW the aircraft will stay within its COG-limits meaning that you won't run into trim problems.

Back to the Air.ed file, here are some more issues.
The most notable are the settings for drag for the fuselage, air-brakes and flaps which are either way too high (certainly air-brake and flaps) or a tad too low (fuselage).
Also a very annoying problem are the settings for power behaviour, basically some models have a wrongly calibrated power output (A330 most notably) which means that at eg 85% power the readings on your instruments will say 85% but actually the real output is nowhere near that.


Personally I no longer fly the 767 (excellent model but at 140GB game I have to make choices on what I want to use) but use the A332 and 333 extensively married with Airbus pro panels from PSS.
After extensive modification on all previously talked about points (and some more) they fly wonderfully as far as I can tell.
Fuel consumption is very near , what I can find out through the internet, real life, so is climb performance and take-off performance.
The airplanes now follow pretty close the max or optimal altitudes and speed as indicated by the FMS ,before they where way off.

If you really want a freeware airplane that has very good ,lifelike, performances you might consider the aerodesigns A340 package (BTW with an excellent panel and sound package) which also can be married the PSS's package if you want a functional FMS.
[edit post]
 
b727fan
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:54 am

RE: Take Off Problem!

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:58 am

THANK YOU All for the feedback. I have a lot of learning to do!
Also, is there any way to turn the rudder movement off during turns while taxiing on the ground?

Thanks again
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Take Off Problem!

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:28 am



Quoting B727fan (Reply 7):
I have a lot of learning to do!

We all have, some admit it, other dont  duck 

Quoting B727fan (Reply 7):
Also, is there any way to turn the rudder movement off during turns while taxiing on the ground?

What movement do you mean? When you use your joystick and twisting it to let the nose gear turn? Then automatically the rudder will deflect as well. But that doesnt matter! on small prop aicrafts the rudders are interconnected to the rudder to give you a better coordinated turn!
On FS you cannot twist the joystick and let the nose gear steer only... The rudder will deflect as well. But thats no problem... Well, I dont see a problem there  Wink

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
tbanger
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Take Off Problem!

Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:46 am

WILCO737 is it just me or do you keep changing your ensign???

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