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Scooter01
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Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:23 pm

Microsoft has reportedly pulled the plug on ACES studios, this may be the end of FS
http://iblueyonder.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/microsoft-shutters-aces/

Scooter01
There is always a good reason to watch airplanes
 
Burkhard
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Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:18 pm

Really ugly news. This means FSX will last until 2013 at least.
 
regupilot
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Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:03 pm

It means there is no more Flight Simulator! NOOOOOO!!
http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2009/01/the_end_of_an_e.shtml
 
Fly2HMO
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Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:38 pm

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 2):
It means there is no more Flight Simulator! NOOOOOO!!

I'm actually kinda glad, if this is true. This will force whoever decided to buy or relive the franchise to do a major remake of the program. I find it pathetic even FSX still has some programming elements from FS98 and even earlier DOS versions of the simulator (i.e. BGL files). They really need to make a sim with X-plane realism but with the visual appeal of the FS franchise, which can still be much better. The only reason I like FS is that it is so customizable. Heck, my FS9 looks and performs waaay better than FSX.

[Edited 2009-01-23 09:41:04]
 
Qantas744er
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Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:55 pm

Even though ACES has been shut down this is simply a effort of MSFT to get things under one brand. Made little sense to keep the ACES name even though it was 100% owned by them.

Same thing happened to other smaller MSFT studios during better times. Indeed some did and will loose their jobs but others will continue to work for MSFT and on the same projects.

I dont worry too much since I've read that they will continue to develop fs one way or the other at MSFT.

Leo  Smile
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
dl767captain
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:43 am

This might actually be a good thing. A different company like EA Games could hire these now former microsoft employees and continue the flight simulator game, sans the microsoft name. The game could be even better with more updates and expansion packs. Microsoft seemed to not really care a whole lot about the game anymore so someone like EA games taking over would be really interesting
 
lhr380
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:45 am

In reality, all MS did was the basic package.

I have add on sceneries, weather, aircraft, traffic and a lot of other things not done by MS that have made the sim a lot more then it was to start with.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:15 pm



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):
A different company like EA Games could hire these now former microsoft employees and continue the flight simulator game, sans the microsoft name. The game could be even better with more updates and expansion packs.

That would be awesome.  thumbsup 

Anyway that's I got from Google News
PC Mag
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339520,00.asp

Fatmir
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
Continental
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Oh well. I'm happy with my FS9. I probably won't get FSX, unless supercomputers become the norm and inexpensive. It'd be nice for someone to pick this up who has a tremendous passion for aviation and pays attention to details, such as air traffic control.
 
zappbrannigan
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:01 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
I find it pathetic even FSX still has some programming elements from FS98 and even earlier DOS versions of the simulator (i.e. BGL files).

I realised FSX was a bit of a half-baked effort when I found they'd blindly cut and pasted part of the help documentation from FS9 - including features which were present in FS9 but were removed from FSX (such as the ability to move the Tower position). Although I'm running FSX, and quite happy with how I have it set up, it does appear to be the Vista of the FS world - a heap of window dressing but no real core improvements when you get down to it.
 
Northwest727
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:50 am

I'm disappointed to see that MSTS 2 was axed, for the now second time. The photos looked pretty good. Which leads me to:

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):

Never really thought of it that way; that is a really good point. I hope that in this case, is ACES is done for good, I hope that this can happen, and MSTS 2 can be finished, and MSFS actually becomes really good.
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:31 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
They really need to make a sim with X-plane realism but with the visual appeal of the FS franchise, which can still be much better. The only reason I like FS is that it is so customizable. Heck, my FS9 looks and performs waaay better than FSX.

Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 7):
That would be awesome. thumbsup

Anyway that's I got from Google News

God help us if that happens. EA Games are not a very promising prospect. And there would be NO addon support. It'd be locked up tight. There are opportunities in a stable platform for 4 or 5 years where developers will find out all the possibilities and push the platform to its limits. What is there now is very flexible.

[Edited 2009-01-26 02:42:31]
 
zappbrannigan
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:25 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 11):
Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

I've found X-Plane to be more accurate and realistic in the light aircraft world - and conversely, all the heavy jets I've seen on X-Plane have been pathetic compared to the likes of PMDG stuff for FS9/X. XP has some features that would enhance the heavy jet world in FS - such as sloping/uneven runways that the aircraft rides over nicely (I think strut compression might even be modelled) - you get a real sense of speed down the runway in XP, unlike the billiard-table runways in FS.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:27 am

We are getting more information now. It looks like the ACES team management did not perform as expected. They could not produce the three projects ( TS2, FS11, ESP2 ) with the budget they got for it, and not with even delayed time schedules. Now the ACEs Studio got axed, and like old Egypt that burried the slaves with their Pharaos, global capitalism burries the workers with their luckless managers.

Microsoft has refused to sell the exisiting FS plattform to the former ACES team that would have tried it on their own ( source Phil Taylor http://www.futuregpu.org/ )

I interpret this that they intend to set up a new group, using the exisiting basis, or at least want to keep this as opportunity. Since FSX has sold well and still is selling well, now that normal gamer new hardware is capable to run it, this may not be a bad decision.

What I'm afraid of is that FSX code comes under XBOX control, and FSXBOX loses its openess.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:43 am

Good. This will allow me to catch up to FSX! I have owned it for a couple years but I have not dared install it yet. Doing so would make me spend butt-loads of money on a new computer. Every release of a new FS means I build another new computer and I'm over it! Especially since I never get a version of the game running flawlessly before the next version comes out. Too much baggage.

With that said, I have reached a point where I am considering a new computer. I built this one over 4 years ago. I think it's time. Hopefully I will be able to finally install FSX and it looks like I wont have to worry about another upgrade for a while! ha!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:25 pm



Quoting Zappbrannigan (Reply 12):
XP has some features that would enhance the heavy jet world in FS - such as sloping/uneven runways that the aircraft rides over nicely (I think strut compression might even be modelled) - you get a real sense of speed down the runway in XP, unlike the billiard-table runways in FS.

That'd be a superb feature.

I guess however the whole development makes me annoyed at the way the whole lot got shafted.

Okay, get rid of the failed project managers - but keep the good people who make it what a great product it is/was. I met all the people behind FSX. While some managers losing their jobs doesn't worry me much - I feel bad for the artists in the team, the younger people who are trying to expand their careers.

I also remember Brett Schnepf, a real firebrand if ever there were one.  Smile I also remember "Z" on the karaoke...  Wink
 
rb211
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:38 pm



Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 2):

Microsoft just made my wife very happy......D@#$!+!!!
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
David L
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:17 pm



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13):
I interpret this that they intend to set up a new group, using the exisiting basis, or at least want to keep this as opportunity

Agreed. I think some of us are jumping the gun... at least, I hope so. I mean, they've said they're scrapping the ACES team, not FS, right?
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:59 am



Quoting David L (Reply 17):
they're scrapping the ACES team, not FS, right?

What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head? Or will be shot in the head in a few months?

If there is hapless management - then axe them, but don't get rid of the really talented people who know the product inside out and have very good ideas about how it might be made better.
 
David L
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:01 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 18):
What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head?

Yes, I said "ACES team" but it doesn't seem to be clear just what's happening. It could end up effectively being a "restructuring". I'm just saying I need more information before I decide how I feel about it.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:24 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 11):

Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

I have the 737NG series. The only thing realistic about them is the button pushing, thats it really. And I would know considering I'm (technically) type rated in the 737 (yes, the REAL thing), I have 26hrs in 737-3/5/8 Level D sims, I'm just missing the type rating to show up in my license, but that wasn't part of the deal during my internship with CO.

I was talking about flight dynamics. X-plane is like a virtual wind tunnel, something none of the FS versions can even approximate, as FS is based on a crude tabular system.

I was skeptical of X-plane's dynamics until I did the ultimate test when I simulated a VMC demo in a Piper Seminole in X-plane. The thing started rolling over itself at 56kts which was EXACTLY how the plane behaved all the times I did a VMC demo in the real life Seminole. Not to mention X-plane has an extremely accurate constant speed prop/thrust dynamics.

I will admit though, I still play FS9 more than X-plane, heck I haven't played X-plane at all this year.

The ultimate flight simulator for me would have FS graphics and X-plane dynamics.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:18 am

To run FSX with meaningful settings, you do not need anything special today. A fast dual core or not too slow quad core, 3 to 4 GB of Ram, and any x8xx graphics adapter do it, and should be in the 600-800$ area. Just don't save on the graphics, do not take anything of x6xx or even below, true FSX grafics needs the true 3d cards.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 18):
What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head? Or will be shot in the head in a few months?

It isn't the first team that worked on FS that got dissolved, and all I hope is that it isn't the last one. Time will show, until than time has time to catch up with FSX.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:17 pm



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 21):
It isn't the first team that worked on FS that got dissolved, and all I hope is that it isn't the last one. Time will show, until than time has time to catch up with FSX.

really? Can you elaborate on that. I wasnt aware of the team being dissolved before?
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:44 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 20):
I have the 737NG series. The only thing realistic about them is the button pushing, thats it really. And I would know considering I'm (technically) type rated in the 737 (yes, the REAL thing), I have 26hrs in 737-3/5/8 Level D sims, I'm just missing the type rating to show up in my license, but that wasn't part of the deal during my internship with CO.

I suggest you get in contact with PMDG and start pushing them to do better then, or push the X-Plane community to do what is missing better.

However, I was involved in another well known FS simulation, and the feedback we got from pilots and engineers of the real thing was different to yours. Admittedly, ours was a much older and more complicated airliner with many old fashioned round dials (even had a INS).

It's a question of who is tuning the performance of the plane in Flight Simulator. It's a very fine art - and what I was involved with was pretty much the ultimate in complicated flight characteristics. Certainly testing it was tough enough.

It was tweaked again and again and again, verified against real world data endlessly, and tested 'till we all started to get quite exhausted (and sometimes a bit cranky). It's not that FS can't be accurate, it's just a matter of who is developing the addon, and how they are doing it. It has a lot more left in it.

There is scope for developers to do their own simulations of anything FS doesn't do so well outside of FSX. In fact, that was encouraged for anything very complex, with the idea of SimConnect being the bridge between a developer's addon architecture and FSX. It would probably even be possible to do something X-Plane like (in terms of physics), assuming you had the expertise and development resources to support it.

Using SimConnect is also best practice, with the idea of minimising the amount of connection points your own code has with FS (less places things can break if MS changes/upgrades FS internal code).

However, I've backed right out of flight simulator now (due to my day job taking up the majority of my time). So I'm not exactly up to date with the latest developments. My last purchase was the MD11, and I have very little time for it. That's my world now - I don't play any computer games any more.  Sad I get home, I eat, watch about 30mins of TV then go to sleep.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:26 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios

shows that closing of game studios happens every year at MS. And the old BAO team is gone long agao too.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:48 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 23):

I suggest you get in contact with PMDG and start pushing them to do better then,

Well for them to do better, flight sim would have to be better in itself. But now that they're dead, who knows what's gonna happen...
 
Burkhard
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:33 am

More news - Microsoft offers an open position for project lead of developping Flight Simulator.

So Good bye to the topic - welcome to the new Microsoft Flight Simulator.
 
VC-10
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):
Microsoft seemed to not really care a whole lot about the game anymore

That's true, how could you bring out a celebration of 100 years of flight and not include Concorde?
 
David L
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:52 pm



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 26):
More news - Microsoft offers an open position for project lead of developping Flight Simulator.

So Good bye to the topic - welcome to the new Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Well, there's a surprise.  sarcastic   Smile

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 27):
how could you bring out a celebration of 100 years of flight and not include Concorde?

Perhaps they realised they couldn't do it justice. Even the less challenging default aircraft are pretty mediocre.
 
rb211
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:04 am

That's good to hear. Maybe this time they'll set it up so that I can easily modify my AFCADs and include a movable tower.
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:41 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 27):

That's true, how could you bring out a celebration of 100 years of flight and not include Concorde?

Because they'd do a pretty poor job of it - and two addon developers already did the plane.
 
VC-10
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:20 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 30):
two addon developers already did the plane

I know, I was part of the test team for one of them!
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:51 am



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 27):
not include Concorde?

Well, it wouldn't have been any good. Their representation of Boeing's models were terrible. I quickly removed them from the program once I learned how.

Quoting David L (Reply 28):
Even the less challenging default aircraft are pretty mediocre.

My point exactly.  Smile
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
Burkhard
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:22 am

I also don't mind what they include, I mind that the engine works and the tools to create contents make good stuff - the rest I build myself or know somebody who builds it...

This is an old guys approach to computing though, and if a future version comes with a new theme pack every 6 months similar to Acceleration, that is fine with me.
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:50 pm

Microsoft Flight Simulator Petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/MSFS/petition.html
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
regupilot
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:09 pm

According to an Avsim newsflash, FlightSim is dead as well as ESP, which was the big hope. If ESP is dead, I don't see why they would keep with flight sim as we know it. Maybe they'll want us all to switch to XBOX and forget about our custom panels/mods/controls, etc.

Here's an excerpt:

Quote:
FACT: Microsoft Flight Simulator for the PC is dead. There are no plans to continue the FS series in a form that we would recognize. The wholesale dispatch of the ACES team speaks volumes to this.

FACT: ESP is dead. Boeing, Raytheon and presumably Northrop Grumman (ESP’s first adopters) received notification that the ESP franchise is done and that, in effect, they are on their own. We have seen some discussion putting hope in the emergence of ESP as the next "engine" for flight simulator. That is not going to happen.

FACT: Some developers in our hobby approached Microsoft to purchase the MSFX code. Microsoft rebuffed that offer in total. We presume that this is because having the FSX code out there would “diffuse” their future intent and model for a flight simulator “replacement”.

Full read on www.avsim.com frontpage.
 
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cpd
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RE: Goodbye Flight Simulator?

Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:16 am

With a model like that, if it happens - they are going to go nowhere.

The devotees are going to stick with FSX and or FS9. FS9 is still a good performer, but FSX is where the scope exists for extensive improvements.

With ESP out of the picture, the new FS was always going to be a shaky proposition. ESP was the driving force that was to give FS its continued strength. At least that's how I thought it was going to happen. I won't elaborate any further than that.

But since last year, everything has changed radically.

I still can't help but feel that it became all too difficult.

Perhaps the best chance is for the XPlane crowd to head hunt some of the real brains behind MSFS. There were some seriously talented people in that team who really sparkled with brilliance - they knew their craft extremely well, and were reasonably happy to share their expertise with the community in a way that was easy to understand and useful.

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