Fly2HMO
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Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:56 pm

Decided to start a new thread to maximize exposure to those who may have not seen this already.

Well, MS did a minor update of their MSF website (http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/ ). But damn are they being teasers. Here's a very intriguing FAQ:

Quote:

Q:
What is "Microsoft Flight?"
A:
"Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.
Q:
How does “Microsoft Flight” differ from “Flight Simulator?” Why the new name? What’s changed?
A:
With “Microsoft Flight” we’re approaching the virtual flight genre from the ground up, with the focus on the universal appeal of the experience of Flight. We believe the simplicity of “Microsoft Flight” perfectly captures that vision while welcoming the millions of existing Flight Simulator fans. The new “Microsoft Flight” retains the full fidelity simulation longtime fans have come to expect while offering all players a whole new look and feel, a wide range of new game play and challenges, persistent experiences and social connectivity.
Q:
How does Games for Windows – LIVE factor in?
A:
Games for Windows – LIVE introduces a new level of connectivity to virtual flight, enhancing both the social and game play experiences of the title. Content is updated virtually. You can fly solo or join an entire global flight community online. You can easily connect with and facilitate flight experiences with your friends. The addition of Games for Windows - LIVE creates an ubiquitous virtual world of flight that offers easy and engaging access to the magic of flight for all.
Q:
Who is developing “Microsoft Flight” now that ACES is gone?
A:
“Microsoft Flight” is being developed internally at Microsoft by a team that includes many of the same creative minds that helped deliver countless entries in the “Flight Simulator” franchise.
Q:
Why did Microsoft shut down ACES Studio last January?
A:
Microsoft Game Studios is always evaluating its business model to determine what is best for both gamers and the company. Many factors were considered in the difficult decision to close ACES Studio, but we feel the 2009 closure helped us better align with our goals and long-term development plans. "Microsoft Flight" is being developed by many of the same creative minds that shaped "Microsoft Flight Simulator," and we're excited about delivering a new take on this classic franchise.

I get mixed feelings about this. So it looks like it won't be merely just a game after all, however,it's going to be a real challenge to not dumb the sim down so much for the average Joe and still keep it enjoyable for us hardcore veteran MSFSers. This is why I really hope they make two editions: the average Joe edition, and the hardcore edition for the rest of us.

Also, looks like they're pushing for massive online play. This has some great potential if done right. I'm assuming they're planning something similar to the now defunct Microsoft Zone multiplayer system in use for FS98. Again, I hope they segregate the average Joes from the pros, otherwise those of us who like to do long realistic flights will have to put up with 12 year olds trying to ram your airplane and kill you (saw this a lot in the Zone days)  

And the thing that worries me most, is the statement saying that it will "retain the full fidelity simulation long time fans have come to expect". I hope this won't mean, as with EVERY other FS release, that under the hood there will be little changes and the game engine will still be basically the same. It's time FS had a serious physics engine and higher fidelity of systems and what not.

At any rate, I hope they take their time with this, and don't rush it like with FSX, and make a proper simulator, more realistic, better graphics, yet without needing a supercomputer. That's a tough one to pull off.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:22 am

Definitely going to be interesting to see how they decide to do this.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
This has some great potential if done right

Absolutely. I think it's definitely worth taking it beyond the in-game multiplayer. I've experienced a lot of what you mention with stupid kids. That's why I rarely ever bother with that anymore.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
I hope they segregate the average Joes from the pros

YESSSSS....See above.
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alberchico
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:10 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
with the focus on the universal appeal of the experience of Flight.

Sounds to me like they are going to focus on graphics, scenery, and multi player experiences more than realism. Just hope this doesn't turn into some ace combat arcade style garbage......
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
David L
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:31 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
I get mixed feelings about this

Ditto - it's a bit ambiguous. I'm not sure whether it sounds promising or ominous.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 2):
Sounds to me like they are going to focus on graphics, scenery, and multi player experiences

Here's hoping they focus on core features, such as the physics, weather, AI and ATC, etc, and make sure they leave enough doors open for 3rd party developers so they don't have to spend so much time working "outside" the framework to provide decent features. Better graphics would be nice eventually but I think there are higher priorities.
 
Mir
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:19 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Thread starter):
Again, I hope they segregate the average Joes from the pros, otherwise those of us who like to do long realistic flights will have to put up with 12 year olds trying to ram your airplane and kill you (saw this a lot in the Zone days)

Disable aircraft collisions. Problem solved.

-Mir
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:35 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):

Disable aircraft collisions. Problem solved.

-Mir

Oh I had it off alright. Still it's annoying as hell to have some other nutjob flying around your plane being stupid taking up your screen and what not as if it was a bunch of flies trying to land on a moving turd. Annoying as hell   
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:05 am

Still worried that they repeatedly says "game" "games" and "game play". I want a sim not an arcade type of thing, even if my super hard core younger brother says I'm flying arcade mode lol
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:24 pm

Well with FSX we had the custom traffic on the roads .. ships .. cool AI stuff. I hope they take that further because it added more to the game. Its taken me years to become good at Flight Simulation. I sure hope it isnt turned into something really dull. As long as it allows for independent ppl to created add-ons and doesnt stray to far from what it already is It should be cool. Hopefully they throw some foreign voices into the cockpits and towers. Sounds dumb having an american clear you for take off in Beijing lol.

All in all Microsoft wants to make money .. I doubt they are going to want to screw us all over with an arcade game. They could just bring out an arcade style flying game for much cheaper and less effort if they wanted to do that.

Fingers crossed! Looking forward to it. 
 
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cpd
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:41 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 7):
Well with FSX we had the custom traffic on the roads .. ships .. cool AI stuff. I hope they take that further because it added more to the game. Its taken me years to become good at Flight Simulation. I sure hope it isnt turned into something really dull.

I hope for a superior graphics engine that really is very optimised, but otherwise, I hope the rest remains similar to what it is now - so that our addons will readily work in the new simulation.

Well, I hope it is a simulation - but it might well be that it is a game only.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):
Still it's annoying as hell to have some other nutjob flying around your plane being stupid taking up your screen and what not as if it was a bunch of flies trying to land on a moving turd. Annoying as hell

That's what Autoland is for (if your plane has it). My landing will look perfect, regardless of someone trying to fly around blocking my view of the runway.

[Edited 2010-10-05 15:43:11]
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:04 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 8):

That's what Autoland is for (if your plane has it). My landing will look perfect, regardless of someone trying to fly around blocking my view of the runway.

Or you could just use your instruments   
 
Burkhard
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:50 am

What worries me is the " and integrated content marketplace" - which means that add ons will only be possible through MS censorship and control.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:53 pm

Dunno what I'd do without world of ai. They Better not make it hard for add ons.
 
WNwatcher
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:29 pm

Hopefully some of the late model addon A/C for FSX will be compatible with MS Flight, much in the same way most of the current addons from FS-9 are compatible with FSX
meepmeep
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:05 am

Quoting WNwatcher (Reply 12):
Hopefully some of the late model addon A/C for FSX will be compatible with MS Flight, much in the same way most of the current addons from FS-9 are compatible with FSX

Well, if they use the same old sim-engine as in FS9 or FSX, then it would be a definite possibility, but then surely the sim would be disappointing. However, if they're smart they'll finally make a clean sheet sim engine, though that won't bode well for compatibility.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:48 pm

Crazy q .. whens the release date?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:00 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 14):
Crazy q .. whens the release date?

I don't think they'll even release a release date before sometime next year, mid-year. (confused?   ) And my best estimate for a full release is late 2011 early 2012
 
Burkhard
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:56 pm

Quoting WNwatcher (Reply 12):
Hopefully some of the late model addon A/C for FSX will be compatible with MS Flight, much in the same way most of the current addons from FS-9 are compatible with FSX

First FS9 addons and FSX addons have almost nothing in common. The basic model format of FS8 and FS9 is similar, a sequential desciption of the models in bgl like language that had been used for scenery already since FS5.
FSX uses a completely different, Direct X native data format.

The backwards compatibility is one of the biggest problems with FSX and its performance, especially when several legacy formats mix in one scene. So please, no real time backward compatibility again.

But, want I want to propse is an offline compatibility. MS, make a converter that transforms old formats into the new ones. Offline, such converters have all time of the universe to do this and make any possible optimization, and than make a slim engine that supports the highly optimzed formats only.
 
C
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:31 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10):
What worries me is the " and integrated content marketplace" - which means that add ons will only be possible through MS censorship and control.

That worries me too, especially the word "marketplace", which makes it sound like they're going to focus on payware add-ons only. If Microsoft doesn't allow freeware I expect Flight to fail spectacularly.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:36 am

Well, there is yet another new video out, and IMO it's the same old same old half-assed effort all over again        (truth be told, the final product may be very different).

I did notice however a few minor improvements, like the tree shadows on the plane itself, and even the prop creates it's own shadow on the airframe it seems.

Here's a youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keTDuAz8Hbo&feature=related

Or the official link:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/
 
Mir
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:32 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 18):
truth be told, the final product may be very different

Doesn't look like a massive leap forward graphics-wise, but that's not a dealbreaker for me. I'd much rather have a big improvement in the way the ATC works and the way the weather is modeled than some extra shadows. And can we finally get some realistic ground handling (i.e proper friction in the tires)?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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cpd
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:16 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Doesn't look like a massive leap forward graphics-wise, but that's not a dealbreaker for me. I'd much rather have a big improvement in the way the ATC works and the way the weather is modeled than some extra shadows. And can we finally get some realistic ground handling (i.e proper friction in the tires)?

The big difference - the taxiways and runways don't flicker anymore!  

I'd hope for some improvement in framerate performance, and ATC performance.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:47 am

How about airports that aren't laser-straight flat. There's no such thing as a straight runway.
 
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cpd
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:24 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 21):
There's no such thing as a straight runway.

Good point - Rand Airport in South Africa. Then we can try and fly the B747 into there, like they did in real life!  

But I'll settle for the easier big ticket items. FSX still mostly runs slow on my computer. I think a potent quad-core computer running at 2.93ghz with a powerful graphics card should be able to manage 50fps steady, and not drop to 8fps or less.

FS / Flight needs a big internal restructure to properly take advantage of modern computers.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:51 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 22):
FS / Flight needs a big internal restructure to properly take advantage of modern computers.

I really hope they will do so. But If the final product is going to resemble what we saw in the video, then I'm afraid that ain't happening.
 
Mir
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:16 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 21):
There's no such thing as a straight runway.

Oh yes there is. Go fly in Florida or the Midwest and you'll find them.  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):

Oh yes there is. Go fly in Florida or the Midwest and you'll find them.

May I remind you the world isn't flat  
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:56 am

Having seen the latest from Microsoft's website, I have to say it - "I've got a bad feeling about this..."  

Based on the advertising that over-talks and under-shows, I get the feeling they believe hardcore simmers will NOT be impressed. And as others have said, it definitely won't be a success if only a small percentage of today's hardware is capable of running it fluidly with sliders maxed, or at least mostly maxed.
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Burkhard
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:50 am

I personally have the impression that Flight will be more a series of games around a slight update to FSX, than a real new Flight Sim. Easy to make, fast to sell and to forget. There is nothing worde for a software publisher than a software that still is used after years...

If this means we get a SP3 for FSX, even if it costs, that would not be so bad...
 
Mir
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:58 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
May I remind you the world isn't flat

Fair enough, but when you can't see that effect most of the time, why bother trying to depict it in FS? Though it would be nice to have the capability to have gradients on runways where appropriate.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:10 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 27):
I personally have the impression that Flight will be more a series of games around a slight update to FSX, than a real new Flight Sim. Easy to make, fast to sell and to forget. There is nothing worde for a software publisher than a software that still is used after years...

Agreed.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 27):
If this means we get a SP3 for FSX, even if it costs, that would not be so bad...

It will be bad if they still plan on charging close to $50 or more they usually do.

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):

Fair enough, but when you can't see that effect most of the time, why bother trying to depict it in FS? Though it would be nice to have the capability to have gradients on runways where appropriate.

Of course. My thinking is that if X-plane and a myriad of other relatively low budget open source Flightsims can depict sloping runways, then the next MSFS may as well be able to, granted it would probably take a major redesign of the mesh engine.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:13 pm

In my opinion it's still a toss up. At least we've seen a bit more of the graphics, and that seems to be on par.

Personally, I could settle for FS9/FSX style graphics, as long as the underlying engine was given a bit of a work-over. As others have mengined, sloping runways would be a big bonus, as would a greater degree of customization when it comes to options available on the ground. I posted this on AVSIM a while ago as well, but it bears repeating:

• Proper looking pushback procedure, or at least make it customizable. It still gets on my nerves, watching a 747 doing a 90 degree turn on a platter after being pushed straight back from the terminal.

• Better integration of parking procedures (ie. drive-through parking, taxi and turn parking)

• Allowing for stands with multiple parking locations, letting FS determine when to use one for a large aircraft or two side-by-side for smaller commuter types.

• Allowing AFCAD/ADE designers to designate a preferred taxi routing. Places like Mallorca drives me nuts, since the aircraft instead of following the outer, main taxiways, start taking shortcuts across the inner apron.

• Making ATC make less of a hash of cul-de-sacs. We've all been there, seeing 4-5 aircraft stuck on Taxi In to a cul-de-sac, because there's a single commuter jet going out from the same.

• Making the Flight Sim recognize when a runway is closed for takeoff or landing on one end only. This is pretty much my biggest pet peeve, since it completely screws up any airport with offset parallel runways (MAN & CPH are two glaring examples).

• And one really outrageous one, allowing users to design more complex approach ala the River visual into DCA, which can't be done with the current system.

My main interest in FS is the AI system, and this I would really love to see.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:37 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 30):
Allowing AFCAD/ADE designers to designate a preferred taxi routing. Places like Mallorca drives me nuts, since the aircraft instead of following the outer, main taxiways, start taking shortcuts across the inner apron.

You are aware that you can steer this by adding more taxiway nodes? I would prefer to be able to declare taxi ways as one way. Not that my main interest isn't AI :lol:
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting CPH-R" class="quote" target="_blank">CPH-R (Reply 30):
• Making the Flight Sim recognize when a runway is closed for takeoff or landing on one end only. This is pretty much my biggest pet peeve, since it completely screws up any airport with offset parallel runways (MAN & CPH are two glaring examples).

Think that was possible in FS2002 but for some reason it's not possible in FS9. You can set the option, but nothing happens IIRC.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:14 am

So I just remembered something: after the ACES team was flushed down the toilet, MS kept the FS engine around for industrial/commercial/military applications. MS calls the engine Microsoft ESP. While it is little more than a glorified version of the FSX version, I think it's obvious the MS Flight will use the ESP engine, which may not be a totally bad thing, seeing as it meets the need of military and commercial fields.

I remember hearing about ESP project waaay back, and had long forgotten about it. But then I bumped into this article which goes into much more detail about this simulation engine:

http://www.simpilotnet.com/index.php...content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=32

The official press release:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2008/oct08/10-29ESP.mspx

Interestingly the ESP official website has been decommissioned. So maybe MS Flight may get an all new engine afterall   
 
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cpd
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:28 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 33):
MS calls the engine Microsoft ESP. While it is little more than a glorified version of the FSX version, I think it's obvious the MS Flight will use the ESP engine, which may not be a totally bad thing, seeing as it meets the need of military and commercial fields.

ESP is/was FSX.

They evolved side-by-side.
 
C
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:21 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 33):

Interestingly the ESP official website has been decommissioned

The reason for that is because Microsoft sold ESP to Lockheed-Martin late 2009.

Quote:
"Lockheed Martin Prepar3D 1.0
In 2009, Lockheed Martin announced that they had negotiated with Microsoft to purchase the Intellectual Property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP product. Microsoft ESP was the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2. On May 17, 2010,[7] Lockheed announces that the new product based upon the ESP source code is called "Prepar3D" (pronounced "Prepared"). The product is rebranded for Lockheed Martin and is backwards compatible with the previous Flight Simulator X SP2 and ESP v1.0 products. Lockheed have hired some members of the original ACES studio to continue development of the product. The product will be released later in 2010 for sale directly from the Prepar3D website. Potential users and developers are able to pre-register for evaluation versions."
http://www.prepar3d.com/
 
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cpd
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:22 am

There are some interesting details there - especially online content market, does that sound familiar?

The old idea was that the two were supposed to support each other, but that obviously didn't happen. I only hope both Flight and Prepar3d are hugely improved from FSX SP2, because $500 is hugely expensive for what is derived from a legacy application.

The Prepar3d SDK however is excellent.

[Edited 2010-10-28 21:28:49]
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:49 am

Please review the following Youtube video. It's taking the recent Microsoft Webisode 2 & comparing to FS2004. Upper left corner is Microsoft Flight, and lower right corner is FS2004. Interesting differences IMO. Airport depicted appears to be Hilo, Hawaii.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:30 am

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 37):
Please review the following Youtube video. It's taking the recent Microsoft Webisode 2 & comparing to FS2004. Upper left corner is Microsoft Flight, and lower right corner is FS2004. Interesting differences IMO. Airport depicted appears to be Hilo, Hawaii.

Hmmm. That kinda puts things into perspective. I will say though, that FS2004 clip looks bone stock. The way I have FS2004 set up with mods it looks in some aspects much better than FSX. The one thing I didn't realize earlier is that it looks like FS11 has HDR lighting effects. That really improves visuals. But you can get it in FS2004 too   
 
airbalticfan
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:39 pm

Who really know what it is gonna be. It sounds more and more that we are starting to see very simple version of the game( not a Flight Sim), but yes game...if this is a case, I will be very disappointed.
We really need a new Flight Sim with graphics like FSX has and frame rates like FS9! Anything else in my opinion will be garbage! What use will be if the graphics will be awesome but anybody will be able to simply jump in and fly? It took me a long time to learn and perfect my flying using FSX and FS9, we need reality not looks!
ps.looks and reality  ) That would be really nice!   I just fear that it is not gonna happen in this case!  
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:28 pm

Quoting Airbalticfan (Reply 39):
We really need a new Flight Sim with graphics like FSX has and frame rates like FS9! Anything else in my opinion will be garbage! What use will be if the graphics will be awesome but anybody will be able to simply jump in and fly? It took me a long time to learn and perfect my flying using FSX and FS9, we need reality not looks!
ps.looks and reality ) That would be really nice! I just fear that it is not gonna happen in this case!

I, for one, would welcome a business decision Microsoft is making here to make Microsoft Flight more appealing to the general public. After all, they need to make this franchise PROFITABLE so that they can continue to develop more versions in the future. While reality looks nice (X-Plane as an example), in the long-run it doesn't add to the market share Microsoft is hoping to gain. I'm not a X-Plane user, and nor will I be unless add-on developers begin adding to X-Plane, which I do not forsee happening on a large scale in the future.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:28 pm

MSFS never made any profit. We can estimate the amount of MS stuff on it, the fraction of the overhead like law department, sales department, administration inside MS, know approximately what the external data cost, and think to have an understanding of how many copies got sold, and from this I get the first sentence.

The best selling version ever was FS98, with more than 1 million copies sold. Still MS management wanted to end the title by then, and a now retired MS manger told me he heard with his own ears HIM saying (" I promised to Bruce we will continue to develop it, so we will do as long as I have something to say here"). HE left Microsoft in 2006.
 
airplaneaddict
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:38 am

I think MS flight could be a great seller if they can produce what there web casts show in game. I was once a Fan of MSFS but have moved onto x-plane which is so superior when it comes to the the flight model than Flight Sim x. I would easily make space for Flight if it is good as it is shown. I am looking forward to the release of it.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:59 am

Quoting airplaneaddict (Reply 42):
but have moved onto x-plane which is so superior when it comes to the the flight model than Flight Sim x

As a flight instructor I will say X-plane doesn't feel any more realistic to me than MSFS. In theory it should be, and yes it does feel different to FS9/X. But more real? No. An honest attempt, but no. However I do like how it does somewhat accurately simulate constant speed props, P-factor and Vmc rolls. That's a tiny edge it has over MSFS.

Short of a Level D sim, there ain't much you can do for reality.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:07 am

Small update from Microsoft addressing more concerns from the flight sim community dated December 8th, 2010:

News from the development team
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:05 am

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 44):
Small update from Microsoft addressing more concerns from the flight sim community dated December 8th, 2010:

I'll just go ahead and post it:

Quote:

Wednesday, December 8, 2010 — Welcome to News from the Development Team!
Welcome! We’ve created this section to provide news and updates direct from the Microsoft Flight development team. We’ve been getting all your emails and comments and are creating this central point of contact to respond to your questions. Currently, we’re still early in the development process, so there are many things not yet ready for detailed discussion. We’ll address what we can for now and will provide more in-depth information over time.

Since the very first introduction to Microsoft Flight at Gamescom back in August 2010, we’ve received a tremendous response from both new and longtime Flight Simulator fans. We truly appreciate the warm welcome back. For this inaugural “News from the Development Team” update, we want to give you some context for our new direction. For starters, we’re still some time away from launching the product — far enough out that we are currently unable to provide any details, such as the launch date. We apologize for any frustrations this may cause. We can’t wait, either, to deliver this new experience to all of you! We’re delighted to be able to provide a view into our game at such an early time and to share our progress as we get closer to finalizing the product. We’ve never reached out this early in the development cycle before, so hang in there, and we hope you enjoy the sneak peek.

A number of you have asked, “Why did you drop ‘Simulator’ from the title of the game?”

In addition to the FAQ on this topic, we want to directly address the concern that by dropping the “Simulator” from the name, we’re dumbing down the experience. Quite the contrary! We’ve developed on the “simulation” aspect for many years and have no intension of losing that legacy. What we’re doing now is improving the total experience while building on this legacy, enhancing the enjoyment for all who share a passion for flight. The more people who join us in the Flight experience, the greater the opportunity we’ll have to do even more.

Many of you are concerned that because we want to appeal to a wider audience, we must be building an arcade game.

We don’t need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. But we do need to improve the total user experience if we’re to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight. The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. There is distinct value and strength to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can’t claim to have done the best job of it in the past.

What does appealing to a wider audience mean?

It means improving the user-interface experience, achieving better performance on today’s hardware, providing more focused challenges for people who aren’t quite sure what to do next, and introducing more persistent experiences for people who return often. It also means keeping alive the freedom to go where you want, when you want, and to do what you want. Regardless of their hardware power, piloting experience, or level of interest, many people have enjoyed the traditional flight-simulation experience as a solitary activity. We see a compelling social aspect to the experience inherent in the fun, and we need to better enable and support this dynamic to strengthen the entire Flight experience for everyone.

Based on the previous webisode, we’ve heard, “This doesn’t look any different from FSX!”

As we said in the introduction, we’re still early in the development cycle, so the fact that you comment on the similarity to FSX is great! This comment alone should ease some of the arcade concerns. Please follow along with our progress as we continue to release more webisodes, screenshots, and additional information. In the end, we hope that you’ll have a great time looking back at these early samples and being part of the evolution. Thank you for all your enthusiasm and support!

Overall, I'm a bit less uneasy since their first announcement. Sounds like they got TONS of flak from the hardcore fans for trying to "widen the audience", but it seems they got the message. Thing is, the average Joe has no clue that this program is in development, so they'll probably need to find lots of random Q&A people off the street, but us die hards don't give a damn about them right?  

Also, from what it sounds like, they are extremely early in development, and I think it's safe to say the final product will look nothing like the teaser videos. Also, I am extremely intrigued where they say "achieving better performance on today's hardware". I sure hope this means a clean-sheet or highly optimized sim engine.

Also, if they're really that early in development, I don't think we'll see anything released before late 2012 in that case. The 2009-early 2011 time frame would have been an excellent time to release a sim, as hardware advances haven't been to substantial. However, around 2012 lots of new technology will become available. So hopefully they don't make the same mistake as with FSX, which was released at a terrible time just before significant hardware advances became mainstream (multiple cores, PCI-e, SATA, multiple video cards, etc etc).

At any rate, can't wait to see what they're cooking up. Seeing as they look to be taking user input much more seriously this time, I think this has strong potential for being the best FS version ever.



[Edited 2010-12-10 19:07:44]
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:37 pm

As far as time frame, FSX was "unofficially" announced December 2005, with a formal announcement from Microsoft February 2006. Looking through the forum archives of that time frame (can't believe it's been that long already), it was scheduled to be released December 2006, although it was pushed back early to October 2006.

I'm unable to find the same info for FS2004's release, but I recall it being released during the summer of 2003, atypical of the fall releases for Flight Sim. I don't remember when it was formally announced.   

We should expect a similar time frame development for Microsoft Flight- probably nothing until late 2011 at best.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:59 am

Six new pictures added.

Comparison shots versus FSX can be found on AVSIM:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/322037-ms-flight-new-photos/
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:01 pm

Yet more pictures are up:






Looks good so far, not sure I'm feeling wowed though. Granted it is a work in progress, but the one major flaw I see is that all the streams/creeks rivers seem to stand out waaay too much, specially during the sunset.
 
WNwatcher
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RE: Microsoft Flight, More Information Out!

Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:09 pm

Is it just me or do they seem to be only tacking screenshots in Hawaii?
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