Guest

Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:03 am

Regarding the discussions on faked airline images:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Mossa



This is a fake image. I know - I made it!

The original aircraft in real colors:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Alexander Jonsson



/Fredrik  
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:13 am

and your bragging about that.... why?
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:17 am

If this is true then the fake one should be deleted from the database.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:30 am

I too am a little confused as to your bringing up this point. Are you attempting to challenge Johan's policy on composites ? or merely showing off your skills ?

Please clarify.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:43 am

Let me tell you guys something and this goes to Johan too. all this fake stuff is gonna ruin this website- unless all the photos are real every single interesting photo is gonna be questioned as to if its real or not. There are alot of us here including me who bust our ass to travel the world to get some really nice "real" shots and I dont want to get an email asking me if a shot I took is real- that would be very insulting.
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:51 am


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Mark Garfinkel


With such a long telescopic lens, I get e-mails once in a while by people that are mostly very nice asking if a composite was made....I am with Joe Pries on this topic. I think the real thing is important.
Mark G
 
chrisair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:55 am

I agree with Joe 100%. I've had those questions asked about many of my sunset shots. I find it insulting to have people question the validity of my pix. However, when someone does have a composite photo, it should be marked as "composite" or not allowed on the site...

Chris
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 9:00 am

another thing i forgot to mention- youve got magazine editors and folks who put together brochures that go on here to search for photos- i can assure you that they are gonna lose faith in this site if they will not be sure if a certain shot is real or not- if they for example buy a photo from someone and publish it in their company publication and it is found to have a bullshit decal on the airplane or something- they are gonna catch alot of heat. There must be certain standards in order for there to be credibility and comfort here.
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 9:04 am

We do NOT accept fake/digitally altered/composite images on Airliners.net. I thought I made that clear in the previous thread and in the FAQ.

Fredrik,
If that shot is digitally altered I do not want you to brag about it in here. Instead I'd like you to send me an email on the issue together with proof supporting your case so that I can remove it immediately.

Joe,
How were I supposed to know that it was a fake?

/ Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 9:08 am

Johan,
youre right, you cannot know it was a fake- all i am saying is that it should be very clear to people that fakes here will only lose viewership. If someone gets one past us, well, they will but people must be made aware that it only ruins it for everyone, especially those of us who strive so hard to make our shots look good without any artificial assistance.
 
Guest

Sorry!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 4:19 pm

I'm sorry - I didn't intend to brag about it (nothing to brag about?). No, the reason why I told it is because I want you to remove it.

I have wrote e-mails to you earlier Johan, regarding deleting of my other REAL pictures, but without any answer/action. I hope that you delete all photos now!

I'll e-mail you again!

Hope I didn't ruin Airliners.net.  

/Fredrik
 
nikonF100
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Sorry!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 5:20 pm

I don't understand, why post pictures then ask to have them removed?
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 7:06 pm

I gotta say, if anyone asked me to explain how I composited a "real pic" I'd take that as an accolade!

With regard to Tappan's moon shot - what does it matter if it was composited or not? It's the vision and quality of the image that matters (besides, I gather that this was taken by a digital camera ... there's plenty out there who would only consider a photo to be "real" is taken on film).

As for magazine use ... come on, magazines are the world's greatest compositors. Do you really believe all those sunsets in the holiday brochures!?

Having said that, I agree that A.Net should consist of "records of fact". The question is, does adding a better cloudscape (or digitally enhancing an existing one) count? If so, are we to also ban the use of all filters?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Guest

RE: NikonF100

Mon Dec 18, 2000 7:25 pm

Well, it was a thing between me and a friend, we wanted to see the reactions of our friends - silly? Yes! However, when reading the topics on faked images I realized that it would be best if it was removed! Maybe it can get Johan to delete the other pictures that I asked him to delete earlier...

/Fredrik
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 8:00 pm

While I entirely agree that composite photos have no place being grouped in with the others, I would like to see them in a seperate category. They do represent a lot of hard work, and can sometimes show something impossible to show otherwise.

To the site administrators: If these pics can be completely segregated (i.e. not show up under the new pics link, like the humor photos) then I'd like to see them, but only if there is no chance of confusion.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Mon Dec 18, 2000 9:51 pm

Administrator is doing a fine job with growing this nice sight, I think while Fredrik has brought up an interesting topic, he owes Johan an apology for "graying his hair"!
Mark G
 
Guest

RE: Composite Category

Tue Dec 19, 2000 12:28 am

The special "composite" image category would be fun!!! Then of course there should be a demand of high quality.

/Fredrik
 
chrisair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:56 am

Colin,

I believe that a certain amount of "touching up" is needed on many, if not all pictures. It is very rare that a scanner will produce an absolutley clean, and perfect image. Here is how my "mentor" described it, "A film image is less sharp than what you see in real life, with your eye. When you get that image, and scan it, the image is less sharp than the film, and 2x less sharp than in real life."

I think that correcting colors (Adding magenta to drop the blue out etc...) Sharpening an area where it is a bit fuzzy, or adjusting the brightness/contrast are ok. These do not fall under "digital enhancment" (in my opinion)

The digital enhancments, such as adding clouds, removal of ground, adding clouds and pretty colors are not acceptable for this site. Yes, many mags use them, and that is ok, but is that really what photography is about? Faking images...do we really want this site to have a bunch of "fake" images, when myself, and many of the other photogs on this site bust our ass to go on trips, to nail stuff, and then spend countless hours with the scanner humming, and uploading to AN until the wee hours of the morning.

I think that there is a certain amount of 'acceptable' enhancing, as i mentioned above. We just have to draw the line somewhere...

Just my $0.02 inflated American cents.

Chris

ps. Happy Holidays all!
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Fake Image!

Tue Dec 19, 2000 2:10 pm

"Digitally Enhanced" is supposed to mean touched up.
"Composite" refers to an image completely altered.

Whoever decided to call Composite photos "Digitally enhanced photos" was not thinking at the time...



C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
FastGlass
Posts: 273
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RE: Fake Image!

Tue Dec 19, 2000 2:14 pm

Neg, a composite isn't an image "completely altered". A composite image refers to more than one image cut, copied, and pasted, and flattened into the same layer...
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Fake Image!

Tue Dec 19, 2000 2:25 pm

Okay FastGlass thanks for setting me straight on that, I was unsure on what exactly Compsite meant.

But I know i was correct regarding what "Digitally Enhanced" means...


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Fake Image!

Tue Dec 19, 2000 6:05 pm

I agree with Chrisair - a lot of people put a lot of work into their pics. But I don't see that this has anything to do with the composite/enhance debate.

I see no "ethical" difference in using, say, tone curves to bring detail into a washed out sky and compositing in a better sky - as long as you don't pass the picture off as a meterological study!

Indeed, it would seem a pity if we were forbidden to add an interesting sky to a photographically dull shot of a rare aircraft sighting.

For me, aircraft photography is about trying to portray the aircraft at its best. While I would never alter the subject I would have no qualms about altering the setting to flatter the subject (assuming that is I had the time!)

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Guest

RE: Chrisair

Tue Dec 19, 2000 11:47 pm

I don't agree with you Chrisair.

I also spend time on getting images perfect (well, not on "Spotting pictures" but on "Aviation photography", and the fake image was my first...). However, if you are a photographer, or know anything about it, you appreciate real good photos. Of course, I also appreciate composed photos, but in a different way. Therefore I think it's unfair to say that real photos don't get their attention.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Anders Hviid



/Fredrik

 
sunilgupta
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Wed Dec 20, 2000 12:10 am

I agree that correcting an image is not only perfectly acceptable, but also required. Correcting would include - cropping, contrast, saturation, gamma, sharpen, etc.

However, I can't agree with Colin that adding a better sky is ok unless you specifically mention it in the description. Take each photo for what it's worth - some will be great some will not. If you caught a rare subject in a bad setting then let it be. The bad setting doesn't diminish the rarity of the subject, in fact, sometimes it can make it more interesting.

Sunil
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Fake Image!

Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:31 am

"Indeed, it would seem a pity if we were forbidden to add an interesting sky to a photographically dull shot of a rare aircraft sighting."

Sorry to disagree but thanks Johan to not allow pictures with added skies. I reinforce my idea that the real art of photography is in the moment when you shot the photo, not later in front of your computer adding clouds or cutting buildings.

There is no doubt that composite pictures, can be wonderful to watch but not on this site.

Luis, Faro, Portugal

 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Fake Image!

Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:38 pm

I agree with Mirage. This site is for real photos only.


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
bodobodo
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 6:43 pm

RE: Fake Image!

Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:45 am

I agree with Mirage also. I limit myself to adjusting curves and occasionally colour balance, cropping, and sharpening and this is just to get the image to look as close as possible to what I originally saw through my viewfinder. If the background or the skies weren't what you wanted at the time that's just too bad. If you permit yourself to modify or replace the sky then why not add other planes or modify the plane's livery or serial #.... Why would one modification be permissible while another isn't. The best thing to do is to let the original image stay original. It will make you appreciate those perfect images even more when you do get them.

Cheers,
Felix
 
User avatar
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 5:20 am

RE: Fake Image!

Sat Dec 23, 2000 5:42 pm

Felix has a good point as well as all of you.
At this time, Its 3am and Im tired like an exausted east African elephant. At least I have no more school so YAA-HOO!! SO I have nothing to say but to agree to what everybody has pointed out. From the administrator to Joe Pries, and then to many others like Mirage,Bodobodo,Tappen,CFalk, more and more..
We are humans, we know whats right and whats wrong.
Good luck SE-HJORT on gettin ur picts removed..
Im Going to sleep, good night world.. Happy winter solstace..  

Your Tired comrade photographer,  
Bo Kimm --(-<==  
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.

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