administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

Updates To The Upload Page

Sat Jan 06, 2001 11:11 pm

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that the upload page has been updated with new aircraft pulldown menus. This is a step in our eternal quest to make you people fill in the correct and standardized names of aircraft.  

You'll notice a lot of new versions as well as a new "Generic" field that is currently used in the photo index but have many other future applications. Please read the Help link you'll find beside the pulldown menus, it might look complicated at first but it's really not.

Peter Vercruijsse is the man behind the new extensive aircraft information. Should you find errors or missing entries, contact him at peter@airliners.net. Problems with the pulldown menus and how they function should be reported to me. I know you guys would have appreciated if the menus were not reset after every upload but unfortunately it proved impossible to implement. So for now, both the country-location menus and the aircraft manufacturer-generic-version menus reset and you'll have to re-select them on every upload. I know it can be a pain and I'm looking for other solutions for the future.

Things should work well for Internet Explorer 4 and Netscape 4 (or higher) users, except for the new Netscape 6.

Let me know if something is unclear or doesn't work as anticipated so that I can update the help links, alert windows and/or code.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sat Jan 06, 2001 11:15 pm

very good! thanks, and thanks for re-uploading my two moon shots without the blue dots (which was my fault in the first place)
Mark
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sat Jan 06, 2001 11:37 pm

Maybe I'm wrong but now we must know all the codes that Boeing gives to customers?

I want to upload a Kuwait Airlines 747-400 but on the version menu there are dozens of versions for each airline. I don't know the Kuwait code so it's more time consuming now trying to discover if it is a 747-406 or 419 or whatever. Can't we just leave it as a 747-400?

Luis, Faro, Portugal
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 12:07 am

Yes, regardless of whether we are wanted to fill in the exact type, there needs to be the generic version(eg 737-300) in the version field. I for one don't know how to figure out exact versions at all.


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 12:28 am

It is still possible to just choose the generic "737-300"
in the type field.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Guest

RE: What 2 Do If U Don't Know Version

Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:36 am

Hi All

If you don't know the exact type, or don't have the resources to confirm it, just do as the Help says:

When you are not sure about a generic type or version, choose in the pulldown menu the entry with the dots. An example : Ilyushin Il-62 is a designation used as a generic type for all versions of the Il-62, but the first version built is also designated just Il-62, without suffix. To make a clear distinction between these, when you don't know the version, choose "Il-62...", when you know it is the first version without suffix, choose "Il-62". Please adhere to this to make the supplied information reliable

So, for the Boeing 747-400 problem that was mentioned earlier, the correct Version to choose would be "747-4.."

Try to make sure you get the Generic Type correct - that's the important one for classification purposes.

Thanks,
Andrew (Southflite)
Corrections Editor

 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: What 2 Do If U Don't Know Version

Sun Jan 07, 2001 3:19 am

Well some hours ago when I post this 747-400 question, I was still under the effect of a hangover   damn Friday night beers.
Now I realise I can choose in the version menu "other" and then write 747-400.
Thanks.

Luis
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: What 2 Do If U Don't Know Version

Sun Jan 07, 2001 3:55 am

In case of a boeing you can choose the generic 737-300
since there is no version actually called that. No customer has the code 00.
In the case of a DC-6, DC-7, IL-62, TU-134 or TU-154
among others, you should go for the alternative with the dots .. to distinguish it from the first version of the type.

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 11:48 am

Thanks for your comments. We've updated the help text to better describe how to use the Generic and Version fields. Here it it:


Aircraft Type :

For the aircraft that is the focus of your photograph, choose the Aircraft Manufacturer, Generic Type, and Version from these three dropdown menus.\nThe menus are connected (sequentially-dependent), so you must first choose the Aircraft Manufacturer from the first menu; this then allows you to choose the Generic Type from the second menu, which in turn allows you to proceed to choose the Version from the third menu.

When the manufacturer is not listed in the dropdown menu, choose \"Other\" and type the manufacturer in the Non-listed manufacturer field, the generic aircraft type in the Non-listed generic type field, and the version in the Non-listed version field.

When the manufacturer is listed, but you cannot find the generic aircraft type in its dropdown menu : choose \"Other\" and fill in the generic aircraft type in the Non-listed generic type field, and the version in the Non-listed version field.

When the manufacturer and generic type are listed, but you cannot find the version in its dropdown menu : choose \"Other\" and type the version in the Non-listed version field.

When you have chosen \"Other\" in one of the dropdown menus, and you have clicked (after filling in the other fields) on the \"Submit info and upload the photo\" button to arrive at the second upload page, check very carefully if the aircraft type appears correctly. When not, adjust the entry there.

If there is more than one aircraft in the photo, list the data for the aircraft you wish to be the focus of the photo. Only list one aircraft! Other aircraft should be mentioned in the Remark field.

In the Photo Index search pages the aircraft will be listed by their generic type. By choosing the V for version there, the aircraft will be listed by versions within the generic type.

When you are not sure about a generic type or version, choose in the dropdown menu the entry with the dots. An example : Ilyushin Il-62 is a designation used as a generic type for all versions of the Il-62, but the first version built is also designated just Il-62, without suffix. To make a clear distinction between the generic type and the version, when you don't know the version, choose \"Il-62...\", when you know it is the first version without suffix, choose \"Il-62\". Please adhere to this to make the supplied information reliable.

The aircraft types have to be filled in twice, as generic (or basic) type, and as version. The aircraft type as generic type is the entry that will appear in the Photo Index (e.g. Boeing 747-400), the aircraft type as version is the entry that will appear in the caption of your photo, and will also appear when you select the V = version in the Photo Index (e.g. Boeing 747-436). In the Photo Index search pages you can select to see the photos of all Boeing 747-400s together by the push of one button. When you want to see them by version, you select the V, and they will appear split by version. When you don't know the version, use three dots in the version designation (e.g. Boeing 747-4... ).

NOTE : Not all aircraft types have yet been overhauled, so for several entries the generic type is still the same as the version for the time being. You can amend this where necessary.


Please let me know if there's anything we can further improve.

Thanks,
Johan

Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 1:07 pm

Johan,

I'm sorry to piss in your swimming pool, but I find this revised version to be less user friendly than the previous version.

I have 148 pictures that I have compiled and prepared to upload. Now that all the aircraft type and location info is completely erased, I find it a frustratingly lengthy process. In fact, I just gave up after 7 pics.

Please, please, please, either sort out the cached info problem, or work towards a batch process where we can work off-line (as it is, I fill out all the info I'm going to input on Excel, and copy/paste into the submission form).

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

Umm, Johan, One Tiny Little Meager Request....

Sun Jan 07, 2001 1:36 pm

heehee... umm, can i make a humble and trivial request? okay, not a big deal, but since we are talking about the upload page...

Okay, where you select the country, (if USA, then -state) then a few select airports will appear for that selected state in the next pull down menu... still with me? Okay, well, since i live here in indiana, alot of my pics are from Fort Wayne International, my home airport. But FWA isnt in the pull down menu for indiana, even though its the 2nd biggest airport....

I know its a small airport, but, well, it would be a great luxury, and i would be thoughrohly greatful and honored to have FWA listed in the pull-down menu for Indiana, it saves me the trouble of typing it in each time...

Once again, i dont comprehend the work load you have, and its only a few extra seconds that it saves, but that would just kick ass for me.

And the rest of you... try not to laugh at me for my meager request  


CHRIS
 
chrisair
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:35 pm

Chris,

What I do when uploading pictures (all from the same airport) is type the country into the "other" feild (for example I type "USA - California"), then in the location feild, i type "Los Angeles International (LAX)" or whatever airport.

It's a time saver, because you'll be skipping those 2 feilds while uploading.

 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 07, 2001 10:42 pm

Hey Chris,

I have a very simple solution for your problem......

MOVE to a bigger airport .............  


 
sia jubilee
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 12:48 am

My Opinions

Mon Jan 08, 2001 1:56 am

Hi Johan and all readers,

What do you think if the administrator bring us more convenience when uploading?
I still remember we have no need to remind to fill in again for the date of the photo taken and the place (Country and airport). But now, everytime I complete a upload. The field will blank. Nothing there.  
I need to input the data again. 
Hopeul can fix this problem.

Regards,
Alan
 
chrisair
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Mon Jan 08, 2001 4:47 am

I get that as well...My only suggestion is to try what I posted above...

 
propfreak
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2000 10:26 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:20 pm

hi everyone
ever been annoyed when you first have to scroll twice till you get to the airport you need ? happens to me quite a lot as Zurich starts with a "Z" and is obviously at the end of the list. Chrisair's idea is interesting though. I'd have another idea. How about having the major airports on top of the list? as we are talking about user-friendlyness I thought this would be a nice thing...
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:09 pm

I prefer the old upload page to the new one far more.

If people have the time and resources to find out a plane's exact version, thats great and they can use the write-in field.

Not all of us have that time and I much more prefer seeing "737-300" by a photo than an ugly "737-3...". The number of dots isn't even correct. I'd either prefer to see the old upload form put back into service or the new one changed again with the generic version in the version field being the standardized generic version(eg. 737-300) instead of "737-3...". This is and has been the standard in everything. Go to flightsim.com, you won't see, for example, "737-3..." on an aircraft when they don't know the eact version of the aircraft.

Just my $0.02.


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:26 pm

As someone who spends much of his working life with databases, I can see the point of the revised input form. Standardising data is vital! However, I do think the current online form has been taken as far as it can go (possibly further). While in principle its OK, in practice it can be frustrating to use, esp. with multiple uploads - what particularly irks me is the inconsistency in fields which must be re-typed each time, and those that have the values cached. This leads to mistakes, which leads to going back and filling in some (but not necessarily all) fields again. Why for example is the Reg. retained on the form (which is likely to be changed with each upload), but the country not?

I think, difficulties aside, we should be looking at either an offline tool OR tailorable forms. While I don't agree with the suggestion of putting "major" airports at the top of the list, would it not be possible to either suggest sensible defaults based on the user name, or allow the uploader to preconfigure some default values at the start of an upload session?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Umm, Johan, One Tiny Little Meager Request....

Mon Jan 08, 2001 11:23 pm

So Chris, did they ever get around to paving those runways? Just kidding-I had the same trouble with a number of the airports I shoot at, they weren't in the database. But over time the admin has managed to identify most of them, so now I can use the pulldown. I don't know if they were added because I kept sending in photos from somewhat obscure airports, or if there was a systematic upgrade.

I understand the request to put the major airports at the top of the pulldown, but how do you then display the others? By rate of photo submission from a given airport? By airline traffic count? Alphabetically? And who will decide where the line between major/lesser is located?

TomH
 
sunilgupta
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 3:19 am

Just a little technical note to make your life easier when using the pulldown menus. On IE and probably Netscape once you select the option menu you can type the first letter of the item you want. The list will automatically scroll to the first entry that begins with the letter you typed.

Typing another letter will take you to the next entry that begins with that letter. This is useful when items are not in alphabetical order... for example, where some of the menus have "other" listed at the end.

That should save you guys in Zurich a lot of scrolling  

Sunil
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:03 am

Tom H >> Nope, still grass runways  

Vasco >> i wouldnt mind moving to a decent size airport... But what challenge is it taking pictures at a huge beautiful airport like BOS? See, im taking some po-dunk airport surrounded by cornfields and making a name for it!! now thats a challenge!   anyone can get good shots at BOS!!   J/K (gotta defend myself somehow)

its just odd that for indiana, there are 3 airports listed, Indianapolis (IND, obviously) and then Lafayette, and Terra haute (LAF, HUF) Most of you prolly havent ever heard of those!! and there arent any pics from there either!

Nah, i really dont care too much, just killing time.


CHRIS
 
chrisair
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:16 am

Just hit "Z" when you have that line highlighted. It's faster than scrolling, I do it all the time.

 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 10:30 am

I am working on an offline upload tool. I don't really know when it will be done though.

Also, the type-letter-to-scroll trick only works with Windows. Macintosh users get a real menu that you can only scroll through.
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 6:36 pm

Just a thought - on my own Access pic database, I have built up a table of aircraft details from downloaded registration files. All I need to do for a new image is type in the reg, and the rest of the aircraft details are filled in for me. Could something like this be used on A.net?

Instead of filling in aircraft details and THEN the reg, could we enter the reg first, and if the aircraft is in the database, other details would be filled in automatically.

Yes, this would initially involve quite a bit of work to set up ... but the data for many countries/types is readily available. On the plus side it would a) save uploaders time b) help ensure aircraft data was accurate and standardised c) provide additional info for all entries (eg. c/n, owners).

What I don't know is how much time the administrators currently spend correcting/standardising uploads - would my suggestion offer them any significant time saving?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Tue Jan 09, 2001 10:48 pm

Chris,
You do have worthwhile subjects out thataway!
TomH
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:20 am

Wow Tom!! how did you get that? thats great!! i get to watch those guys fly around just about everyday at work...

Recently with the snow on the runways they were taking off creating huge clouds of snow behind them, would have been fabulous pics, but i seem to be working a flight everytime they go around.

very nice picture. we have a shot of another f-16 here in FWA at sunset with a huge full moon behind it, and a perfect reflection in water below it.. not 100% sure its "real" but awesome pic anyway, its in our airport bar.

----

by the way, the corrections editor wrote me an email saying they would put FWA into the scroll menu soon. Very cool! i think its great how this site pays such close attention to small requests and trivial suggestions.


CHRIS
 
Guest

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Wed Jan 10, 2001 3:20 am

Ckw wrote:
-------------------------------
Just a thought - on my own Access pic database, I have built up a table of aircraft details from downloaded registration files. All I need to do for a new image is type in the reg, and the rest of the aircraft details are filled in for me. Could something like this be used on A.net?
-------------------------------

It was our original intention to do just that, and a well-known airline fleets webmaster had already given us permission to use his data for just such a system.

Unfortunately problems such as duplicate (re-issued) registrations, aircraft types covered (only the major airliner manufacturers), etc., forced us to abandon trying to implement that system for the present.

It's an idea we may well re-visit in the future - once Airfighters.net is fully functional, once all our location lists are standardised, once .... etc, etc (you get the picture?).

Andrew (Southflite)
 
Invader
Crew
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Wed Jan 10, 2001 3:54 am

Chris28_17 wrote :
--------------------------
I know its a small airport, but, well, it would be a great luxury, and i would be thoughrohly greatful and honored to have FWA listed in the pull-down menu for Indiana, it saves me the trouble of typing it in each time...

its just odd that for indiana, there are 3 airports listed, Indianapolis (IND, obviously) and then Lafayette, and Terra haute (LAF, HUF) Most of you prolly havent ever heard of those!! and there arent any pics from there either!

--------------------------
With pleasure we can announce that Fort Wayne has been added to the pull-down menu, and not only that, all Indiana airfields have been overhauled and standardized.

In fact there ARE pictures for Lafayette and Terre Haute. Check USA - Indiana via the Photo Index-Country/Location !

Further, Australia - Tasmania has also been done.

Peter
Database Editor
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Wed Jan 10, 2001 12:28 pm

very cool, thank you!
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Wed Jan 10, 2001 10:58 pm

Chris,
You are right, the site's admin guys can be quite responsive. I honestly don't know how they find the time for all this, and I respect their efforts greatly. Anyway, nice to see your state on the map.

Glad you likes the shot of the Ft. Wayne Wing Commander's F-4 Phantom. It was made possible because I had the graveyard shift in maintenance control that night at my Air Guard base in Massachusetts. I had spent a couple of months setting up the night shoot for a group of photographers I knew. It was my original intent to shut off the high-intensity ramp lighting, but didn't get to it.

I shot Gold 100 print film that night, and the fully-armed A-10 shot I got has been my most commercially successful photo to date. I sold about 50 huge enlargements of it and it was used by the Air Guard in their calendar that year. I was pretty happy with the results, but unfortunately in the 10 years that have passed I haven't tried it again. US Military flight lines are relatively easy to visit during the day, but very difficult to visit at night. Anyway, I retired a couple of years back so I don't get down there too aften anymore.

That was the first photo I linked through a forum, though I notice a lot of folks doing it. I didn't think the admin wanted us doing this, but I thought I would risk getting whacked in a sensitive spot anyway.
All the best to the Hoosiers!

TomH
 
sia jubilee
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 12:48 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Fri Jan 12, 2001 12:32 am

From tonight, the "country" field is now Kept for multiple uploading.
So Happy!  
Thanks to the administrator.
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Fri Jan 12, 2001 12:33 am

Yep, working on making the other fields remain selected as well...

Cheers,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Fri Jan 12, 2001 8:04 am

Ok guys, It was quite a tricky business but I think I've managed to get all the dropdown menus on the upload page to stay selected when pressing the back button or using the "Press here to add more photos" link on the final upload page.

Please try it out and report bugs or problems to me. Note that you need to have cookies enabled on your web browser.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
christianbothe
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2000 7:03 pm

Bug Report

Fri Jan 12, 2001 5:40 pm

The "check your photo stats" on the Add Photos page is not working. It shows something like the content of the selector for the aircraft types. So sad about it, I just love to watch my stats   .
It's working if you use the link after you have uploaded a photo, though.

  christian
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

Thanks Johan

Fri Jan 12, 2001 5:54 pm

The revised upload page is great - I uploaded some pics this morning in about half the usual time. Thanks for listening and taking action.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Sun Jan 14, 2001 7:54 am

Johan,

You hit it on the head with the latest update - excellent job. And it's pretty reliable, too. I just uploaded 134 pics today, and it only locked up once, and lost the cached info 2 or 3 times, which I consider to be pretty good out of 130+.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
sia jubilee
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 12:48 am

Is There Any "speed Restriction" For The Upload?

Fri Jan 19, 2001 12:56 am

Hi Johan,

Here is Alan Tsui from Hong Kong.
First, I would like to say thanks again for the amendment for the pulldown munu. It is more convenient now.  Or I can say the most convenient so far I have used. 

I notified that the upload page is not fixiable on the connection speed.
I was using 56K modem before. The upload speed is fixiable. Around 30-40 seconds.
But after I got the Broadband connection--1.5Mbps.
The upload page so unfixible for uploading.
Sometimes bring me a fast upload speed, around 10-15 sec. for a 1Mb file. 
But sometimes the signal(indicator) is not busy(flash).  So I guess that there is a connection speed restriction.
Isn't this, Johan?
Look forward to hear from you!

Regards,
Alan
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Is There Any "speed Restriction" For The Upload?

Fri Jan 19, 2001 8:06 am

Alan,

There are a lot of factors that can affect how fast a connection you will get. The sheer distance between you in Singapore and Airliners.net it Sweden is one. Also, the amount of other traffic is one. Consider that at any particular moment, there are probably several users uploading photos, even more searching, several reading and posting to the forums, others reading news, etc etc... The more the Airliners.net server has to do at any moment, the slower it gets. Same on your end. If you're listening to internet radio or downloading other files while uploading, that will slow things down to. Also the amount of traffic being generated by other people using your ISP can have an affect (they have only a finite amount of bandwith to go around).

Hope this helps some.
 
sia jubilee
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 12:48 am

RE: Updates To The Upload Page

Fri Jan 19, 2001 8:27 pm

Yes Hawaiian717,

I agree with you.

Alan

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