BA
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Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 2:36 am

Is this shot artistic? What do you think? Most have told me, that it will definately be accepted. What do you guys think? I know its not the greatest quality, but its pretty decent for the type of shot that it is.



Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Thom@s
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 3:06 am

It's nice but I don't know about artistic. And as you mentioned yourself, the quality isn't too good.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray


This picture has alot of dust and is a bit unsharp, but it sure is artistic. Big grin

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 4:18 am

Art is subjective. I would say it is more dramatic, that artistic. Still a good (albeit a bit soft) shot!

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Guest

RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 5:00 am

Hi BA

A wee bit soft, could be motion blur.
Also, your on the dark side. The sun is illuminating
the other side.
It's powerful. Keep going!
I'm going to try some shots like that over the next few weeks.

Cheer

Gerry
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 5:06 am

Would it be accepted? Or rejected?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Granite
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 5:43 am

Hi

Artistic...yes.....grainy and blurry......another yes.

Just an honest opinion so don't take it to heart  Smile

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
FastGlass
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 7:09 am

Why don't you just upload them and find out, instead of flooding the forum with marginal pictures? No offense intended, but this forum was not designed to be a pre-upload screening room.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 8:19 am

As Gary said, it is very dramitic, yet it could be rejected for blurriness. I would try a rescan to sharpen it up, and then upload it.

Jeff
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 8:23 am

I agree with fastglass on the aspect that you just should upload it and then see what happens.

Even though the shot is dramatic not artistic I am sure it will be rejected for bluriness.

Vasco
 
planeboy
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 9:17 am

Hey BA,

Keep trying. As FastGlass and AKE0404AR hinted, you might want to relax a little and see what happens. However, you are using this forum for why it is here - seeking advise on improving your photos and this is a good thing. You have received some positive criticism from some very good photographers in your posts. Put it to use and I am sure you will soon have photos accepted by this site.
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 9:46 am

I submitted it before I posted this post.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FastGlass
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 10:06 am

Then why did you post it here again? The pics are either accepted or rejected. We are all capable of seeing the accepted images. You need to 'focus' on your best shots and not dwell on the ones that may or may not be added to the database in advance.
 
Guest

RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 10:18 am

BA

1) Check and see if your software has "Reduce Graininess" or equivalent: use a little of that, not too much.
2) Lift the midtones (curve: middle: very slightly)
because you are facing the dark side.
3) Then sharpen it a bit more.
4) Resubmit it to a.net using the same ****.jpg
file name.
It should over-write the previous one
you sent up. I've done that before.

It's no gurantee that the webmaster will accept it
but you should always try and better it. Don't stand
still and reckon that your scanner does all the hard work.

Gerry.
 
chris28_17
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 11:54 am

BA, fastglass is right man, this is about the 50th post you've started on similar subjects.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? what WE think doesnt really matter. If it is a good picture then we will all eventually see it here anyway. and if it sucks, then a good report in this post dont mean jack crap.

An "artistic" shot is in the eye of the beholder. If YOU think its artistic, then it is. Its that simple. But if you posted the picture to determine our opinions of its quality, well, that topic has been beat to death....

Do you still have that email i wrote you? go read it again... i know your gonna post something arguing with me, and im telling you right now you might as well save your breath, cuz no one really cares... i've tried many times already to help you.

Aloha,
CHRIS





PS. *looking into crystal ball...* its gonna get rejected...
 
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Scooter
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 12:10 pm

Chris28_17 nailed it: an "artistic" shot is only artistic if you, the photographer, want it that way.

Anyway, I too think that this will not get accepted. The only way I can decribe why is this (and I apologize in advance for the...uh...reference): You know how some adult magazines zoom in TOO much...and it's kinda hard to figure out what you're looking at? So much so that it's not even sexy anymore? Well, your UA 737 shot suffers from that same "closeness" problem.  Wink/being sarcastic Every time I look at it I find myself moving away from my monitor...

You almost nailed a beautiful shot though. If you were on the lit side of the aircraft, and we could see just a little more, this would have been really cool.
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing trip reports.
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:22 am

Chris28_17,
If you don't want to answer my question. Don't answer it! You don't have to tell me that this is the 50th post, and all that. That was not my question. Don't go off topic. Thank you for your comments though.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:26 am

FastGlass,
Either answer my question, or don't say anything at all. I am not forcing you to reply. But don't go off and criticise what I post. Because this forum isn't for that. This forum is for Aviation Photography Forum. Not "Posts you shouldn't post Forum." If you think I am the only one who posts these topics, well I am not. I have seen MANY others who do. So go tell them, before you tell me.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:29 am

All I wanted was to here some of your opinions. NOT just Johan's opinion.

If you don't want me to ask your opinions, well than I'm sorry. I'll never come to the forum ever again.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 3:04 am

I think that some of you guys are being a little hard on BA. C'mon, give the guy a break, he is new to this and if I were in his position, I would be asking for as much info and or opinions as I could get.

In essence that is why this forum exists, to ask and gather information about two of our passions photography and aviation. Lets not lose what one day may be a very good photographer.

In my opinion, as I said earlier this is certainly a dramatic shot, but whether it will be added...well there is a chance, but due to the softness of the shot, I would not hold my breath.

I believe that you are using a Pentax system. I am not certain about their AF lineup, but my very first 35mm camera was a Pentax K-1000, waaaaaaay back in the 70s, this was (and still is in my opinion) the best camera to learn the basics of photogrphy from, no AF, no auto anything I think many of the younger photogs today would do well to start from a camera such as this or the Nikon FM2 (I can't believed that I just promoted a Nikon product, a die hard Canon user). What lens did you use to shoot this plane ? a 70-200 (or something in that neighborhood) 5.6 zoom-tele ? I am very skeptical of these variable apature medium to long zooms, frankly they are not the sharpest lenses out there. I suggest when you progress with your photography (aviation or whatever) and have a little extra cash look in to buying a fixed apature (70-200 2.8) zoom-tele ( I am not certain whether Pentax has such a lens, but the 3rd party makers such as Tokina, Tamrom, Sigma do for the Pentax AF mount) or better a fixed focal lens, say a 300mm f4, these are tack sharp optics, I guarentee that once you start shooting with better optics will never look look at those cheap tele-zooms the same way again.

Also start shooting slide film asap, once you nail slide photography, although slides are a very unforgiving film, but once you master this medium, your acceptance rate will certainly increase.

Good luck and don't give up on this forum.

Thomas

"Show me the Braniffs"
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 3:44 am

BA,

Take it easy, I think you are taking some of these comments too personally. However, I do agree that our opinions really won't determine whether or not your photos will be accepted. Getting advice from other people is VERY important, but that is all it is...advice. The best way to better your skills is to practice, practice, practice. Experiment, try different things, and don't be in such a hurry! Shoot lots of film... Film is cheap, but the perfect photo is priceless.  Smile

Aric Thalman
Omaha, NE
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 4:55 am

Thom@sphoto60,
I don't really have any complaints about my camera. Its AF system is quite something. Its quite fast, and doesn't tend to hunt like some other AF cameras. Out of all the photos I took, none of them turned out to be out of focus. My main problem right now is motion blur. I'm trying to see what I can do to eliminate it.  Smile

Dsmav8r,
I really am taking all the advice everyone is giving. I know, your opinions will not determine whether its accepted or not. But, I am still interested in your opinions. Whether my photos get rejected or not. I just want to hear what you guys (professionals) think. Also, take a look at the UA Shuttle 737 shot on my previous post "Just went spotting and here are the results." That UA Shuttle is a significant improvement over my previous photos. I'm not saying it will be accepted. But you have to admit, that is a HUGE improvement.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 5:16 am

The abousulte best way to stop motion blur is to start using a tripod or at least a monopod, steady support is important! Even the roof of a car would help. Also if you are using your camera in any sort of automated or program mode, give manual exposure (and dare I say manual focus) a try.

Anyways keep on shooting, you'll get there.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 5:38 am

Thanks Thomasphoto60! I will give a tripod a try. But won't it be difficult manuevering the camera around? I will also give manual exposure a try.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 5:44 am

To everyone:
Did you guys notice the large amounts of grain on the right side of the photo, above the plane? What exactly is the reason for this? I used Kodak Gold 100. Whats strange, is the rest of the photo has pretty fine grain, except for that area. Is there any fix for this?

Thanks
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 6:30 am

Hi BA

Grain on the right side....
Something went wrong. If you cannot manipulate
the image to get rid if it, forget that shot and keep
trying.

Another thing: That type of shot you're trying is difficult
to get right first time. I still get some rejections on
a.net when I submit that type. I'm still working on it though.

If you want a recommendation on getting a
shot accepted: On a sunny day, go to a light airfield
and take some basic side-on shots of Cessna's and Pipers etc. Get your best three shots and send them in
and wait. The chances of having "duplicates" in the a.net database, quite unlikely. Yours should be unique.
A lot of mine come into that category.
It is much easier, believe me.
Just send three, no more.
(Think) If you sent in a dozen or more and two are pretty duff, the webmaster would suspect carelessness.
Give the impression you know what you are doing.

Hope this helps

Gerry
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 6:34 am

Thanks Gerry. Is there a good tool in GIMP that lessens Grain?

Thomasphoto60,
But I can't shoot slides, because there is no way to digitize them. What should I do? I can't get a Slide scanner at present.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 6:43 am

Actually no, remember that the camera sits upon a head which is attached to a center post which turns very easily.

One thing though, some (not all) of the less expensive tripods (less than $75) come with so called 'Pan/Tilt' heads these are alright, but buying an additional 'Ball' head will make a tripod that much easier to use, as they more freely move than the Pan/Tilt variety, so chasing an ascending or landing aircraft will be less cumbersome. I personally use Bogen and Gitzo tripods but these are a little pricey, I suggest the Slik line, they start off inexpensively enough, at around $20, $30 and on up to $200.00 (check with B&H). Now these are the prices for the legs only, add a compact ball head @ $25.00 and you have a nice starter tripod for $45-$55.

Like anything else, it will take a while to get use to a tripod. But once you do, you will probably feel naked without one. Tripods have their limits, and often I will take a mono-pod, where a tripod is forbidden or just too cumbersome (namely football games and other sporting events). But for your type of aviation shooting where you are standing out in a field (like I do) a tripod is perfect.

Good luck,

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
usairways@clt
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:00 am

BA:

If the picture isn't rejected for bluriness, it will probably be rejected for low aesthetic quality. I see the kind of shot you're going for, but he may reject it because of the way you cropped the shot when shooting.

I think it will be rejected for bluriness though.

Keep shooting, you will get it!

Regards,
Zach G.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:42 am

I thought you had a film/slide scanner. Perhaps I am confusing you with someone else. For some reason I was thinking that you had an Agfa flim/slide scanner....... anyway, someone here on this forum was talking about their recent purchase of an Agfa scanner, perhaps it was Bo__eing or Bodobodo or someone else with a screen name that starts with a 'B'.

If you don't have said scanner, the I suggest you stick with the slowest print film avaliable. I am hesitiant to suggest Photo CDs offered by some many outlets, from what I ahve read here and on other forums as well as magazine articles the results are at best medicore. This like many hobbies can get a little expensive...... can't it ?

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Guest

RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:56 am

BA

"Reduce Graininess" or equivalent can be found
in the Adobe PhotoDelux V3 or V4 type programme.
(The cheaper/home version of photoshop)
The GIMP cannot match it.
If you must reduce grain by manipulation, use it very
very lightly. (2 or 3 degrees) otherwise it turns your
shot into a diecast model!

I am surprised your 100asa film gave that result.
Bin that shot and keep trying
[ On the sunny side  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ]

Cheers

Gerry
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:22 am

Thomasphoto16,
Yes I do that AGFA slide/flatbed scanner. You are right. But it doesn't do too good a job with negatives. It does a better job with slides, but its a bit low. Definately not as good as a dedicated slide scanner, like a S20.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USAir_757
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:04 pm

Put your camera in APERTURE PRIORITY(Av) mode, and select the max aperture(4.5). It will change to 5.6 and so and back automatically depending on your zoom.


This will force the fastest possible shutter speeds, eliminating motion blur. If your auto picture mode is only going down to f6.7 @ 1/250 sec, fire it! You need more like f5.6 @ 1/500 or 1/1000 sec, or maybe even more.



C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
BA
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:16 pm

Thanks! I'll give that a shot!
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:36 pm

USAir_757,
If I put a faster aperature, won't I get a slower shutter speed?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
vjl
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RE: Is This Shot Artistic?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 3:42 pm

What USAir is saying is to open the lens up at its widest aperature, which is also known as its fastest aperature.

The wider [lower the f/stop number], the faster you can set your shutter speed. That is key for not bluring that photo. You can also pan with the subject, which is what most tend do to. Follow the subject as it takes off or lands, and continue following it. For practice, you can even shoot without any film - ie: follow a/c as they are landing, and take a few shots...when the shutter/mirror have come back up, you should still be following the a/c. This is very important, IMO. It's like following through when you're throwing a baseball.

I'd also recommend a monopod, as Thomas stated. They are very handy, and if you get a ball head, they can be very easy to use while shooting a moving subject.

Though the blur on your photo is due to motion of the camera [or subject!], I would still use your software's sharpen feature to get rid of some of the bluriness.

The grain on the right upper side of the photo is due to shooting the image on probably a wide open aperature. The corners of an image will darken in tone, and it appears your scanner [or software] didn't smooth out the color tones as well as it could.

Shooting with wide open aperature can cause this [even with expensive lens], however, I usually still shoot with these kinds of lens, as I'm able to stop down to F4 or F5.6 without any tone problem. Lenses that start off as F4 or F5.6 would have to go to F8 or 11 to reach the same sort of anti-corner-tone problem, and by that time, it might be too slow to shoot a moving subject with.

Hope some of that made sense!

/vjl/

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