5280AGL
Topic Author
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 6:50 am

Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 2:53 am

I was just curious if some of the pro's in this forum (Michael, Joe, Aric, AirNikon, Mark, etc...) have ever considered switching over to digital? I am very new to photography, and I have been considering the idea of getting a digital SLR instead of a film SLR. I am a little concerned that by purchasing a digital SLR, I will be be buying a piece of equipment that will be outdated soon after I buy it. What are everyone's thoughts about digital and taking the jump?

BTW, my number one choice right now would be the Fuji S1, just because of the price and superior image quality.

Thanks!

--Chris--
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:14 am

Digital is getting quite good. However, I think that the majority will stick with film for now, like me.

I just bought a Pentax ZX-7 SLR and I'm quite happy with it.

I've been shooting cheap film (Kodak Gold 100), and I have been getting grainy results.

I am moving to Fuji Reala 100 which is the 2nd best print film on the market.

Kind regards,
BA
MHAP http://www.mhap.cjb.net
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:17 am

I just started a few months ago, and have 1 photo in the database.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ahmad Sadi



This is my best one so far, haven't gotten a confirmation yet though:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/A340nose.jpg

Welcome to Airliners.net Forums.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:34 am

Chris,
Overall, film is still better than digital. It will take time before digital completely outdates film.

One problem with digital is the variety of colors it has. Film is still capable of picking up more colors than digital can.

Another thing you have to think about is digital photos can become corrupt or damaged, and you will lose the photo completely.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:41 am

Hi!
As far as I know from the Forums AirNikon has a NIKON CP 880 as a secondary device, and I think I can remember that Mark has a digital SLR.
Peter
-
 
FastGlass
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:45 am

Do you currently have any SLR lenses? The Fuji S1 is a good option if you currently have AF Nikkors. Another affordable option to consider is the Canon EOS D30.

My personal opinion is that it is still too early to jump into dig SLRs, considering the prices that they demand (D1, D1X, D1H, etc.), plus a stable of lenses you will require.

I know that some of the names you mentioned do in fact use digital, either full-time or on a part-time basis, with excellent results. The other drawback to dig at this time is printing. Quality is impressive, but it is sure easier to get the slides/prints back all at once.

And thanks BA, we got to see your one picture again (with film).

PS. 5280, at DEN, shouldn't that be 5280MSL??
 
BA
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:51 am

Yeah, I don't really like that photo of mine, it turned out so grainy. So far my best results are with Fuji Film. I have been quite disappointed with Gold 100, it is just too grainy ESPECIALLY for 100 speed film.

Chris,
FastGlass is right, it is too early to go digital now. It has its little quirks still. If I were you, I would stick with film.

There is one lovely thing about digital. In my experience with digital, there is no grain whatsoever. I could be mistaken, this is my experience with the Sony Mavica FD-95 2.1MP.

However, you use Provia 100 or Kodachrome, and you will get MUCH MUCH better results than digital if you have the proper scanning equipment.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
5280AGL
Topic Author
Posts: 398
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:06 am

Yes, I know that film still has better resolution than digital, but isn't film quality limited to what your scanner can produce? It seems like scanned slides or prints lack the quality of digital, or is that because digital has one less process to go through?

Fastglass - Yes, DEN is 5,280 MSL, but my nick just means "mile-high", which was already taken. :>

--Chris--
 
BA
Posts: 10133
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:15 am

5280AGL,
Yes it does depend on your scanner. But a $150 scanner should bring you good results, you really don't need a super expensive one to get good results.

For example, I have quite a good scanner that has been giving me good results.

But it also has to do with the film you are using. Higher speed films like 400 look absolutely horrible when scanning them.

Don't go above 200. Infact it is best to stick with 100. If its a cloudy day, use 200, but no higher.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FastGlass
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:19 am

You are correct that digital cameras "avoid the middle man". When scanning a print, you are scanning a third generation image, which can often mean that you are at the mercy of whomever printed it. There is a margin of error. A slide scan is a second generation image, but dedicated slide scanners have optical resolutions of 2,800dpi+, whereas flatbed scanners don't come anywhere near that resolution unless it is interpolated resolution, which can severly degrade the scan.

The comparison of a scan to a digital image from a camera is directly related to the resolution. For example, a Nikon D1 has a maximum resolution of 2.7MP, which lacks the detail of a 3.34MP (or higher) camera for example. It's similar to having the ability to cram more crap into the same size bucket. Same thing for scans, scanning a print at 300dpi (or higher) cannot compare to the quality of a 2,800dpi scan of a slide. The simple reason for this is that a slide (or neg) is quite a bit smaller than a 4"X6" print, and requires higher scanning resolution.

Dig cams are certainly convenient, but I hate to see photogs jump into digital and spending thousands of dollars, before they have mastered the art of film SLRs. If you opt to start with film and dig some time down the road, I would suggest Nikon or Canon. That way you will already have the AF lenses that can be used on a dig SLR (of the same brand) when the resolution is up, and the prices are down.

Roger on the 5280MSL/AGL...
 
BA
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:26 am

Hmmmmmm.......I just realized that Pentax doesn't make Digital SLRs. I'm sure they will soon though.

Yeah FastGlass is right. Once I developed my film at this one Camera lab and they did a very poor job. There were scratches all over the print and lots of dirt. I had to spend almost an hour with the eye dropper tool to remove them.

I'm sticking with Safeway, I haven't had a single problem with them yet.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USAir_757
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:53 am

BA,

Pentax IS making a digital SLR...release in 2002 sometime...

It will have 6.1MP and a CCD the "same size" as a 35mm frame(this can be a disadvantage--it means you don't get that "zoom bost" with the current CCD's only 3/4 the size of a 35mm frame), based on the new MZ-S.


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
cfalk
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 5:44 am

The D1, Fuji S1, and Canon D30 have all been available since last summer or so. Does anyone have any news on the next generation of cameras? I am particularly interested in the next Canon offering, as I already have Canon lenses. I almost bought the D30 this weekend, but thought I would wait to see if something better comes out in the next few months.

If nothing significantly new comes out by this summer, I'll get the D30.

Any news?

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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Scooter
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 6:05 am

Charles, you might as well get the D30 now...there aren't even any rumors of a new model yet, so there is no way there will be a replacement by this summer.

The way I look at it: whether or not a new camera is coming, just buy one. Think of all the fun you'll have missed out on if you keep waiting!

You can always sell your 'old' D30 once something better comes out...there is quite a big market out there for second-hand digital SLRs, mainly because of the cost of buying one brand new.

My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing trip reports.
 
Tommy Mogren
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 6:41 am

I'm not even remotely considering switching to Digital.

I play around with digital once in a while, just for the fun.
But...I'm far from switching....

/Tommy Mogren
Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
mikephotos
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 7:00 am

I'd love to get a digital camera for the purpose of quick uploads of something new and hot but have no plans to go fulltime digital. For one, a main reason for my aviation/airliner shooting is the hobby of slide collecting, trading, etc.. Slide film (while available) will be my main source of shooting. The other purpose of my aviation/airliner shooting is for publication and ad use. Again, at this time, you can't do that with digital. While I'm sure that will probably change, chromes are what the editiors and art directors/buyers look for now.

So, yes you might see a digital in my camera bag within a year but it will only be a backup to film.

Michael
 
Dazed767
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 7:26 am

I've been looking at some recently (I use a Kodak DC-290 at work), and 8x10 prints are unbelieveable. While retail is about $700, I've found some online for around $350-$400. It's 2.1 megapixel, and does a great job....now what it could do for aviation pics is another question....
 
USAir_757
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:53 am

This is sort of off topic but I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I am strongly against digital cameras, I am almost against fully auto SLR's.

To me, the "instant" part takes the fun out of it. I enjoy scanning/editing but with a digital camera that part is omitted.

Some of you know this already, but here I go again:

I honestly hope they hit a wall soon and can no longer improve digital cameras. Slides forever.


Just my thoughts,
C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
FastGlass
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:56 am

It's a good thing you weren't around many decades ago when the unbelievers scoffed at color film and talking pictures...
 
USAir_757
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 10:12 am

I don't think digital will takeover slides--unless marketing creeps pull them off the market "because they aren't selling well."

Slides cannot be made from digital images, so what would slide traders do?

I will use digital if/when I have to but until then I will show no support for it.

C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 10:52 am

I recently purchased a Fuji S1 Pro as a backup body. I must say, I am very pleased with the results. However, I don't think going completely digital is something I am particularly interested in. I am mainly going to use my S1 for non-aviation purposes, just because of its practicality. The S1 does do a good job with aviation photography, but I think using digital kind of takes the "romance" or "art" out of it.

Will digital eventually replace film? I don't know, as far as I know, this could just be a passing fad. But, it sure makes a neat toy.  Smile

If you plan on just being a enthusiast photographer, sure, go for the digital... In the long run it may save you money. But, if you want to eventually get some of your work published or sell/trade slides, definetely go for a film SLR.

Aric Thalman
Omaha, NE
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
brownphoto
Posts: 149
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 12:36 pm

As a pro photog who has converted to a completely digital system, I want to remind you that the decision of film/digital is entirely yours and yours alone.

We can put in our thoughts and ideas, but you need to try both before you make a decision.

I would like to refute what one writer wrote - YOU CAN MAKE SLIDES FROM DIGITAL OUTPUT. I have done it many,many times.

I shoot with a Coolpix 990, and a D1, because I had Nikon equipment before and the quality from both cameras is fantastic!

Joe Brown

 
Glenn
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 10:26 pm

OK, I have gone fully digital. Reason. No longer do I have to wait to have my negs scratched or prints printed in some foreign colour. No longer do I have to wait and wait for the results.

As far as slides go. Yes thery can be done, and done good. I have prints made from the lowest resolution ( on my camera anyway) and it made a good copy without to much degradation to A3. The 35 mm neg would have done well to hold together so well.

Here is a few shots, taken today at Sydney. A 3 hour drive + from there to my door. I have the shots, I know which are good and crap and it costs me nothing in the form of film or processing anymore.

I can have prints printed in aviation magazines. (current Raaf news, Australian Aerospace, Pacific wings and classic wings soon to go to press and at least one English Aviation magazine.) All from sending digital Images. And it is printed with the full range of tonal ranges that you can't do wioth negs.

I had to use my Nikon F801 today as my battery supply died (my fault) 500+ shots will do that  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I have never been so annoyed at having to shoot film.

Anyway, the shots here are all taken at the cameras lowest resolution and all 12 submitted were uploaded. Given Airliners tough acceptance, wouldn't you say that digital was worth it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Obviously not all will agree as I was once a firm believer in only medium format as a minimum before going back to 35mm


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Glenn Alderton



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Glenn Alderton



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Glenn Alderton



Cheers

Glenn
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Mon Apr 16, 2001 11:58 pm

I'm now shooting both, digital and slide. I'm using a F90 plus a Fuji S1 and I love the results. For all of my "imagey" stuff, I shoot this on digital as it is for me and only me. For trading, where I want to shoot full frame, then I go with slide.

Even if digital doesn't last, I'm having a whale of a time playing with the S1. It is termendous fun, and the results you can get are amazing. I've checked with some of the mags that I shoot for and they now accept digital. BTW, if you are shooting digital, you should also invest in a CD-ROM Writer, so you can burn all of your shots onto CD Roms.

Some examples of what the S1 can do (adn as Glenn said, the resolution is at the lowest!):


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt





Full frame always beats post processing
 
Thom@s
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:34 am

Glenn, that shot in the middle is amazing. Nice picture.  Big thumbs up

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
tappan
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 1:17 am

One advantage I see from Digital is that it makes a telephoto lens bigger...In other words this moon/Air India photo was aided tremendously by the fact that my 1200mm lens (in digital format) became an 1800mm lens...
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Mark Garfinkel


Camera:Canon Digital SLR
Lens:600F4 Canon
PLUS a 2x Teleconverter=1800mm
Mark G
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:30 am

The storage of digital photos is a large issue. Will CD's be around in 20 years in their current format? Definitely not! There may be CD's but in a totally different format(DVD format prehaps?), and I suspect backwards compatibility will be non existant.

5.25" floppies came out 20 years ago, and at one point were the only "permanent" storage media for personal computers. You can't even buy the drives anymore.

Then what about connections? USB is still going strong but I suspect that it will be long gone to FireWire in 5 years.

Digital cameras will forever remain impractical in my mind. Go ahead, laugh at me if you want, diss me if you want, but I enjoy every aspect of film photography, most of those aspects will be gone with digital.


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Glenn
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:50 am

even if the media format is not compatable, you can dump it back to the hard drive and re burn it.

same as 51/4 to 3.25. yoou don't loose the info, only the technology

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
brownphoto
Posts: 149
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 6:02 am

Dear Mr. Wassell:

You are certainly not alone in your thinking about digital. Many, many pros feel the same way you do.

Yes indeed, I fell in love with my darkroom the first time I saw a Black and White print come up in the developer tray!

But, as my business has grown and evolved over the years, (15 years shooting professionally), much of the technology that I use has changed, and I, as most photgraphers, have changed with it, or the competition would leave us in the dust and unemployed.

So, I only ask the same consideration you have asked - do not diss nor laugh at those of us who have gone digital.

Joe Brown

PS To Glenn - Excellent shots. Which camera are you using, and what setting do you mean by "lowest resolution"?

 
Glenn
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:05 am

It's a fuji S1 Pro

Lowest resolution is the jpeg mode that uses about 200Kb instead of the 17 meg Tiff file  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards

Glenn
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:13 am

I am not trying to "diss" or "laugh at" people who have gone digital, I just get frustrated when so many people on this site are going to it.

I could have said "Glenn you idiot, go back to film" or "hahaha Joe, digital sucks--its for impatient people!" but I'm not that kind of person.

Don't get me wrong, digital IS convinient, and takes some good pictures, but I just don't like it.


I meant nothing to the photographers by any of my posts - just making my feelings known  Smile


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Glenn
Posts: 1454
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:23 am

No offence taken.......

Just digital photos  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

ha ha gee i'm funny

Glenn
 
brownphoto
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:36 am

No offense here too.

Joe Brown

 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:06 am

haha Glenn  Wink/being sarcastic

Glad I didn't offend anyone...


C. Wassell
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

FAO Andrew

Tue Apr 17, 2001 11:17 pm

Hi Andrew

What gives you the right to go out and get a camera like the S1??

Your shots are good enough as it is Big grin

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 8:06 am

Gary,

Just did some ramp shooting in the pouring rain when the sun came out.............what a combination. Results to be uploaded tomorrow. And it wouldn't have mattered what equipment you use!

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

FAO Andrew

Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:16 pm

Hi Andrew

Looking forward to seeing your 'after the rain' shots.

There is one shot I like of yours, remember the SQ A340 with the sun shining through the stormcloud in the background?

Any chance of scanning this for the Airliners site? I know a lot of people would like to see it. I was stunned the first time.

Talk soon.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 6:10 pm

For me, it would not be a matter of digital "being as good as film" ... it would have to be considerably better! I'm not anti-digital as such, but I am against replacing my existing kit with digital kit unless I could see a significant advantage.

As far as I can see the "convenience" factor doesn't work, once you take into account the hassle with battery charging, memory sticks, PC interconnects etc.

If I were starting from scratch, I'd sure be tempted, but dollar for dollar I think you will still get much better value and quality from traditional kit.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:30 pm

Gary,

I have uploaded the shot you asked for, I'll let you know when Johan either accepts or rejects it!

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Fri Apr 20, 2001 7:36 am

Gary,

I believe that this is the shot you were talking about


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt



Enjoy!

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Pro's Going Digital?

Fri Apr 20, 2001 4:18 pm

Hi Andrew

Yep....that's the one.

Regards

Gary

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