Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:10 pm

Hi all

A controversial subject maybe.

The screeners, Johan and myself have been discussing the possibility of the screeners screening the travel list.

There are some of us for and against it.

I would like all your thoughts on this, particularly for those who may think they are on the travel list.

Regards to all

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:22 pm

Oh boy, we start with the travel "VIP list" again......

Who are the ones on the travel list. Will they be outed now?

It was a while back when the travel list issue came up and Johan said that only experienced photographers who have uploaded for a long time are on this list.

He hardly has to give out warnings or rejections.

Fair would be to hv all people treated the same way, but considering that all photographers will be screened before their upload would it still be possible to have new photos added every day?

It's up to Johan as it is his site.

Vasco Garcia



 
Blackened
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:19 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:29 pm

I would say it's OK if only Johan looks at the pictures. That's more or less the sense of that list: It doesn't need too much screening and there are no loads of bad quality pics. But I hope Johan does look at all the pictures from the travel list and makes a rejection if necessary.
If you look at the que and you see there are no pictures processed in front of you but there are still pictures added you can easily guess who's on the travel list. It also worked with the date. When it took two weeks for a picture to be processed but there were pics taken two days ago the photographer must be on the travel list.
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:54 pm

Hi Vasco

>>>Fair would be to have all people treated the same way, but considering that all photographers will be screened before their upload would it still be possible to have new photos added every day?<<<

New photos will be still added every day. There is now a button that has been added to the screener page to allow direct upload of 'High Quality Images' I think this will come into force once Johan is confident that the screeners can handle this option well.

Yes, Johan has the ultimate say if a shot if kept or rejected.

Again, the travel list was set up for Johan to work on while he was away on business/holiday. This was to keep things ticking over.

Now that we have very capable screeners, maybe the time has come for Johan to give up the travel list?

The ultimate goal is for Airliners.net to carry on being the biggest quality aviation photography website on the net

Still lot's to think about.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:58 pm

Well as I was the one who bought the subject up in the first place I would say screen them just like all the other shots submitted. That way were all be playing to the same rules.

Judging by the turnaround time of the screeners its not going to effect the daily upload by Johan and anyway their shots are so good they wont be rejected will they?  Laugh out loud

The travel list members wont be worried or should they Vasco?  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards

Paul

Thanks for listening Johan and Screeners to my initial post on the matter.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:03 pm

For fairness and application of identical standards across the board, the persons on the travellist should be screened by the sceeners as well.
The travellist might then also be abandoned, especially if the queue stays low (this morning it was back to over 1000, that is I assume without the travellist).

One concern might be that the screeners are likely on the travellist themselves. Noone profits by people screening their own photos. Some sort of filter should be provided to prevent that (plus maybe implement a way to make the screener not see the name of the photographer).
I wish I were flying
 
Eduard
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:03 pm

I am certainly on the travel list. I have no objections if my photos were checked by the screeners. As they probably take more time to check the photos I would even prefer this idea. QUALITY is more important than QUANTITY. I am always glad to get some advices for improving (I hope they will do so).
Only one thing should be considered for artistic shots: if the scan is ok the photo should be passed over to Johan for the definite decision and not be bombed out, because the screener don't like it.

regards, Eduard
new user is EchoMike
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:09 pm

Here it is since my own topic just got archived:

It just occured to me that it would be in everyones best intrest to abolish the travel list. That way people who have trouble getting thier photos accpeted wouldn't have to wait for weeks on end to get their photos processed...only to find out they've been rejected. Im not ranting since I have 3 pics in the database but I think it would eliminate some of frustration that alot of people have been expressing these last few months.

I know it's Johans site and he can do what he wishes(and I respect that) but I dont think people who have thousands of pics in the database and have no trouble getting theirs should recieve special treatment since for them aceptences are nothin special.
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:09 pm

Hi Eduard

In my eyes, you would have nothing to worry about  Smile

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:10 pm

Good point, Eduard. Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this.
A chopped nose or tail are OK with me, but I got a noseshot rejected for esthethics only, which IMO should be up to Johan and noone else. I think others have similar experiences.
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:12 pm

Jwenting:

lol, I though this topic was about " possibility of the screeners screening the travel list". I didn't read your post.
 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:15 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:15 pm

I think the fair way would be to screen/upload the pix in the order recieved. That way there would be no need for a "travel" list (or "favorites" list as i call it).

If their pics are always good anyway, I dont see what difference it would make.

Some people wait up to a month, while others have their photos up in a matter of hours. Something has to be improved. Its good to know ya'll are thinking about it.

B
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:25 pm

Why should people who have been loading photos here for years be suddnely treated the same as everyone else. They have had to do the same at a time when this site was not so popular and helped to make this site what it is today. With out these people it might be dead and buried. No i think with these people they should get the treatment they deserve as they have made this site. They have done and proven what a lot of other people cannot and that is place high quality photos with the minimum of warnings. So some poeple one day might stop complaining about the travel list and get on with doing some good photos instead of whinging and whining about why my photos never made the grade
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:30 pm

F27, afraid of loosing preferential treatment?
I have nothing against the people on the list, or most of their shots (though the occasional substandard ones do get by).
As I see it there are 2 options open at this time: either Johan changes the upload FAQ that reads "everyone is treated equally" or the travellistmembers do indeed get the same treatment as everyone else.
If the screeners are doing a good job, which is for Johan to decide, only shots of equivalent quality to those from people on the travellist will ever make it to his screen, so the purpose of having a group of people that can be checked on from substandard equipment quickly will be gone.
Maybe for emergencies the list should be maintained as a backup (for example, all the screeners for some reason don't do a job for a week leaving Johan without a supply of photos to upload) but such situations should be rare.
I wish I were flying
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:45 pm

I am saying these people have been here from the start and have proven themselves now it is up to the new breed to do the same so i recon they should get better treatment. this site has only taken off in the last 12 months a lot of these people have been coming since the beginnning and have made this site what it is. So when the new breed get it right then they will also be given the trsvel list treatment but it is like all young ones today want it all without having to do the hardballs.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:55 pm

Thanks for calling me young  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The travellist was created not to honour these people, but for technical and business reasons. Those reasons no longer exist so unless the meaning of the list is changed into some sort of " official mark of excellence" there is no reason to continue it.
That is what I meant, and I think Gary as well.
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:55 pm

F27

You have a BIG point there....

Andreas
 
Guest

F27

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:03 pm

No offence but the quality of the photos from the first two years (1998 &1999) really isin't that good. Hell I could produce the same on my crappy flatbed. Getting those photos acepted when the standards were still low was no problem. The fact is that it didnt take any balls to get photos on the database back them(or at least it dosent look like it too me) whereas getting them here now takes some serious hardballs and equipment. Just because the travel listers submited a bunch of 640x480 pics with max compression then dosent mean they should get any special treatment now. Anone struggling now could have dont the same back then.
 
KingWide
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 7:30 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:26 pm

Guys,

How practical would it be to do some kind of partial screening of submissions?

By this I mean that newbies would be 100% screened and then, as they pass some quality / rejection milestones, the percentage of their pictures which are screened decreases. Ultimately this percentage could go down to 0 [which is where the existing travel listers would start].

Likewise, failing to meet the standards would increase your screening percentage.

Complex I know, but it would seem that this allows those who are on the list to keep their elevated position but only if they continue to justify the reasons for their inclusion. Likewise the allegations of favouritism would disappear since the only reason you're on/off the list would be as a result of your submissions.

I think the phrase is 'You're only as good as your last picture'  Big grin

J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:28 pm

Makes no odds to me if I'm on the travel list or not - I upload when it suits me, if they're good enough they get in, if they aren't they don't. Whether it takes 2 days or 2 weeks is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not a steady flow of new images is possible without a travel list. The travel list, as I understand it, is not for the benefit of a few photographers, but rather a few hundred thousand visitors who expect to see something new each time they arrive at the site.

To those who seem to find the travel list offensive, well, life isn't fair. Get used to it. To those who fear removal from the travel list - tough. Any professional photographer will tell you, you're only as good as your last assignment. Each shot should be judged on its own merits.

What matters here is whether or not the travel list stills serves a purpose for the site as a whole or whether there are better alternatives.

But whatever happens, there will still be people bitching about how long they have to wait or someone getting preferential treatment. Please grow up.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
george
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:41 pm

Hi guys,

I'm on the travel list (I think).

The travel list is an instrument for Johan on busy hours as explained many times. If the skills from the pre-screeners are high enough than it doesn't matter who's photo's he takes, they are all of the same quality.
So the reason for the list is gone and the fair system first in first out wil happen.

Oke then I also have to wait but I don't care I know the mails.

Just my two cents,
George Polfliet

 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:52 pm

JTwenting wrote: "Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this"

Johan has asked us to screen in this way, and that's what we are doing. The original remit for the screeners was to attempt to get rid of the huge backlog of photos waiting in the queue, and was quite clear. We were to weed out all the obviously susbstandard pictures from the queue. However, this remit has subsequently changed at Johan's request, and we are now expected to apply standards when screening pictures that are closer to Johan's own. He has given us guidance on a number of issues since we began screening, and that includes certain pictures that clearly do not make it because of aesthetic qualities, and also now the "common" rejection reason.

I notice that even though the screeners are being more strict in what is allowed through (again, I stress this is at Johan's request), the number of comments and emails saying "you have unfairly rejected my picture" has gradually decreased. This tells me that, in the main, we are getting the rejection standards roughly right.

As to screening the travel list (getting back to the TOPIC!): I am one of the screeners who has said I would be happy to do so. However, I do have a concern that there are people on the T.L. who are used to getting virtually all their pictures added to the db. And I can see a potential problem for *us* if we start rejecting the odd pics, in that some of them might be of the opinion "who is this screener who has only been doing the job for 5 minutes? What does he know about photography - I've been taking pictures and submitting them with no problems for years".
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:55 pm

Hi all

Thanks for all your comments so far on this thread.

Please remember...........it's only a discussion at this moment in time. No decisions have been made.

Regards to all

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:04 pm

Didn't get that broadening of your authorities, I guess. Must have happened either while I was away or the annoucement got swamped and I did not see it.
If the people on the travellist are afraid to have their shots screened by you, there is all the more reason for that screening I'd guess  Innocent

P.S. Can some more clarification be given on the "common" reason. Does this include all shots at the same location or only shots in the same position (e.g. would a departure shot be common if a 'standard' rampshot is already in the system?).
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:07 pm

Remember, we're not talking about getting *rid* of the travel list, just whether the pictures in it should be screened before Johan sees them. This shouldn't make much difference to the vast majority of these pics being added to the db, nor the amount of time it takes to add them. We are just talking about these pictures being viewed by the screeners to weed out any that are obviously poor quality (where have I heard that before?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

Now, Johan has already talked about the possibility that the screeners will eventually be able to add obviously high quality pictures directly to the db. So if the travel list pics are almost all of high enough quality, then here's another idea. How about the screeners screening the travel list pics separately from the rest, and each pic can either be given an "OK" or a "?" rating with a checkbox. Johan can then review these, paying particular attention to those that the screener has a question-mark over. In time this could be extended so that the travel list pictures that are obviously OK would be added directly by the screeners, and those that are questionable can be reviewed by Johan (kind of the opposite to the way the existing screening works).
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:15 pm

JT:

the common reason is for borderline shots that are of a common aircraft. For a long time it has said on the upload-FAQ that it's easy to get rare shots accepted and more difficult to get common ones accepted. Well, there are a lot of shots that are around the borderline of what's acceptable and what isn't, and what the common reason is for is this.

If we find a shot that is borderline, and there are a lot of similar shots of that EXACT aircraft already in the database, then the shot is likely to be rejected with "common". It doesn't apply where there are only a handful of shots, or similar shots of a DIFFERENT aircraft, or where the picture is of obviously high quality. But it is particularly useful for pictures of, for example, Continental Peter Max, Qantas Wunala Dreaming, Delta Soaring Spirit, ANA Pokemon etc. because *everybody* takes these, there are *lots* of good quality photos of all of them already in the database.

Everybody uploads even mediocre quality shots of these special schemes - because they are really happy to have seen them. But the last thing we need in the database is a lot more borderline shots of these aircraft. So if the picture is high quality it goes in, if it's obviously LOW quality it gets a standard rejection, and if it's only hovering around the borderline (unless there's anything special to distinguish it from the rest) then it gets rejected as "common".
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:31 pm

Just a couple of points...
1.) If any photographer on a.net has a shot that he/she thinks is - A.) Timely due to it's news value. I.E An incident, not neccesarily a calamity. Like a fuel dumping photo etc.- or B.) Timely because it is a well lit nicely photographed rainbow, lightning, Full moon, snow storm etc- or C.) Timely because of rare occurence...maybe a Concorde landing in Providence, RI USA Etc....Then that photographer should be able to notify the screener(s) to try and push the upload time faster.
2.) Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is good) keep any politics or favorites out of it.
Mark Garfinkel
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:45 pm

Mark wrote:
"2.) Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is good) keep any politics or favorites out of it."

Nice point Mark, even though the screeners don't know who it is......how many photographers can shoot a 747 crossing the half moon over Boston.....

Then it becomes really clear who the photo belongs to, same with others......some well known photographers have a certain style, like Craig Murray or Joe Pries etc.....and then it is very obvious who the owner of this photograph is.

Vasco
l
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:00 pm

Vasco,
We miss ya here in BOS  Smile  Smile  Smile
MG
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:08 pm

Thanks for the clarification S4. I'd love to shoot those specialties, sadly they never show at AMS for some reason (which is the only place I visit due to time and cost constraints) except the Transavia URL one that is at home here.
I wish I were flying
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:11 pm

Mark wrote:

"Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is good) keep any politics or favorites out of it"

The travel list screen follows the same format of the other screen for uploading.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland

 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:41 am

The travel list screen follows the same format of the other screen for uploading.

For those of us that dont upload/screen does that mean you can see who the photographer is?

I think you should let me screen the "travel list" then there would be no favouritism, well apart from my shots of course  Wink/being sarcastic Thats actually a serious offer if you want to take it up...........

Regards

Paul
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:46 am

Hi all

What I meant to say was that ALL photographers names are visible in the upload screening process.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland

 
round_engine
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:32 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:46 am

I'm guilty of being on the "Travel List". I thought that the pre-screening was set up to weed out the obvious "problem pics". Am I correct assuming that "Travel List" folks normally don't submit "problem pics"? If this is correct, then what is the purpose of adding workload for the screeners? I keep hearing how this will speed things up. I believe it will have the opposite effect since the screeners will have even a larger workload. So what's the point? Appease the whiners? If so, they will find something else that's "not fair" to whine and complain about. I went for months getting 100% of my submissions rejected. Did I whine on this forum? No, I did something far more constructive.....I read all of the good information about scanning technique, software, etc that appears regularly on this forum and applied it to my submissions. Amazing...... my accept rate went from 0% to almost 100%. The next thing you know, I'm on the "Travel List". I'm not a professional photographer, I don't have $5,000 worth of equipment, and do most of my photography in conjunction with aviation articles I write.

In the US, we have a small group of "professional complainers" and their lawyers. These folks are against everything no matter how beneficial it might be to society as a whole. To appease this small group of "complainers" and make sure that their "rights" aren't violated, we now have the most "over-lawyered" society that has ever existed. I hope that Johan realizes that the "whiners" will always whine and that they represent just a small, but very vocal, minority of the folks that use and enjoy this website.
v/r
Ralph Pettersen
 
Craigy
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 6:24 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:58 am

Hi,
I would prefer one or two screeners to be empowered to add pictures when Johan is away.
That way we would still get pictures added, but everyone would get moved up the queue together.
Craig.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 4:20 am

Ralph, that was the original idea, but if you read the other posts, you will find their authority has now been broadened to do an almost complete screening and may in the near future include the possibility to accept shots under certain conditions.
I wish I were flying
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:24 am

My opinion, if it counts for anything  Big grin, is that I agree with the screeners screening the travel list as long as they don't screen their own photos.

Agreeing with others, lately I'm seeing photos of lower quality from the big names. That's why I agree with a more dynamic "travel list", with the possibility of new members and/or suspension of present members.

Luis
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:35 am

"Agreeing with others, lately I'm seeing photos of lower quality from the big names"

==========

just curious- which lower quality photos from the big names? i dont think i have seen that from the big names but can you put some up so we can see Luis? I saw Andy Hunt's today, nice stuff, mclaughlins last update was nice- if one of mine, i'd like to see it too- i dont like putting up low quality stuff and if i have mistakingly done so i'd want to see an opinion as to why and what can be done to improve the shot (or maybe bad scanning which happens at times).

Thanks
Joe
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:48 am

Joe, is not a matter of scanning quality but of subject. It's my opinion, I'll not tell names, sorry.

I'm talking about some repetitive compositions but I'll keep this to myself, I don't see the necessity of telling names. Others have been telling the same, I don't understand why did you choose me.

I just want the guys of the travel list not to be accommodated.

Luis
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 6:31 am

I agree with Round Engine some of the people here just cannot help them selves. Because they have a few rejections and are not taking high quality shots they whinge because they have been rejected. As i stated these people on the travel list have earnt the right to be there and should stay as others improve and get it right then YOU WILL be added. It is like starting a new job you have to start at the bottom and prove your self.
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:52 am

Your discussion makes no sense to me. The prescreeners were tasked to limit the amount of lower quality prints that Johan needs to weed through to get through the queue.

Those people on the travel list (and I am not one of them), were put there because their photographs are of a consistantly good quality.

Therefore, why do they need to be prescreened and what advantage to anyone would the prescreening of these photographers achieve?

I would suggest there would be no advantage and a number of disadvantages and it's not a particularly nice way to reward their loyalty.

However, that being said. I would suggest the best way to decide this issue would be to ask those people on the travel list, after all .. it affects them not us.




VH-ADG
 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:15 pm

Lower Quality From The Big Names

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:06 am

i just posted earlier in the week about one from frank schafer:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer



here one of yers i think is joe, please dont be offended, yer one of my favorite photographers, but...

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries


i know, i know, its the concorde that crashed. but there IS a fence in the way, and its not the best of angles.

never quite understood this one either:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries


its pretty grainy too...


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Allan Rossmore


dont know if he is on the "favorites list" but i dont see how this pic was taken.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto


another fence in the way.

theres some...

B

 
Blackened
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:19 am

Trouble!

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:16 am

I can see trouble arriving after BOTCH's post! But those pics are definitely something we should think about and there are more of them. It's Johan's site - deal with it!
Don't know if this thread is gonna be here for a long time.
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back
 
Guest

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:19 am

Quote from Granite:

There is now a button that has been added to the screener page to allow direct upload of 'High Quality Images' I think this will come into force once Johan is confident that the screeners can handle this option well.

This would explain the reason why TL shots should be "screened". Some comments on this thread has gone off tangent and appears to be irrelevant.
"Not a particularly nice way to reward their loyalty"....is a strange comment ADG.



Gerry/EDI


 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:15 pm

RE: Trouble!

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:24 am

Sorry, I know I'm gonna get a can of whoop ass opened on me, but Joe asked.

Where I'm coming from is, we all take some bad shots now and again. But, should the fine photographers on the travel list have even their sub-par work accepted?

Again, I just dont see why the photos can't be uploaded in the order recieved. I believe thats the only fair way. No preferential treatment, no whining.

And, it is after all, Johans site. If he's is gonna take what he wants, thats fine. Just be up front about it.

Ok, now let me have it, but try to keep the gloves up and no biting! Big grin
 
Blackened
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 4:19 am

Acceptance As Loyalty Reward?

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:35 am

Yeah, I saw Joe asking for low quality shots by him but in his eyes they are quality because he uploaded them and Johan thinks the same. I wonder what Joe will say now. Hope this post won't be deleted.
My suggestion would be nobody, neither Johan nor the screeners should see the name of the photographer.
ADG:
Is this about loyalty? This is a very interesting statement and I hope no official of this site thinks like that. "Let's accept the shot because it's number 1000+x by that photographer!" - ha, ha. That's not the way it goes and I hope not Johan's opinion. There are thousands of photographers out there waiting for their chance.
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back
 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:15 pm

Good Idea!

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:39 am

I agree Blackened...a fair way would be for no one to see who the photgrapher is...but is it possible?

I hope this wont get locked or deleted either. We are all brainstorming, and that's a healthy thing...

B
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:46 am

What an interesting topic indeed! But where do I start?!

The whole idea of the "travel list" seems to have escaped some people. It is not a list of "preferred photographers" nor professionals. As stated many times above it is a list that was designed for Johan to use while travelling to allow regular updates to the site. Nothing more, nothing less. If ANYONE has a special picture of a very rare or new and unique livery all you have to do is e-mail Johan and let him know about it and chances are it will be added as soon as possible give the exclusivety of the image. Same rules apply here for everyone, although at times I often wonder if it is actually the case when I look through the new uploads. I had a shot rejected just yesterday, a shot that certain photographers take more often than me and it was rejected. Why, low asthetic qualities. So, I can understand how easy it is for beginners to get frustrated. But, rejection is about improvement..... trust me. Have a look at some of my earlier work, it's awful!!! But, the site was alot different back then and times have changed so I had to change with them.

Here is my first shot at airliners.net


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray



And here is my latest!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray



Notice the difference????

Now, back to the issue at hand. I would have no problem at all having my work screened by the screeners. However I am concerned at getting rejections similar to the one's Peter Unmuth got for his BA 757 shot recently for the a/c not being level in comparison to the horizon and also for being too dark. I looked at the shots in question and couldn't believe they had been rejected given that they were both fantastic shots and of very high quality (in my opinion!). This is not to say I do not approve of the screeners, I believe they have done a terrific job in reducing the amount of shots in the queue and will ultimately make this a better site for us all by way of upload times and fairness to ALL photographers who submit work. After all, the travel list is just that..... nothing more.

And getting photos uploaded is not about skill, equipment, being professional etc etc etc. It is about hard work and determination.... I started with the basics and saved as hard as I could over the years to end up with the gear I have today, which is by no means "out of reach" to your average Joe Blow! But from your hard work and saving you will get rewards (and yes alot is possible from this site - no details to be provided as I do not want to "show off" like some others do - it's irrelevant to everyone here).

Just yesterday I got an e-mail from someone telling me that my photos are of bad quality and that I should be submitting work to the standards of Chris Sheldon or Andrew Hunt (both of whom I consider outstanding photogs too!). I wish I had a digital camera too, but at this point in time I do not and thus cannot compete "quality" wise that I openly admit. Maybe he saw this pic and decided to write to me. Either way I'm not phased by the e-mail, but the writer had a valid point..... that I accept!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray



This shot is dedicated to all those people that have stood in torrential rain just to get ONE shot of a plane you hadn't seen before or needed to get for one reason or another. That's why I submitted it, I don't wait for perfect skies and the sun at my back to take photos ALL the time...... after all not every day can be perfect and I don't need perfect conditions to take photos. I'm sure those who do the same know exactly what I am talking about here.

I believe this is a fantastic topic for discussion, and am certainly keen to be the first person to volunteer to come off the "travel list" and have my photos screened just like everyone else. Rejection does not concern me, improving myself does. Like everyone else, I learn from my mistakes.... I don't whinge about making them.

Being one who is open to change I am more than happy to allow the screeners to view/screen my images before reaching the desk of "Sir J"! I think they are doing a PHAT and PHANTASTIC job and deserve to be commended. Reject my shots and then see how my opinion changes, NOT! Big grin

Kind Regards,
Craig Murray
A.net contributor since 1998 (now with 4000+ crap photos online!).
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:00 am

One point that seems to have been forgotten is that being on the travel list is not certain acceptance. It is, as Johan has described it elsewhere, itself a sort of pre-screen - that is, names are added who normally produce consistent work, allowing Johan to process through the input more quickly. Travel list pics can still and do get rejected.

In effect, the travel list is doing exactly what the screeners do already, the only difference being that the those on the travel list are effectively doing their own pre-screening.

In many ways, the introduction of screeners means that everyone is on the travel list, since the net effect is the same - a "filtered" collection of pics for Johan to view.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Screening The Travel List

Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:04 am

The screeners were put there for that task (reducing the queue). Now if they were able to screen AND upload those people on the travel lists photos then the turn around time actually has the potential to decrease rather than increase. That is the way I see it.

And, allowing them to screen our work would mean we were on a level playing field with everyone else. To me, that is a very fair system.... for EVERYONE. Should Johan go away for any period of time he could use the list then, however as the competence of the screeners grows I really have to question the list's existence. After all, if our photos ARE good enough they won't be rejected anyway so why worry!!!! Know what I mean?

I expect nothing from this site and if anything all I'd ask for in return for my loyalty is an a.net cap!! Big grin

Like many others, to me, this is just a fun place to display our photos. It's not about loyalty or VIP treatment or selling photos, it's about fun and sharing. I'm just your average Joe Blow and don't mind getting the same treatment as the next Joe Blow!

CM

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