AviationIvi
Topic Author
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:24 am

Hi guys,
just recieved an email from the airliners.de admin who wrote that he could find a site where on of my pics is published. There are some things changed and I´m not sure if they are allowed to do it? Please take a look! Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ivica Ramljak - FRA Spotting



here´s the site where it is used:
http://www.ftd.de/ub/di/FTD1K5X36VC.html?nv=tn-rs

photo:
http://www.ftd.de/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=LargeImagePage&artid=FTD1K5X36VC&actimage=1&nv=image1

Regards from FRA
Ivica
 
Fredrik Hjort
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:40 am

If it is your shot that they publish without permission it's illegal... I noticed that it says "BerlinJet" as source of the image so I recommend you to contact the site and ask where they got the image from - maybe the airline is "using it" as PR, then it's even worse!?

/Fredrik
 
Fredrik Hjort
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:43 am

And the fact that it's manipulated doesn't change anything - it's still your original shot that they stole and published without permission  Pissed

/Fredrik
 
Guest

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:44 am

Certainly not.

No permission = not legal.

Gerry/EDO
 
AviationIvi
Topic Author
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 4:30 am

Hi,
thanks for your replies. It´s the fact that they changed some things that makes me uncertain.
However, it is my pic and they didn´t aks for permission.

Any more replies/thoughts appreciated...

Regards,
Ivi
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 4:36 am

It is illegal if the picture was copyrighted and no written permission was given by the copyright-holder (Ivica Ramljak). Because the picture was altered (different c/s) the offense is even greater. Aside from the pic being used without permission (1 illegal action) the pic was also altered and was given an INCORRECT source. If i recall that is called purgery.
As a result, the counter for offenses on this matter is now on 3.

It IS definately illegal and the producers of the website should be pointed out to this and they should be charged (if you want to get money for the pic) Or, if you do not want to recieve a payment, the picture should be removed from the website.

Please, someone correct me if i'm wrong!

Goodluck on this matter,

Regards
Wietse/AMS
Wietse de Graaf
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 4:43 am

I've been doing some comparing, it IS an altered version of your original. The following things are indicators:
The Delta MD11 on the background, the bird (?) in the grass (left front) and in general the environment. You can also see the marks Paintshop left on the fusalage (where the new c/s was applied)

Wietse/AMS
Wietse de Graaf
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 4:54 am

Ivica,
send them an email and attach the two pics (your original and their theftjob)- tell them that they must pay you market rate or your lawyer will be in touch with them and you will expose this all over the internet that they are stealing poor peoples pictures in order not to pay- that should wake em up.

Joe
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 5:58 am

That is good advice from Joe. I think you should follow it.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Fredrik Hjort
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 10:50 pm

Wietse

Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:28 am

Just a quick comment: "if the picture was copyrighted" - you don't need to register copyright, it's your right!

/Fredrik
 
AviationIvi
Topic Author
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 5:48 pm

Hello,
thanks for your replies, guys!

I´m in contact with the newspaper first, and other steps will follow.

Regards,
Ivi
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2991
Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 4:26 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:10 pm

The question is, who used the pics, Financial Times (I would think they knew better, otherwise it's big $$$ for you!), or the wannabe-airline CEO's.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
AviationIvi
Topic Author
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RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:14 pm

"Financial Times ( I would think they knew better...)"

Hi Konstantin,
that´s why I contacted them first.
CU
Ivi
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2991
Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 4:26 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:54 pm

Funny that they bother to do such a photo themselves.
I would also think that the guys who plan to set up the airline would maybe choose a more colorful livery.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:04 pm

Sorry, perhaps I am doing something wrong, but I cant' see the picture on the mentioned website.

Has it been deleted?

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:13 pm

Obviously they removed the picture. There was a thumbnail sized one in the article (Ivi's first link) too, which is now also gone.
Peter
-
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:29 pm

common rate for using a shot if no permission is asked first is TWICE current market rate.
Once for the use, and once again for the trouble of going after them.
If you want to do further business with them, it is of course prudent to be lenient in case of a first offense  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I wish I were flying
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:39 pm

Who knows if this is first offence or not?
Hit them.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Wed Dec 19, 2001 8:35 pm

Just an idea: Perhaps it wasn't FTD who stole the picture. It's also possible that they got it from Berlinjet or the people who intend to start up this airline.

Perhaps they have taken the picture from airliners.net and put their livery on it to give it to the press.

I think this would make more sense. And FTD would be right by quoting Berlinjet as source. They just didn't know that the pic was from airliners.net.

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
AviationIvi
Topic Author
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:58 am

Gerardo, here´s the picture if you would like to compare them:


Airways: Sure, it´s not FTD that has stolen it. The FTD editor has written that they got the pic from Berlinjet.

Regards,
Ivi
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2991
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RE: Is This Legal?

Thu Dec 20, 2001 5:28 am

Being students, they probably won't pay you now, but if they ever take to the skies (which I doubt), I see some free tickets coming your way.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
carmy
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:00 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 1:13 am

Students? What students? You mean the picture was done by students? If it was, don't expect much in compensation from them then. The courts are usually quite sympathetic towards students in such cases.

If not, it's a clear case of copyright infringement. I don't understand German, but if they've stolen your intellectual property, by all means, go get seek legal counsel. You should win this hands down.
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 1:20 am

I thin Konstantin was refering to the fact that the two so called CEOs of ths wanna be airline are students and are about i think 23 yrs or something like that.
Peter
-
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2991
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RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:46 am

Yes, Peter is right, that's what I meant.
23 year old and airline CEO's... Hey, I'll turn 30 next year, and who knows, Juergen Weber is retiring in 2003 and I might be his successor!  Wink/being sarcastic

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 7:13 am

Ivica, thanks for posting the picture. I don't have anything to add to the fact, that this is you pic, and BTW not very good manipulated.

What can I say. It's annoying, and I for one would do everything to squezze as much as I could get out of those wannabes. If aircraft photographing is your hobby - as it is mine - , then you don't rely on any customer, as for example Berlin Air.

Try to get at least some free tickets, but above all, try to get all the facts together.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
AviationIvi
Topic Author
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:49 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 7:49 am

Hello!

Gerardo: forget the free tickets! I´m not interested in flying with them!

I´m in contact with my lawyer. We have all proofs collected, and I swear that they won´t do it again with my pics!

By the way Konstantin: it is a company and who cares if they are 18, 23 or 55 years old! They are responsable for it!

Good night!
Ivica
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Is This Legal?

Fri Dec 21, 2001 11:55 am

I once saw my shot of the African Star Boeing 747-300 in a premier aviation magazine . . . for which permission was neither asked for nor granted.

I wrote a letter to the Editor of the magazine, and eventually, it seems that the image was taken off my website by the PR department of African Star, and used alongside its press release.

I then wrote to the airline and got a written apology . . . sadly, African Star remains one of Africa's grand dream.

KC Sim
Bangkok

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