ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:07 pm

I have been a steady contributor to this website for almost 2 years.

Met a lot of great people in that time and I always enjoy a good discussion on this forum, even though sometimes I may got out of hand a little, but afterall we were all friendly to one and another.

The last couple of months kept me thinking and the last post by LGW " time for a change" perfectly summed it up.

It's Johann's site and he does a damn good job, but I am certain that the time has come to think about some kind of change / improvement.

Lot's of people have complained about the massive queue and even with the implementation of the screeners it still seems to be kind of sluggish.

Johan certainly has to think about a long term solution, but what about a short term solution.

LIMIT YOURSELF TO 10 PICS PER UPLOAD

have them processed and then upload more, this ensure that

1.) the queue is not exploding
2.) you are not getting pissed off when Johan rejects 50 out of 50 pics
3.) save yourself some time and headache
4.) is fair to everyone
5.) not that big of a waiting time
6.) would maybe stop all the bitching and questions about the long upload time

Could think of some more, but these are the main reasons.

Anyone care to comment?

Vasco Garcia
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:13 pm

I'm a strong defender of your idea Vasco, I just would say a number of 20 photos for the limit.

I can't stand the competition between some photographers who want to be the number one with most photos here and in the middle of the rush to upload more and more photos, many duplicate photos are added. These guys only care about quantity  Yeah sure

Luis
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:19 pm

Well, I always have limited myself to usually between 5 -8 uploads at a time - very seldom have I exceeded that - this is the way I work - I only process a few images at a time (low boredom threshold  Smile ). However, while I used to wait for those to be uploaded before adding more, I'm not prepared to wait weeks before uploading more. This does not suit my working practices - I'm contributing enough of my time and effort to this site as it is (too much according to my wife!) - so I prefer to upload in a fashion which is most effecient for me.

I've been selective, and streamed my input in small chunks - which I think is reasonable. What happens to those uploads after that is not my concern.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
User avatar
hias
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:17 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:20 pm

Hi Vasco and Luis,

I think exactly the same. There are some guys with hundreds of pictures in the queue with boring shots. The 735th Lufthansa 737 or United A320 or Qantas B737 is boring.

Regards

Mathias
www.spotter.de.vu
mathias.henig@gmx.de
 
N509JB
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:20 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:36 pm

I ditto Colin.

I only upload about 10-15 at a time, about once a month. But when it can take sometimes 3 months to have yer photos looked at, not to mention that I had 30 photos lost last time...hmmmm, do you see where the problem is?

I screen my shots. Im all about quality, not quantity. But the bottom line is, like Colin, I'll do what works best for me.

Thanks,
B
 
tappan
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:49 pm

Edit,edit,edit ...
If one has a photo of the same plane during the same "shoot", then take the best one. The other shots can stay with you,,
VASCO,
What lens is that new one...Nikon, Tamron, tokina
500mm,400mm??
Thanks
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:54 pm

Good idea, I don't think 10 would be too much since the good stuff is added by the screeners within days anyway.
The queue is dropping bigtime now, and I hope some kind of upload limit would keep it that way

Regards,

Staffan
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:02 pm

10 is a good number, nice idea Vasco.

I haven't even uploaded 10 at a time for 2 years now. I last uploaded 4, which were unfortunately rejected.
Bonjour Chef!
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2994
Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 4:26 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:41 pm

Some people just happen to shoot more stuff, go on more trips or have larger collections, and they might want to upload more.
I'd say let them go ahead if they have interesting stuff to show. If it's good quality, it shouldn't clog up the queue as it will be added without delay.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
aps
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 2:58 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:45 pm

It is a good idea but what you maybe forgetting is the number of members uploading pictures .. Smile

Lets say for instance in one day you may get 300 people upload 10 shots each .. that alone in one day is 3000 pictures to be screened even b4 the next lot of people start uploading ... Wow!

Im not 100 % sure how many people are members of AN and upload on a regular basis but i think a long term fix needs to be started however its done , this thread is a very good start !! lets get our heads together and sort summat out b4 Johan and the screeners get grey hair  Big thumbs up ( Assuming Johan isnt grey already )
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:04 am

This is taken from the photostats page at airliners.net dated Jan 15th 2001 4.00pm CET

There are a total of 1212 photos waiting to be processed on the upload page. Of those, 7 are yours.
763 photos and 182 photographers are currently before you in the queue ...........

Vasco G.

 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1058
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:05 am

Well I like the idea in principal, but I'm not convinced it will solve the problem.

The queue isn't sluggish at all for high quality pics anyway - screeners screen and uploads happen and the screeners have stated recently that the screening queue is almost down to zero. The bottleneck is with the marginal shots, not the good stuff.

So what will happen is that those who can achieve "High Quality" (whatever the screeners decree that to be on a given day  Wink/being sarcastic) will get 10 pictures processed every one or two days, and will upload accordingly. Those whos pics are marginal will still end up having to wait quite a long time to get their 10 pics reviewed by him who must be obeyed, which isn't really going to appease them or do a huge amount for the size of the queue.

Andy
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:08 am

Konstantin wrote:
"Some people just happen to shoot more stuff, go on more trips or have larger collections, and they might want to upload more.
I'd say let them go ahead if they have interesting stuff to show. If it's good quality, it shouldn't clog up the queue as it will be added without delay."
-----------------------------------------------

Well K, there is nothing wrong with people that go on trips more often and shot more stuff than others, even they can limit themselves to 10 pics per upload, once processed they can upload 10 again and so forth.......





 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2994
Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 4:26 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:35 am

Well, as Andy says, if you get 10 HQ pics accepted every day, then even the "productive" members get to upload a lot. This might convince me.
Just a pity for those who have to wait 4 weeks... which doesn't convince me then.

Konstantin
(still undecided if this is a good idea)
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:44 am

As Andy has already pointed out this would work well for people who submit "HQ" shots, but for those that dont which must be all of us some of the time then these shots are still going to have to wait for J

Fine if you only have 1 or 2 shots waiting but if all your shots get in to the J queue then were right back where we started. Those that have reached their limit will have to wait a "few" weeks until they are cleared down by J

I dont think the Screeners are too far away from achieving their quality threshold that Johan set for them. Soon as this is hit then were have a much quicker turnaround from upload to rejection, sorry acceptance Big grin

I like the idea that S4 suggested in the other thread of those photogs that are brave enough  Big grin to become "HQ" photogs and get a simple yes or no from the screeners and not have their marginal shots passed on to J

Regards

Paul
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:44 am

if you get 10 HQ pics accepted every day - that's exactly how it used to work, and the non-HQ (aka Travel List) people complained.

There is a very real case that its those whose pics are on the margins that need feedback fastest.

As I understand it, the HQ is itself a type of bottleneck since it needs 2 screeners to agree. Marginals are a Johan bottleneck. Probably the fastest through are the obvious rubbish which can be rejected immediately.

Given that the marginals are I guess the biggest problem, and waiting on Johan, limiting uploads to 10 at a time (I'm OK with that) AND waiting for accept/reject is going to be very off-putting to new members.

Judging from past practice, it appears that quantity is not a real problem for Johan - when he gives the queue his attention, huge numbers are quickly processed.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Mudozvon
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:02 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:23 am

I used to contribute to one of the photography sites around (the same structure as here though not aviation-related) so they had a rule: you can upload one picture in three days. Agree, this is a bit tough for airliners.net as our hobby is more or less about serial shooting but it may vary (in our case) to some more files per upload.
It's all about the decision only the owners can make.

Leonid
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1058
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:36 am

Oh goody... The only picture of mine that's been sat in the queue for a while (presumably awaiting the attention of J) has just been accepted. Does that mean I can upload 10 more now?  Big grin Big grin

Andy

PS: The picture I have had accepted today has been in the queue for two weeks. The other 15 pics I uploaded at the same time as this one appeared on the database within a day, so I can only assume that the screeners must have accidentally missed hitting the HQ check box on this one pic  Acting devilish But my point is this - how is it that some folks are claiming they've had pics in the queue for months when a pic of mine that I assume has gone the none-HQ route has made it after two weeks?
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:50 am

Andy
have you got the confitmation mail from screeners@.. or from admin@.... Screeners would be HQ and admin J.
Peter
-
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:07 am

I upload 8-10 images per week in one session. This is what presently works best for me. I guess it's a coincidence that this figure is being suggested, but I agree that 10 shots/upload is a good number.

 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:18 am

I'm against upload limits. What I find would help is people should screen their uploads before uploading them to airliners.net. If you think it might be rejected, then don't upload it. Don't just upload something that might be questionable in quality (photo/scan) and say.."hey, it's not the best but lets just see if it gets accepted" Some people upload only once a month, why restrict them to 10 or 20?

Michael
 
planedoctor
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:21 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:22 am

For me it depends on what you upload for. When I started it was all about getting a pic on the site. I think that thanks to digital my technique has gotten better, and I have been getting better equipment. I have only 17 pics in the database so far, but since then I have hundreds of plane pictures that I think are better than any of those 17, but I haven't uploaded any of them yet. Why not? Because I don't care if I have 10 photos or 1000 on the site. My original prospect was to be good enough for A.net. Now I think I know what it takes to get accepted, but I shoot mainly for me. And as I improve my skills, I only want pics that I am really proud of on the site. For those that I have already uploaded, those are fine for the experience and equipment I had then, but now I am not satisfied with that.

I think if we want to keep the queue to a minimum and quality to the maximum, we should restrain our uploads ourselves, like others have said.

This doesn't mean that you have to shoot like the top photogs. here to upload anything. It just means that I think we should reserve our personal best for the site- Not necessarily our personal best of every plane we have shot. That I think is a short term solution. A long term solution will have to be found at some point.
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:26 am

Further literature about this can be found at:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/16144/6/

Peter
-
 
Guest

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:34 am

That is fine with me since I have never uploaded more than 11 at a time. I say set the limit at 15.

Stephen
 
Guest

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:13 am

Look carefully at this thread.
It's the same old faces that are chattering.
How is this (good) suggestion going to be circulated to everybody that uploads into airliners.net?
How are you going to get this message over to all the others?
Add the suggestion to the addphotos upload page?

Gerry/EDI
 
9A-CRO
Crew
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 3:53 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:45 am

the only soulution is to eliminate "borderline" cases and let screeners do all he job
the JOHAN queue is rarely processed, but then very quickly as said above, and I have to admit that I got the impression that if in a large batch of one photographers photos first few are rejected the rest come the same way - why do I think that - personal experience - I had 23 photos rejected by Johan and I decided to resubmit the best scan just to see what happens - guess what - this time exactly the same scan was accepted as HQ photo

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Tomislav Muic


When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:27 am

I said: But my point is this - how is it that some folks are claiming they've had pics in the queue for months when a pic of mine that I assume has gone the none-HQ route has made it after two weeks?

Peter replied: have you got the confitmation mail from screeners@.. or from admin@.... Screeners would be HQ and admin J.

Further to Peter's comments on this, the message came from Admin, and indeed watching the stats every day it has been getting progressively closer to the front of the queue since it was uploaded to the extent that it was number 215 this morning. So I am forced to conclude that far from taking months to process non-HQ pictures, its currently taking about two weeks.

Two weeks is a good deal better for a picture to get through the system than its been for a long long time.

Well done Johan and the Screeners.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
da Fwog
Posts: 845
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 5:25 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:03 am

I'm against upload limits I'm afraid. I process my photos as and when I have the time to do so, and as I work shifts, I may well have the time to upload 10 or 15 today, and then none for a week or more. In any case, I don't believe it's the sheer quantity of pics that's the problem, as the screeners generally get through the HQ material within 48 hours or so. It is the QUALITY of the material. If it was all high quality, it would ALL get added by the screeners and we'd have a queue of 0 pics waiting for Johan.

OK, there are plenty of new or inexperienced photographers (or experienced photographers who are just getting to grips with digital versions of their images) who struggle to produce pictures that meet the quality threshold. But for those of us who are regular contributors, we should all have a feeling by now of roughly where the quality threshold is (OK OK, more or less, anyway), and choose to upload the material we feel meets the acceptable standards. This doesn't mean we should be getting 100% acceptance, but we shouldn't be clogging the queue up with our poorer pictures, especially if we think they might get binned in the end anyway.

Look at what Vasco posted above: "763 photos and 182 photographers..." ahead of him in the queue. That averages out to only 4 photos each, and we all know that some photogs will have a lot more than 4. So a significant amount of the pictures in the queue will be in ones and twos per photographer. So how is limiting the regulars to 10, 15 or 20 photos going to help? Most regular photographers ought to be getting most of their photos added via the HQ option by now. So they can best help the queue situation by uploading quality material, rather than A.N. placing a cap on what EVERYONE uploads.

In another thread, the idea of "HQ" photographers having all their pictures either added by the screeners or else immediately rejected without going to Johan has been discussed. How about this: When you have more than xxx photos in the database (what do you think: 200? 400?), you automatically become a "HQ" photographer - and anything not marked as HQ by the screeners automatically gets bounced back to you. This way, the less experienced photographers get their borderline cases reviewed by Johan - everyone else gets either an instant acceptance or rejection without clogging up the queue.

Anyway, apart from all that, consider this point. A (new?) photographer uploads 10 images - all get sent to Johan. He now gets frustrated because they're not going anywhere. He also can't upload any more pictures - because his existing ones are still sitting there. He's now doubly frustrated. We get more "what the hell's going on with my photos?" threads posted in here. Eventually the frustrated photographer whose pictures are not getting added and who can't upload any more while they're waiting goes elsewhere because it's not worth uploading to A.N.
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2187
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:43 am

I know how too because I only do about 10 when I have time to do it but I think 15 is enough
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:54 am

It's clear that we can't arrange a "Gentleman Agreement". It's not possible to satisfy everybody so I give up. Whatever Johan decides is ok for me.

Luis
(that still don't likes the "quantity rules" and "dupes? I don't care" situations.
 
planeboy
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:28 pm

Hello to all...

I have to agree with Vasco's suggestion fore it makes alot of sense. Vasco submits on a regular and not greedy basis as others here. You want names ? Here are a few - Gary, Colin (A+W), Gerry, Andrew, Craig, Aric, Jason, Tom and a few others. All these fellows are great in what they do but they rarely get "carried away" if you know what I mean. I could point out names of those who do get "carried away" and lost in their own little plane picture journeys - but I will not. You see them every few days - the folks who need to have more than a page or 2 or 3 added at a time....

What do I know? Not a whole lot. But I agree the line should be drawn somewhere. Draw your own line and do what you wanna do - as long as you can live with it.

However, one must be careful of taking up too much space because there are MANY OTHERS in this world...
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:47 pm

I like Chris's suggestion - as far as I'm concerned, if the screeners are unsure if my shot is fit for A.net, I'd rather get it rejected straight away than have it sitting around waiting for Johan. If I feel strongly about the shot, I'll try and improve it and resubmit - otherwise, I've got plenty of other material  Smile

Most of my rejections are due to "partial" or "aesthetic" reasons - which I generally disagree with, but, life's too short to argue about it - chuck 'em and get on with it. They're A.net's loss  Smile

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
aps
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 2:58 am

RE: Fair Play, Limit Your Uploads!

Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:15 pm

This thread has spread out to different subjects ( as i thought it would ) in my last post i said lets get our heads together for a solution, some have some have gone AWOL..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (ITS NOT AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK)

I fear that a lot of people dont want a limit ... i feel its unfair , some people think that they must upload as many as they can to have the MOST pictures on this site... Am i wrong is so i truly appologise but thats the way i see it , Lets all please consider Johan and all the screeners they do not do this full time , they have other lives.  Big grin

Lets get a solution thats fair to all parties .

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest