Thom@s
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A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:43 am

Hi, I recieved this on Thursday 17th:
_________________________________
"From: Andrew McQuillan

I am writing to ask you for permission to use your GIll Airways photo's that are
on airliners.net.

Andrew

** PLEASE NOTE THAT IF NO RESPONSE IS RECIEVED I WILL ASSUM THAT YOU GIVE
PERMISSION AND WILL USE THE PICTURE(S)**"
_________________________________

To this I replied:

_________________________________
"Sir

First of all I would like to know what purpose you have of using these photos. After I get a reason, I will decide whether or not I wish to give you permission.
And by the way, If I don't reply then it means you have permission, that's not how it works.

Rgds
Thomas"
_________________________________

Any thoughts on the matter?

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
cfalk
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:49 am

You were perfectly right to ask for his intentions, but I would have been a little more clear with your last sentence. I would have said, "If I don't reply then it means you do NOT have permission, that's how it works."

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:57 am

Hehe, yeah I suppose I made it a little more dramatic than I was supposed to.  Smile

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
AviationIvi
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:05 am

Thomas,
I would say NO!
Regards,
Ivica
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:06 am

I just got this mail from the person who requested my pics:

"I am setting up a virtual airline of gill and would like these for the
gallery. I dont usually get replies from the airliners.net message thing so
that is why i put it to encourage people to reply. Any gill items would be
greatly appriciated.

Regards,

Andrew McQuillan"

Well, I suppose it would be allright, any oppinions? (I shouldn't charge him or anything, should I?)

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
chris28_17
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:12 am

tell him to go F*** himself for being such an idiot

i'm serious, he's probably 12 years old...

c
 
Aer Lingus
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:17 am

Yeah I got that aswell and I was very pissed off.......

I told him to feck off. (Not literally of course) !

Martin
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:27 am

If I told him that, he would think I was 12 years old.

But you guys really think I should say no? (We all know he will use my pics anyway.)  Sad

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Guest

RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:30 am

Once defiance is revealed, decline all permission:


Gerry/EDI
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:34 am

Could you rephrase that so that I DON'T have to dig up my dictionary?  Smile

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
mirage
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:38 am

Why should you say no?

Let him use the photo and ask for credit as the photographer.

Luis
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:44 am

Sounds good Luis, but how do I know he will do this? I was screwed by some guy who was doing simillar to this before, and I don't want to see that happen again.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Jaspike
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:48 am

He's a cheeky little bugger!

If you let him use them, make sure he puts your name near the photos Big thumbs up

Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:50 am

Quite a good idea, but how can I trust he gives credit where credit is due?

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
mirage
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:51 am

You can't know that but usually people gives credit to the photographers.

If he doesn't do that, you can always tell him that you'll spread out on the internet that he's violating your copyright. This will scare him.

Luis
 
Jaspike
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:53 am

Check the site where he puts the pics. If he doesn't do it, flood him with emails, and maybe send him a virus - that'll teach him Big thumbs up

Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:57 am

Luis and Josh, both sounds like fun. I think I'll do that. (Got to be tomorrow though, I'm going offline.)

Thanks for helping, other views are much appreciated.  Big thumbs up

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
AviationIvi
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:00 am

Luis:

** PLEASE NOTE THAT IF NO RESPONSE IS RECIEVED I WILL ASSUM THAT YOU GIVE
PERMISSION AND WILL USE THE PICTURE(S)**"

this is the reason! If I would get this email, I would really tell him to f... off

Ivi
 
jderden777
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (A

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:02 am

just let him use the photos...if someone asks me for permission to use the photos i tell them give me credit and a link so i can make sure that i get credit for it...it's that simple...he does sound pretty immature, but so? just let him use the photos - so you'll get your name out on the internet

jonathan d.
"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
mirage
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:04 am

Ivi, I agree with you on that. Thomas should make it clear that it's not the way it works.

Luis
 
zhukov
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:58 am

I believe the real question that you should settle is:
- do I want / I agree that he uses my photo?

If not: just tell him "no", you will see then if he obey you

if yes: state your conditions, but if it is a kid, as several persons have suggested, he will not want to pay.

I see no reason for getting angry against the letter he sent to you, he asked you the question, it is still better then nothing. And on one side, that means that your photo pleases him and that he did not want to wait three years before using it, it is not very nasty.

Why should you insult him, there is no reason. It's not because he may be a child you can say that he's an idiot that has to f.... himself (as says Mr. Chris  Acting devilish)

(Sorry if there are some english mistakes, it isn't my native language  Innocent )
 
CityBird MD-11
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:29 pm

i'd tell him to go piss up a rope - is that the way he speaks to other people in person?? i don't suppose that you need your photo used that badly.

Norm
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 21, 2002 5:57 am

Hi again. After reading what you have posted I have now sendt him this message:

_________________________________

Very well, you may have permission to use the following photos (see below) on two conditions.

1) That you put my name (Thomas Andre Hjelmen) somewhere so that people are informed that I took them.

2) That you provide me a link to the site where you will put my pictures, so that I can see how what your site looks like.  Smile

The images you may use:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=186977
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=117728
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=116852
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=116851

Good luck.

Rgds
Thomas
________________________________

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
zhukov
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:10 am

I think you have made the good choice  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I would have done the same if i were you...


Regards
f.breit
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:52 pm

Well, it looks the the matter is settled, and if something "illegal" happens I will tell you offcourse.  Smile

Thanks alot for your help and advice everyone.  Big thumbs up

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
flyvs007
Posts: 179
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Copyright Law Is A Funny Old Thing

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:27 pm

He was actually correct in stating that if he recieved no response he could go ahead and use the pictures. Copyright is only valid if the holder follows it up.

So if he asked you to use it, then he has followed his side of the copyright process. Had you not responded then basically that would be a sign that you rescind your copyright over that picture.

So well done in responding, and in the manner in which you did so!
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:31 pm

>He was actually correct in stating that if he recieved no response he could go ahead and use the pictures. Copyright is only valid if the holder follows it up.

So if he asked you to use it, then he has followed his side of the copyright process. Had you not responded then basically that would be a sign that you rescind your copyright over that picture. <

THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm getting really tired of this crap!!!!!!!!!!
/JM

AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:50 pm

FlyVS007, thank you for your support.  Big thumbs up

Jan, I know that copyright is a problem for photographers, fortunatly I have yet to run into such problems.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
ckw
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:57 pm

He was actually correct in stating that if he recieved no response he could go ahead and use the pictures. Copyright is only valid if the holder follows it up.

Wrong. At least in US and UK. Copyright is, well a right. Anyone who creates an "intellectual work" is automatically entitled to benefit from that work AND control how that work may be used for a specified number of years (varying according to country and media). You need take no action now, or at any stage in the future to retain this right. However, if you ever wish to assert your rights over another person you will have to provide evidence that you are indeed the creator (eg. original negatives). If you are looking for financial compensation you may also have to demonstrate damages entailed by an infringement of your copyright - situation seems to vary on a case by case basis.

There are some very special exceptions to the above, for example, in the preparation of teaching materials, if it can be demonstrated that every reasonable effort has been made to contact the copyright holder, material may be used, without penalty. However, even here, if the copyright holder later asserts his/her rights, they may expect "reasonable" recompense for use of that material.

What may be confusing some is the law on trademarks which DO require the owner to actively protect the use of the trademark.

Incidentally, the copyright symbol has no legal status whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether you use one or not - its really just a shorthand for saying "this is mine and I know my rights, and will enforce them if necessary".

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:06 pm

Unless you have got a YES, you can NOT use the picture.

Easy as that.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:15 pm

Well said Colin.

Jan, It still isn't going to keep people from copying images from a.net, remove the photographers name and claim they took it them selves. It is far too easy these days, and difficult to prevent.

In this case however I gave him a yes, but if he had used the pictures without getting a green light from me, I would have taken a different kind of action.

btw, (Colin) it's kind of hard to proove you took the pictures yourself if you used a digital camera.  Sad

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Dazed767
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:38 pm

I probably wouldn't let him use it after acting like that. I'm just an ass that way...the way I see it "go out and shoot it yourself!!!".
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:38 pm

Thom@s,
of course some idiots will continue to steal pictures the way you describe, but what must be stressed is that
people can NOT just ask, and if no reply just take the pic and use it. That is just like going in a camera store, grabbing a nice gear and just because the sales guy is buzy, walk right out without paying!

The comment from FlyVS007 is totally ignorant, and I'm astonished that this thinking goes on around here!
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:47 pm

Dazed767, I see your point, but if everyone did that, then what would photographers make a living of?  Smile

Jan, I couldn't agree more that if someone wants to use a picture, they need the photographers aproval. I liked FlyVS007's comment on how I handled the situation, but as for the rest he said i have to say i strongly disagree.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Tommy Mogren
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:58 pm

FlyVS007:

That is SO totally wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The photographer holds the copyright of his/her photos, and they may NOT be reproduced, published altered in any way without the photographers approval.
NOTHING ELSE!

Tommy Mogren
Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Wed Jan 23, 2002 6:04 pm

Hmmmm, it's been a few days now, and he hasn't replied. He better put up my name next to the pics and give me the URL to this "viritual airline" site of his. Otherwhise it seems he screwed me.  Sad

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
flyvs007
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:52 am

It wasn't ignorant. It was a brief summary of a copyright letter I recieved dealing with an almost identical matter. The point I was making was that at least the guy asked, he was following up his side of the copyright deal. It left the holder to say yes or no. If he said nothing at all, well who's fault would it be if the original guy just went ahead and used it?

So your analogy of stealing equipment from a store is a bit out of line.
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 7:48 am

NO.
As long as I haven't said yes, you haven't got permission.
Is that so difficult??????

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fuairliner
Posts: 530
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 4:36 pm

FlyVS007,

you have to be given permission by the copyright owner before you are allowed to use the photo. If you use any photo without permission this is a copyright infringement no matter whether you have asked him before or not.


Kind regards,

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy FUAirliner
(Frank Unterspann)
Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
 
Tommy Mogren
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 4:49 pm

FlyVS007:

Like I said earlier.....

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU ASK....
You DO NOT have the permission to use or publish a photo UNLESS the copyright holder (usually the photographer himself) has clearly given you the permission.

It's as simple as that.

You can ask and ask....as long as you don't get a YES, you DON'T have permission. PERIOD.

Tommy Mogren
Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:33 pm

Well put Tommy.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
ckw
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:39 pm

Yes the onus is on the potential user to gain permission. From time to time I've had to create educational material using photos, film clips etc.etc. One of the biggest problems is chasing down and obtaining copyright permission - this CAN be the most time consuming part of any such project. But unless I can PROVE that I have taken every reasonable measure to obtain that permission, there is no way I can use the material.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
APP
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:01 am

Thom@s,
I've just had the same e-mail regarding two of my Gill photos. Here's the reply I sent. Let me know if you hear anything back from Andrew McQuillan.

Hi Andrew,
I am aware that you have already approached fellow photographers from
Airliners.net with similar requests, also that at least one of these
photographers has in turn given permission on condition you credit him and
also provide a link to your site so that he can view it.
To my knowledge, this has not happened as yet, perhaps your site isn't
running yet and that would explain this. However, until I am satisfied that
previous conditions have been met, I cannot at this time give you permission
to use my photos. I will be happy to reconsider once I'm satisfied that
other photographers are happy that you have met their requests.
I trust you will understand my reasons for my stance on this matter, but
many better photographers than me on Airliners.net have had their copyrights
infringed before now, and I just want to try and help to limit these
occasions in the future.
Regards,
Andrew.

 
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Fly-K
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:22 pm

Why's the guy still trying to pull that off?!
I got the same request today!

Here's my reply:

Andrew, I would have normally granted you permission, but your sentence
"IF YOU DO NOT REPLY IT WILL BE ASSUMED THAT YOU GRANT PERMISSION"
is somewhat controversial, read here:
http://airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/38252/
Many photographers have written you about this, and you still continue with this practice.
Therefore I prefer NOT to grant you permission.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Thom@s
Topic Author
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:52 pm

Well, I got a nerw message from him today where he provided the link to the site (which isn't even up yet) and was going to give credit to the photographer/me. So it looks like thing as turning out ok.

I still can't believe he still tries to pull off the "if I don't get any reply I have permission" stunt. I understand why you rejected his request Konstantin.

Did you get any answer yet Andrew?

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:26 pm

If you do not get a Y-E-S, then its means N-O!

Can't get any easier.

-Dmitry
 
Joge
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:55 pm

Oh, yeah, here it is:

I am really sorry for having to say that but otherwise, people in the past,
haven't replied to me email. I can only apologise for saying this but I
really didn't want to do it.

I will understand if you do not let me use the pictures.


My opinion is, that if people are not willing to reply, maybe they also don't want the photos to be used! Also, just don't do it then!

-Joge  Big grin
Bula!
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:36 pm

Well, now it seems things are clearing up. I got a link to the site, and have establsihed more contact with the guy who wanted to use my pics. (btw, no he is not some 12 year old punk)  Smile

Thanks again for all the replies.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
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Fly-K
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:36 pm

He has now sent a letter of apology to the photogs he contacted... I guess he has learned his lesson now.
Another proof of the strength of our a.net photogs acting together.
Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Thom@s
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RE: A Guy "demands" To Use My Photos. (Advice Please.)

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:18 am

I got the apology aswell, + a screensaver with aviation related pics. Big grin

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"

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