joe pries
Posts: 1922
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Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:07 am

wanted to hear your thoughts on what procedures you undertake in your scanning process with this scanner. thanks

Joe
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:25 am

Hi Joe.

Wonderful scanner. I've had two other film/slide scanners before this one, and third time's a charm in this case. I wasn't totally happy with my previous ones.

I also have the 50-slide feeder, which is a little pricey, but a great tool, especially if you have a better half who would rather you spend your time in other ways than feeding a slide into the machine every few minutes.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Just put in a pile of slides and go to bed, and all are scanned and saved in the morning.

I know you use Kodachrome, while I use Provia. If you give me a few minutes, I'll dig up a K64 slide and scan it and post it here for you.

Check back here in a little while.

Charles

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Aer Lingus
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:29 am

Oh have you bought it yet Joe ?
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:59 am

Hope you buy it Joe! It is a very nice scanner. Charles is the guy to ask questions. I bought it a week ago, and love it. I will be finally uploading shots to a.net in a week or so. It scans in very high quality, up to 4000 dpi, but I don't think you would use that much.

-Dmitry  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:19 am

Ok, I scanned a K64 shot. Unfortunately I shot it in not-so-good weather. This is the raw scan, resized a bit smaller (the full-size, 4000 dpi file is 65MB  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) to about 1 MB. No color correction, ICE, sharpening or any other correction has been done, as I figure you want to see the raw results.

http://homepage.iprolink.ch/~saracchi/Eurocross.jpg

Just for fun, here is a small portion of the full-size, 4000 dpi scan, also about 1 MB. As you can see, the grain shows up clearly. I rarely use more than 2000 or 2500 dpi, myself.

http://homepage.iprolink.ch/~saracchi/Eurocrosscloseup.jpg

If you want to see the results with Provia, just see any of my last 500 or so uploads.

Hope this helps,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:27 am

hey guys,
D, didnt know you were using it- cool. Charles, the only time i'd use 4000dpi is to make prints- for internet i'll still do it at the lower dpi range. your stuff on airliners.net is great (even though its fuji  Smile. what id like to know from you guys is what steps you take in the scanning process from start to finish and yes Aer Lingus, it was shipped today and is sitting in my livingroom with my wife and the baby keeping close watch- tonight mclaughlin is coming over to help me install it. how long did it take you guys to install it btw?
Joe
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:30 am

Have fun with it Joe, I know what it is like to get a new toy!!!

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:44 am

Installing it is pretty simple. Make sure you have the latest drivers off of the net, and the latest version of Nikonscan 3.1. Once you install the firewire card, it installs quickly.

My method is pretty complex. It might not be as efficient as it could be, but it works. I resize the picture with Thumbsplus 4.5 to 1 to 1.5 ratio (for when I make prints), then make color and gamma correction and reduce to 1024x683 in Corel Photopaint 10, then make final corrections like saturation and contrast in Thumbsplus.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:48 am

Yes Andy, im pretty excited indeed!
Charles- to tell you the truth i was hoping that this scanner would be able to do alot of the post work we do in photoshop/paint in the scanning process. i guess i'll have to play with it until i get it close to doing that.

Meanwhile ive got about 750 scans sitting on my harddrive waiting to be uploaded but with the problems on the site recently that 750 is gonna be 850 real soon- im looking forward to the day that the new server is in and we can once again get stuff uploaded fairly quickly.

Joe
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:53 am

Joe,

the Nikonscan software has a ton of features that I've never bothered to learn how to use - I probably use maybe 3% of it.

Anyway, enjoy your new toy!

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Aer Lingus
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Joe

Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:18 am

Joe the new server has been installed and is up and running. Have a look at the non-aviation forum, Johan wrote a message to tell us its up.

Cheersand have fun,
Martin
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:32 am

oh awesome Martin, cool. now lets see how long my sole picture in the que takes to upload- its actually a really neat shot with a bwia md80 taxiing, an aa 757 taking off above it, and in the distance a twa 767- and the twa is pretty much in the same area where AA587 crashed- hopefully itll be uploaded soon

Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:00 am

I've had one for about a year - fine scanner, but I'm not impressed with the NikonScan software. I find I get better - and much faster - results with Vuescan.

Procedure - set up is straight forward, but watch you select an appropriate colour space. Spending some time on the gamma calibration (within Nikonscan) is worthwhile - I find this is quite hard to judge - ambient lighting should be your normal working environment.

My basic workflow is to scan full frame 4000dpi at 16bit - I figure I might as well get the maximum possible out of the image, and I think sampling down from this in PS or whatever helps minimise grain/noise effects. What I aim for is the ideal digital copy, which I then file away on CD.

Nikon offers the option of multi-pass scanning which is supposed to reduce noise, esp. in dark scans, but frankly I've never found this a problem and see little difference in single pass or multipass scans. The various image adjustment tools in Nikonscan are pretty clever, esp. the selective colour adjustment - the sharpening tool is pretty cool too as it allows unsharpmasking on individual color channels, but all this is rather let down by the fact that you can't get a 100% preview to work with! Hence my preference to use Vuescan followed by Photoshop.

I do use Nikonscan occasionally on poor quality slide/negs as the digital ROC/GEM are quite effective.

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:29 am

Colin,
thanks, some good info. i guess ill be getting the vuescan and do it that way- the only thing i can do is 4000dpi each time- ive got hundreds and hundreds of scans lined up and will need to reduce the dpi in order to get em done in this lifetime  Smile

Joe
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:36 pm

I bought Vuescan as well, but never really fell in love with it. I prefer to use the Nikonscan software. Both work, and it's all up to your preferences.

Joe, if you are planning on doing a lot of scanning of archives, seriously consider the slide feeder. It is really worth it.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:53 pm

Hello guys! Gald you got the scanner Joe. It probably will be to you like me, when you get something new it takes a while to break in!

Charles, I have been scanning the last roll I shot at ANC a few days ago. The lighting is good, the image is sharp, but when I scan it comes out really grainy! Do I need to purchase some kind of photo editing program to fix that, or what settings do I set the scanner to? I know it should produce really high image quality because I have seen your great shots! Even if they are tele shots (300mm). I am just using the Nikon software that came with it, I don't have any of the other software you are talking about (which one should I get? I need something good and easy to use), also like I said I am having trouble with the "crop" section, kinda confusing, each time I try to set a resolution and/or size settings it automatically does it own thing and changes.

Help would be appreciated!

Thanks, Dmitry.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 7:44 pm

Have you checked the autofocus? I usually have autofocus and autoexposure turned on. I can't think of anything else that might cause blur.

I'll be out of town for the next few days (No PC's where I'm going either), so good luck. I'll check back mid-next week.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:23 am

well i did one scan already- piece of cake- all i had to do was go to photshop and do some dust cleaning, unsharp mask a bit and some color correction (basically the same thing as before) only this time i did a very very dark slide and man o man what a difference- the black is real solid black whereas before on the s20 it was greenish with tons of noise and vertical lines.

Joe
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:51 am

Hope you enjoy it Joe, it really easy to scan with, but I am looking into buying a photo editing program, anything you would suggest? A guy told me Corel Photo Paint (I think thats what it is called) is good?

-Dmitry
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:10 am

I guess I've tried them all - I was a mainstream Corel user for many years - but if you want the best, Adobe Photoshop is still in front and now my editor of choice. After that (and not far behind) are Corel Photopaint,
Paint Shop Pro, and Gimp - each has its strengths and weaknesses, but all can produce professional quality results.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 2:49 am

Thanks Colin!

For all those that use the coolscan 4000 ED. What setting would I type intot the tool Pallete for uploads to a.net? I can make quality image scans, but the file size is like 20 MB! Way to much! A.net wants the images 1024 pixels in width max! How do I set ie to that? I know were the width goes in, but it changes everything and cufuses me.

I would appreciate if somebody would get me all set up for the scanning to a.net.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it!

-Dmitry  Smile
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:35 am

Dimitry - in the crop section of the tool palette, uncheck everything except the "keep this output size" (2nd) option - type in 1024, 768, and select pixels - that's it.

You can move the crop frame around the image as you like - expand reduce it - but the aspect ratio will be fixed to the values you entered.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:08 am

Ah, thanks Colin! I will give it a try to see what happens.

-Dmitry
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: CKW

Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:15 am

Hello Ckw! I just went and tried that, I changed to pixels and put in 1024, it automatically changes to "16024", is that suppossed to be that way?

Thanks, Dmitry.
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:25 am

ok i have a problem and hope you guys can help me out- do you guys keep your nikon4000ed on all the time? cause when i shut it off i get a message saying that its an error or something like that. ????

Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 10:51 pm

Dimitri - other crop options will take preference over your fixed pixel size - make sure you have everything else in the crop screen unchecked

Joe - this is a firewire issue - unlike USB, Firewire prefers things to be shut down gracefully! You should have a firewire icon in your system tray - click on this and you will see a "shutdown" option. Once you've done that you can turn off the Nikon without error messages.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:23 pm

Colin, you are the man, thanks buddy. ok since im an idiot with this stuff im gonna ask my tech support mr mclaughlin about this and he can advise me on the icon since i dont see it on my screen

Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:40 pm

Joe - it may not be you - it SHOULD be down in the right hand corner by the clock etc., however, as often as not it doesn't appear on my system either! - scanner still works though. That's Windows for you ...

Incidentally, turning the scanner off without shutting down firewire should do it no harm - but it might confuse the system if you later restart the scanner without rebooting the PC.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:55 pm

Colin,
thats whats happening- when i shut it off i get a message saying that something wasnt shut down right and system might crash etc plus when i did a defrag last night it found an error and couldnt defrag so maybe this has to do with it but i do not recall seeing that icon on the bottom right- so how do you get that icon to actually show up then

Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:12 am

Joe - unlikely that the shutdown would cause a disk error, more likely the disk error proceeded your installing the firewire driver which may have had consequences on the intstallation. I'm not sure of a way to make the icon appear in the systray - usually a reboot does it for me. But there is always the old Windows standby - reinstall!

BUT if defrag has failed due to a disk error, you need to get this sorted out ASAP before doing anything else - such problems can often take the form of a progressive creeping death and odd things start to happen. If you have a tame IT person handy, get him/her to have a good look at your machine before you start losing critical stuff.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
flpuck6
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:43 am

Wow guys, I want to save this for future reference. I'm in the market for a scanner and after reading the short life-span of the HP S20, I'm looking into other scanners. Joe, would you mind giving a price range for which you paid? You can e-mail me personally if you'd rather not post it for everyone to view. Thanks!
Bonjour Chef!
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:50 am

Joe, you are suppossed to click on the little green arrows in the right bottom icon section on your comp! Its just like shutting your computer down.

-Dmitry  Smile
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Flpuck6

Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:57 am

I just bought the same scanner about a week before Joe. It cost $1600 retail, but I got it on ebay brand new for $1360. Very nice scanner really recommend it!

-Dmitry
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:18 am

OK D,
ill look for the green arrows, thanks

Chris,
i got mine at ecost.com for 1499 plus 70 bucks for overnight shipping and their handling charge. B&H has it for 1695 but i would have to pay tax- with ecost no tax.

Joe
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:31 am

Joe,

I’m curious if you looked at the Coolscan IVED and, if so, why did you choose the 4000ED over it?

Thanks

Sunil

 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:09 am

Hi Sunil,
I did not look at the coolscanIVED- what i do when i get new equipment is ask around and see what the every day pros use- when it came to my camera, i saw that many use the eos 1vhs, so i got it- with the scanner, i heard most guys who photograph as their dayjob use the 4000ED so i got it.

Joe
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:12 am

Thats right Joe. If I could afford a Nikon coolscan 8000 ED I would of went with that, but I am in the beginning stage of Aviation Photography so I have a ton of more equipment to buy.

-Dmitry  Smile
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:02 pm

ok Colin and anyone else whos really good with the 4000ed- been doing some test scans (still learning the scanner) and now im finding that the scans are coming out dark- all im doing is scanning straight and doing no touching up in the nikon software- just bringing it into ps6.1- even when i try to fix the scans, they dont come out looking so great. any help would be appreciated.

Joe
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:09 pm

Thanks Joe. I like your philosophy! I’m just not sure I can plunk down that kind of dough.

In comparing the two I see three key differences:

- resolution: 2900dpi vs. 4000dpi
- dynamic range: 3.6 vs. 4.2
- 4000ED offers a stack loader

maybe I’ll break down and get the 4000ED  Smile/happy/getting dizzy At least they are in stock at some places!!

Sunil
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:10 pm

Sunil,
the diff between 2900 dpi and 4000 is huge and dynamic range is golden- the more the better. dont be like i used to be and try to save a few bucks now and pay up later- do it right the first time- famous saying:
"it costs money to learn" -and i have paid dearly in my life- buying cheaper equipment, gambling excessively in the stock market, i can go on and on for days

 Smile
Joe
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:15 pm

ok guys, im very pleased- i found the green arrow and now know how to properly shut down the 4000ED- im glad cause i thought maybe there was a serious internal problem or something. i still need some input (especially from colin who knows this scanner like a pro) about why my scans are coming out darker than we'd like them to. thanks in advance for any assistance.

Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:44 pm

Joe - I love the scanner, but must tell you that 90% of my use is with Vuescan, so my knowledge of the Nikonscan software is limited.

Dark scans? OK, lets assume you've got a reasonably well calibrated monitor. Which color space did you select for the scanner in the set up? Personally I prefer sRGB as I found it easier to get consistency across all software/devices. In some ways Adobe RGB is better, but more of a fiddle (I found) to get good print output.

BUT - and here's the key thing - if you are tempted down one of the "wider gamut" routes, you will get flatter and darker images.

Next - have you gone through the calibration routine in NikonScan - the bit where you have to match patches in lined boxes to get the gamma right. This I found very difficult to judge - it is important to use your normal working ambient lighting, and judge the patches a good 3 or 4 feet from the screen.

OK, assuming everything is set up right, are we talking scans darker than in preview, or dark in both preview & final? Ie. are you getting what you see on the screen, or is the final output significantly different.

Are you scanning K64? If so, have you selected the Kodachrome option for scanning (I missed the fact it was there for weeks!) makes a HUGE difference.

Which, if any, of the ICE/GEM/ROC are you using? While these can work wonders on poor quality originals, ROC in particularly can have odd effects on "normal" quality slides.

Finally, I don't think I've ever scanned anything in NikonScan which didn't require gamma adjustment - I use the Curves box a lot to bring out the midtones. I think what happens is that the scan is influenced by bright highlights (which we have perhaps more than the average in aviation photography) and sets the white point inappropriatly (ie. doesn't allow enough overhead). In the curves box you can choose your own white,black or mid-gray points. This alone might solve the problem, but if not, some manual adjustment of the curve should fix things.


BTW - your thinking on purchasing the 4000ED was much the same as mine. The IV is a fine scanner, but having compared the output of both, the 4000ED was so clearly superior I knew I would never be happy with the IV!

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:17 pm

Colin,
you are brilliant. I will check all the items you've advised on tonight to double check but i will say that on my monitor at home the final scans (jpg) look flat and terrible but in the office monitor they look perfect-so numero uno on my list is adjusting the monitor at home.

Again thanks for all your insight
Joe
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:11 pm

ok Colin, new problem-
i now shut the scanner off properly via the green arrow- problem is that when i shut the computer down i get a blue screen and a message that reads WINDOWS PROTECTION ERROR YOU NEED TO RESTART YOUR COMPUTER. only problem is that ctl/alt/delete doesnt do it- i actually have to shut it down by powering off from the electric box i have all the computer outlets going into- not the way to shut a computer off. you or anyone else ever see this and know a solution?
TIA
Joe
 
ckw
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:21 pm

Hmm yes, I've had that too - but since I don't usually shut down the scanner before the PC, hasn't worried me too much - I just put it down to crap Microsoft O/S

However, I recently rebuilt my PC from scratch and reinstalled everything - I haven't done as you described since then - I'll try it tonight and see what happens.

What O/S are you running - I'm using ME at the moment until I'm happy that XP support exists for all my various peripherals - but I think XP may be the ultimate solution since stuff like firewire support is really just another cludge on older O/S

Cheers

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:47 pm

Colin,
I too am running ME and will do as you now and just shut it off after the computer is shut down. yeah, im also gonna wait a while until xp is good to go- then i'll switch.
thanks again pal
Joe
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:33 am

Joe, Colin,

Thanks for the advice... it'll be the 4000ED!!!

PS, if you want a rock solid OS without the weakness of ME/98 and the hassles of XP registration (big brother), use Windows 2000. My system has been up (no reboots) for over a month. I shut it down about a month ago to put a new video card in.

Sunil
 
cfalk
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:47 am

Hi guys.

I use WinXP, and the scanner works beautifully with it. I can switch the scanner on and off, before ore after boot-up, repeating several times over, and XP doesn't falter.

One mistake I did however is connect the scanner to a power plug which was dependant on the computer for power. If the computer powers down, all the peripherals would do so as well. That's fine for printers, but don't do it to the scanner. What happens is that you can cut the power to the scanner without actually switching it off, and if it happens at the wrong time, you can damage the scanner. This happened to me, and I ended up with a $200 repair bill.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:38 am

Charles...same here. I'm running XP since Christmas and haven't had a problem since. All of my current equipment is supported by XP and works perfectly. XP is (I feel) more stable then 95/98/Me.

Joe, no need to wait until XP is "good to go"...it IS.

Sunil...the XP activiation is really no big deal. It takes about 10 seconds and as long as you don't add/remove like 5 major hardware items you don't need to reactivate. Even if you do, reactivation isn't that bad either.

As long as your have fairly new hardware (printers, scanners, etc.) XP support should be no problem at all...I'd highly suggest the upgrade.

Michael
 
joe pries
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RE: Anyone Here Scanning With A Nikon 4000ED?

Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:42 am

Hey Mike,
what do you mean 10 seconds? 10 secs to install xp?

please clarify

Joe

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