Guest

Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:28 pm

I am shooting slides, Film speeds 100... I am too lazy to take all my film out (Yea, bad huh) and the security says that its ok to put slower speed film thru the machine. I got a roll back (From a December trip) and no problems on the film. I recently took another trip, and some of the same unused rolls passed thru the machine a couple more times... I didnt have any problem in December, but, kinda worried I just messed up.. Should I worry?

Just would like to ease my mind a bit. Thanks.
 
ckw
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:11 pm

The problem with Xrays is that the effect is cumulative, just like normal light. No properly maintained machine should damage any normal film with one pass - but 3 passes and you're beginning to push your luck.

People will tell you that they've had film pass through numerous times, no problem. But firstly, the effects can be subtle - slight loss of contrast, less vibrant colours. Secondly, not all security systems are alike - while they are all supposed to be below a certain threshold, the intensity can vary considerably - also the operator has the option to increase strength if necessary to get a better look inside a bag.

In short, you may have got away with it,
but I wouldn't risk this film on anything really important

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Skymonster
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:57 pm

Colin,

All your assertions are undoubtedly correct as I believe that the case has now been proven, but the practical problems of persuading security (certainly in the UK and some other countries, and maybe moreso in the US too recently?) to hand check film mean that my film ends up going through the x-ray machine on the majority of occasions whether I like it or not. Being honest, in a lot of cases I've given up having the argument as (a) if I loose it often ends up that the ramp up the x-ray just to get me back and (b) I'm one of those people who'd claim no NOTICABLE effect from having film x-rayed somewhat more than once or twice. Of course, slower film helps here, as it is less affected by x-rays than faster film (hurrah for K64 Big grin).

Pragmatically, I believe that the best we can hope to do these days is reduce to a minimum the number of times a film passes through a machine, and if x-rayed film is brought back from a trip its probably best not to take it on the next trip but to use it at home. One thing I wouldn't particularly recommend is one of those x-ray bags - as soon as the security guys see the black blob of the shielded bag on their screen, they ramp up the power to see through it, negating the benefit of the bag and probably frying the film that's in the camera rather than in the bag.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ckw
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:54 pm

Andy - agree with what you say - I'm sure one pass through is safe anyway. The only real answer is use the film as quickly as possible to avoid multiple passes!  Smile

The other answer is to put film you don't need immediately to hand in your luggage.

Incidently, is anyone aware of any systems which might affect digicams? Also, am I right in presuming that digicams come under the general class of "electronic equipment" and hence should not be used during takeoff & landing?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Skymonster
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:17 pm

The other answer is to put film you don't need immediately to hand in your luggage.

NO, NO, NO! Under no circumstances should film be put in luggage that's checked in. At a lot of airports hold luggage is screened by x-rays, much stronger than those used on hand baggage. The likelihood of film being fogged is therefore much greater if you put film in your luggage than it would be in hand luggage.

I would imagine that almost all modern cameras could technically classed as "electronic devices", and whether a member of cabin crew could distinguish between your D30 and my EOS-3 anyway must be debateable.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:25 pm

Andy is right, never ever put film in your luggage!!
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
ckw
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:25 pm

Thanks for that info - I was always under the impression that luggage was not X-Rayed except in special cases (oops - no pun intended!)

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:35 pm

Colin

And for most of your "always" you would have been quite right. Hold luggage screening in the UK is a relatively recent innovation, post Lockerby if I remember correctly, and is I believe only being implemented fully in the US at the moment. However, as I said, the thing to remember is that the x-ray dose a hold bag gets is much higher than they use in the carry-on scanners.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Guest

RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 7:08 am

So should I throw my 6 rolls of slide film out or take my chances?

 
Guest

RE:Please Help...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 7:43 am

Should I throw my 6 rolls I have left away, or go ahead and take the chance that they are ok.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:11 am

Save them and use them for other purposes at home.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:25 am

What film speed? How many times were they x-rayed?

Assuming no more than 200ISO and three or four passes, use them on something not too important close to home.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Guest

RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:38 am

Speed is 100. Passed thru 3 times. All are in my camera case and inside their plastic cases still...

 
ckw
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:57 am

Well I guess I'd use them - but not for anything real important  Smile

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
CcrlR
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:45 am

There are bags you can buy that can prevent your film from getting messed up by the X-rays at the airport. I bought one just in case.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
Guest

RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 10:29 am

How much do those bags run? I am going to use a couple rolls and if they are messed up, then I will throw the other rolls out. What are the symptoms of film ruined by the machine? How can I tell? Also, does slide film have a better chance of being ruined by a machine than print film, or does it not make a difference?

Thanks again all for your help.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 10:41 am

It depends on the size and the film speed. They run from $5.99 on up to mabye $25.00. If you try Ritzcamera they will have some in different sizes and speeds to protect. When you go to the search feature type in film safe and there will be some of these. My best bet is the the one with the larger speed.

Http://www.ritzcamera.com
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:17 am

Are there problems with security at airports now? If things work out I am going to PHL, and LAX in Nov. Will the security cope with me if I take out 30 rolls of K64 and not allow it to go through the X-Ray machines?

-Dmitry
 
Guest

RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:58 am

I would say, 64 speed you wont have a problem.. I have one roll of 64, about four rolls of 100 and one 200. The higher the speed (from what I heard) will be a problem... I am not to worried about the 200 speed.. Ill probably wont use it.. Too grainy.

 
Skymonster
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:26 pm

CcrlR, Rolex01,

On the bags things, tests here in the UK have indicated that these bags simply don't help that much, and I say again from above:

One thing I wouldn't particularly recommend is one of those x-ray bags - as soon as the security guys see the black blob of the shielded bag on their screen, they ramp up the power to see through it, negating the benefit of the bag and probably frying the film that's in the camera rather than in the bag.

Basically, they aren't going to let you go through with a big "lump" in your bag that they can't identify, and the easiest way to resolve their problem is to ramp up the power of the x-ray, negating the benefit of the bag.

Andy


There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
L-188
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RE: Film And Security... Again I Know...

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:51 pm

Alaskaairlines: you are probably better off buying your film in the lower 48 anyway.
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