Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:22 pm

Hi all

Never been on my shopping list before but looking into getting a wide angle lens for my D30.

Smallest I have at the moment is a Canon 28-105.

Anyone have any thoughts of what is currently on offer at the moment? I have to take into account the 1.6X multiplier of the D30.

Something that would give good views from cabin windows, and maybe to get part of the cabin window in as well like Vasco's pic:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia


Now that's a real nice picture Vasco  Smile

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
Aer Lingus
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:37 pm

Weh Hay........Sensay (sp?) has returned !!! Big grin
 
hkg_clk
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:56 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:51 pm

Gary, I think Canon has specially designed some zoom lenses for the D30 to take into account the 1.6x multiplier.

They have the 16-35mm and 17-35mm. Both are F2.8L. The former actually replaces the latter, I think.

If you don't mind a slightly wider angle, you could go for the 30-35mm F3.5-4.5.

See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
 
jettrader
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:01 pm


"16-35mm and 17-35mm. Both are F2.8L"

Gary...if these are Canon 'L' lenses they will be VERY expensive! Best avoided unless you have lots of spare cash to buy what is going to be an infrequently used lens.

I know Tokina do a 19-35mm lens for about 160 GBP...which might do a job for you...

Cheers,
Dean
Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
 
da Fwog
Posts: 845
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 5:25 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:03 pm

Myself, I'm considering one of two offered by Sigma, either the 15-30 DG (which apparently has had pretty good reviews), or maybe the 17-35 EX. Haven't made up my mind yet - I'd appreciate the shorter length of the 15-30, but it is the more pricey of the 2, and because of the extreme wide angle, it won't accept front-mounted filters. Given the conversion factor of the D30, the choice between these two boils down to a consideration of whether I want a wide angle of 24mm or 28mm. I'm not prepared to pay more than this amount for genuine Canon glass, because whatever wide angle I buy will only get a very limited amount of use.

I'm thinking of splashing out on one or the other on my trip to New York next week, so if I do, I'll let you know what I think of it Gary!
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:41 pm

I've got the 17-35mm Canon, but even this does not provide what I would call true wide angle coverage on the D30 ( for me the starting point is 24mm). Certainly I will be hanging on to my EOS 3 for wide angle use for the forseeable future. The new Sigma DX range looks interesting, and at some later date I'd be looking at the 14mm fixed focal length - but who knows what Canon may introduce in the next year?

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 12:00 am

At 1.6x (for the digital) you'd want at most 20/1.6 = 12.5mm focal length. You're treading into ultrawides and fisheyes here, extremely expensive stuff. 15 will do to give you 24mm equivalent.

Those lenses cost, they cost a lot (certainly the good ones do, and the bad ones you won't use more then once or twice because you'll be disappointed. A mediocre tele can give reasonable results, a mediocre wideangle is useless).

Some prices (all in Euros including tax):
primes:
Sigma EX 2.8/14 HSM €1303
Sigma EX 2.8/15 Fisheys €664
Canon EF-L USM 2,8/14 CPS €2541
Canon EF 2,8/15 €945

zooms:
Sigma EX 3,5-4,5/15-30 DG €815
Canon EF-L USM 2,8/16-35 CPS €2138

those are your options yielding a focal length (equivalent) of 25mm or less at the lower end...
Best lens of the bunch is the Canon 14mm prime, worst choice the Sigma 15-30mm (slower, worse optical quality).
A good tradeoff between cost, quality and functionality would be the Sigma 14mm f/2.8. Of these, it's the only one I would really recommend. From my own experience I don't use 24mm (15mm for you) very much, it's either 20 or 35, then on to 70 or so.
I wish I were flying
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:20 am

Hi all

Thanks for the info so far.

I didn't think they would be so expensive. Taking this into account I am in no immediate rush. I might think of getting something before my next long haul journey. Not sure if it's worth getting something before an ABZ-LGW trip  Smile

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:41 am

Can't imagine anywhere at LGW where 24mm or wider would be much use! If there is, please let me know  Smile

Cheers

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Granite
Topic Author
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:26 pm

Hi Colin

There is if you can get airside  Smile

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:20 pm

Gary - lucky b******  Smile

Thinking a bit about Jwenting's comments - which I agree with entirely with relation to film SLRs - I'm wondering if a different set of rules apply to DSLRs.

1 - Fristly, the reason we get a multiplier effect on a DSLR is that the sensor is smaller than a 35mm frame. In effect, the sensor is only using the central portion of the image formed by the lens. Given that the problem with most wide-angles is edge definition and distortion towards the edge of the frame, it could be that faults which would condemn a lens in tests based on a 35mm frame might not even appear in a DSLR based shot - I can't think of any case of a lens not being better towards the center of the image than the edge

2 - Resolution - lens resolving power is a fixed, measurable qualtity ... film is more variable as the emulsion, processing, exposure all affect the ability to resolve fine detail. The DSLR sensor, however, has a known theoretical max resolution - still significantly less than the theoretical max of film. Hence a lens which does less well than others on a bench test may still be capable of providing as good an image as a DSLR can use.

Point is, all lenses are still tested and measured based on 35mm film use. These results may not be entirely useful in relation to the DSLR - it could be very worth while investigating some of the bargain models. It should be possible to go into any decent dealer with your camera and try some shots with top end and lesser lenses on a test target, pop home, check the results on the computer, and make your decision.

It would be interesting to see lens testing done both for the 35mm format and an arbitrary sensor format (say 1.5x).

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:24 pm

Gary,

thanks for the plug. But who said it was taken with a wide angle lens. I was sitting on seat 10A and used 170mm ......  Big grin Big grin

No seriously, it was taken with a Sigma 17-35mm.

Nice lens, not really that cheap but worth it!

Vasco
 
lewis
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:32 pm

ckw: If you have access for the apron, wideangle is very useful. I was in a situation like that a month ago and it was very special because I went to shoot an Olympic 747 before it left the airport. I had a 28-135mm lens but in some shots I needed much less than 28mm. An example is the following photograph (which I hope that gets accepted). As you can see the aircraft couldn't fit in the frame and I didn't have the time to move that far away from the aircraft:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/SX-OAC.jpg

Granite: Look for some wide lenses (stable focal length) like 14mm. Avoid fisheye lenses!!!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:23 pm

Colin, I did take the multiplyer into account  Smile
15mm becomes about 24mm on a digital, which is why I took only lenses of 15mm or less focal length into account.
I wish I were flying
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Wide Angled Advice

Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:39 pm

Jwenting - I realise you took the multiplier effect into account in terms of focal length, but what I don't think you were considering (nor any other lens review I've read to date) is that a lenses optical performance will differ in terms of overall quality on 35mm and sub-35mm size digi sensors ... and, I believe for the better, simply because the sensor only records the centrally formed portion of the image and can't "see" the information towards the edge of the image (where all the really bad stuff hangs out).

In other words, edge definition/distortion which might make a wide angle unnaccetable on 35mm MIGHT not be a factor on a DSLR, simply because this part of the lens "output" is not recorded.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel

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