wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:44 am

Hey all,

Today I had an encounter with the police at my home airport (AMS). Due to the construction of a new road and the 5th runway, there is a construction site near 19R. Due to easter, the site was completely abandoned.

In the old days, there used to be a canal as an airport perimeter (along the runway, just as it is at 06-24)

I have created a little map to show the situation:


The red blocks represent the construction site. The one at the runway's site of the canal is a temporary change of the perimeter. There is a large fence around it. The bridge is a steel pilar you can easily walk across.

Alright, that is the situation, here's what happened. I am standing there taking pictures. (PERFECT site!!!!) Nothing happens for about 2 hours. The otherwise occasional yellow landcruiser from the airside authority is constantly driving around in front of me. But he didn't tell me to get away or even signal me, so I figured he didn't mind me being there.

After aprox. 3 hours I go back over the steel pilar. Suddenly 3 police offers run through the farmland towards me and they start asking me questions and stuff. Now I am officially charged with "walking on airside wihout authorisation".

First of all, I am absolutely flabbergasted, because I haven't come across a single sign or fenceline, so I thought I was perfectly legal where I was!

But now the question is: Do I stand any chance in an eventual lawsuit? ( i AM NOT paying the damn fine!)

What should I do?

Thanks,
Wietse

PS. They didn't take the filmroll! I will post the perfect pictures when they are developed.
Wietse de Graaf
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:57 am

police officers i meant....

ps.. How high will the fine be? (approximately)

Thanks
Wietse de Graaf
 
Guest

RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:02 am

I am not sure about in Europe. But, in the US when I am shooting near a fence, the police officer just comes up to me and tells me to leave, no fine at all. I am sure that it will be maybe $300 or so. But that is just a guess.
 
Guest

RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:04 am

And are you sure that "walking on airside wihout authorisation" is the exact law that you broke?
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:13 am

They accuse me of breaking the perimeter. Forbidden terrain, etc. While I could just walk towards that spot, without any problems. (no fences, signs etc)

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
petertenthije
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:14 am

You were trespassing (spelling?) on the construction site. You were therefore not allowed to be there. I do not know the location, but if the construction site is owned by the airport, than that might mean it is airside.

Even if you were not airside, you were trespassing and therefore you can be fined. Sorry!
Attamottamotta!
 
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apuneger
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:29 am

I'm not sure of this, but how can he be blamed if he didn't cross any fence whatsoever or that they didn't put a sign?

I mean, that's a nice way of arresting people: don't put any sign, and if the cross the canal or so, just arrest them and fine them.

Be sure to take pictures or so of the situation over there. And if I were you, I'd also refuse to pay the fine. Don't let them fool you. If they don't even bother to put a small sign or so, you were unaware of the situation over there.

Stupid cops/airport authority

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
jwenting
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:50 am

Technically you were tresspassing. The construction site is on airport grounds.
If it does go to court (expensive, lawyers etc....) you stand a fair chance if you plead you didn't know you had crossed from the roadside onto the airport grounds but I wouldn't risk it.

Paying the fine is cheaper, just write a complaint about it afterwards to the airport and/or the construction company.

I did see an increased police presense today at Schiphol. Was shooting departures at the 24, several cars coming along the road the wrong way were stopped (something that usually doesn't happen) and fined.
Maybe someone has been cutting holes in the fences again or there was a threat issued.
I wish I were flying
 
ebos
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:14 am

Of course it's a perfect place for pictures, but i think you perfectly knew it was airport territory. Why would a place between the old and the new runway not be airport territory? Last time i was there the construction area was also not completely fenced off but it's pretty obvious that you don't enter the area. Sorry but people like you give other spotters a hard time.

Sven
An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
 
wietse
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:59 am

Hey Sven,

I think you were coming from the other side towards that construction area. Coming from hoofddorp the construction site is pretty much fenced off (didn't see that until after the event). Coming from Badhoevedorp, the site is not obvious, I got there without even seeing it was a construction site. If there had been a fence (open or closed, doesn't matter) I wouldn't have gotten in there. Then I would have just gone along the fence and tried to find a place there.

PS.. the new runway isn't even there yet, and I was in between some farms, so it obviously wasn't airport territory. The only thing they blamed me for was crossing the canal. Which was perfectly ok, as there was a new perimeter fence and a very accessable bridge to the other side.

I am NOT a guy giving other people a hard time... Just some1 who was in the wrong place, but didn't know it...

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
kellmark
Posts: 542
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:47 am

But remember what is happening nowadays. The Middle Eastern situation is getting worse by the hour, and there has been activity in Europe. Expect that things will get worse before they get better.The police don't know who is there, but they know that they are not supposed to be there. For just a hobby, it is not worth it. I would stick to well known, designated areas that will not raise suspicions. All it will take is one incident and you will see very little access to any airport, as has happened in the US.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Legal Advice (NL)

Thu Apr 04, 2002 4:17 am

Well if there were no signs, then I don't think they should fine you, at least in the US they won't or at least shouldn't do that.

All the best,

Dmitry Kudryn.

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