alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
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They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:32 pm

I received an email earlier today informing me that the Southwest's employee website http://www.ifly737.com/ had posted one of my photos. They did quite a nice job of cutting out the United 777 and pasting the bushes from the left hand side to the right but failed to get my permission to use the shot.
Now, I don't care that much, but I feel they should have at least asked my permission. How would you handle this situation? Should I just let it go or email the webmaster and complain? Any help would be appreciated.
Paul

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McRingRing
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:24 pm

You should care. This is your property and they are using it without your permission. You should at least email the webmaster and demand he remove your shot. If I were you, I'd send an invoice, as well - so they get the point that this is not some minor thing. It's stealing.
B==============) ~~~~
 
raaf_mirage
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:18 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:01 pm

Send Invoice.

Charge the tossers for using your property. Demand payment.

J.
 
fuairliner
Posts: 530
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 7:23 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 6:46 pm

Paul,

I would definitely send an invoice in this case. They have cut out the UA 777 in order to conceal the copyright infringement, so they knew what they were doing and they knew it is illegal.


Frank
Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
 
APP
Posts: 502
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 7:11 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:45 pm

Yeah, they've done a great job of removing the 777, but get that invoice sent in to the cheeeky B******s, make sure you make it a big invoice so they get the message loud and clear.
If they want a picture that bad, they can go and take one themselves, it would have been more straightforward than removing the 777!!
APP.
 
boeingholiday
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:59 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:11 pm

the next question here is: how can we protect our pictures? what when somebody take them and doesn't write us an e-mail?
 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:41 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:20 pm

Now, How do you fight them? How much would you (in US currency) ask for. Have any of you taken on the violators and won or even gotten a response?
Paul
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:47 am

I'd be up his butt about this. Not only did he use it without permission, but he altered it digitally to suit his purposes.

Bad all the way around.

If he gives you trouble, send him a link to this thread and he'll see that he's not just dealing with one photographer. He's making his whole website look bad in th eyes of a very strong community.

the next question here is: how can we protect our pictures?

Unfortunately, that's the risk you take when posting images on the web. There's really nothing stopping someone from stealing short of a cease and desist order on legal letterhead.

 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:41 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:14 pm

The message below was sent to me in response to my email regarding the unauthorized use of my photo by Southwest Airlines.
Paul

Dear Paul,

On behalf of Southwest, let me apologize for the use of your picture
without your permission. I am so glad you brought the issue to
Southwest's attention, and deeply regret that this incident has
tarnished your image of our Company. I'm sure had someone asked you
beforehand, you would have been happy to give permission to use your
photo, but, regardless of the reasons, it was incorrect to just make the
assumption that it would be ok with you.

I believe everyone here at Southwest would agree that our success has
at its core its over 35,000 honest and hard working Employees, and that
integrity is a critical element to the Company's continued success. To
Southwest, integrity includes admitting when we are wrong, and Southwest
was wrong to use your photograph on its Intranet without your
permission. Please know that this type of occurrence will not happen
again, to you or anyone else.

I hope that this incident does not forever tarnish your image of
Southwest.
If you would provide me an address, I would like to send you a gesture
of goodwill. Again, our apologies.

Sincerely,
Cindy Buhr
Chief Counsel
Southwest Airlines Co.

 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:48 pm

All i can say is if this was Northwest TowerAir......hehehe
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:59 pm

If only they were ALL so apologetic.

What a classy airline.  Smile
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:00 pm

Gesture of goodwill?

If it is anything under $5,000, I would sue. lol

Keep us posted, let us know what they give you.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:10 pm

Sounds like a genuine e-mail of apology, a timely one at that, even if the principal of "stealing" a copyrighted image is at question. Well done Paul.

I, too, would be interested to know what Ms. Buhr sent you, if you're willing to share.

-Chris
Bonjour Chef!
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:56 pm

Because of the threat of a lawsuit, I wouldn't be surprised if the webmaster got fired over this, and if they were willing to give you thousands in cash.

Big corporations get scared over stuff like this. It's easy for a newspaper to find out, and the bad publicity makes the stock go down.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:41 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 04, 2002 2:35 am

I think this was the honorable thing to do on Southwest part and from my POV it leaves a good taste in my mouth. Thanks Southwest for doing the right thing! Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
chrisair
Posts: 1778
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:58 am

BigPhil,

I doubt that happened. The IT department probably got an email telling them to get permission...

Personally, I'd rather have a pass or two than money...but then, that's just me.

 
Aer Lingus
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 4:06 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:45 am

Goodwill = Free One-way flight ?  Big grin
 
ebos
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:48 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Fri Jul 05, 2002 3:56 am

Another copyright violation...

http://public.fotki.com/Bear50th/belgian_aviation/

I found pictures of Michael Van Bosch, Frank Zahornik, Philippe Bleus, Jan Horions, Jan Cuypers.... and sent the 'photographer' a 'friendly' email... feel free to do the same Big grin

Sven

An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
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RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 17, 2002 1:27 pm

Yesterday I received a letter from Cynthia Buhr of the legal department at Southwest Airlines. In it she apologists again for not getting my permission to use the photo in question. And, "As a gesture if goodwill" she enclosed two round trip tickets (green passes) good for any destination Southwest flies.
Again I want to thank Southwest for admitting their guilt and compensating me in a way I feel is more than adequate. Way to go Southwest Big thumbs up

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flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Wed Jul 17, 2002 2:37 pm

Now that they send you the passes... you gonna let 'em use the picture?

Flyboy36y
 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:41 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:14 am

They only used it for about 3 days as the page it was posted on changes all the time.
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:10 am

The free trip passes were one thing, but that picture is copyrighted to you because you took the photo, and then they used it without your permission. I would try to do something more than get a free trip as SWA just did a copyright violation.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
chazzerguy
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:06 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:36 am

All the talk of money and everything is all fine and dandy, but frankly if it was me I think all I would have asked for was a photo credit on the site... Guess I'm just a wimp  Smile ! But seriously, the ego boost probably woulda been all the payment I needed. However, 1) I think you had/have grounds for a suit and 2) I also think it was a pretty class act for SWA to give you the passes.

Unfortunately, Internet theft of copyrighted material happens all too often... But if a violator shows contrition, that would be enough to satisfy me...

 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:23 pm

You got two free tickets, you should be a very happy man.

 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:24 pm

Two free tickets... on SWA? How worthless, even if they were first class seats.

oh my god, you have been totally, utterly ripped off.

What if it was my picture? I live in Colorado and we don't see SWA, thankfully. What would they do for me? They'd have to send cash, and it would have to be a lot of it. If I were you Paul, I would have threatened to sue and try to get a couple grand in "hush money".

I don't believe this.
 
sdjminton
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:17 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Sat Jul 27, 2002 7:46 pm

Oh whoopee, I know what we'll do...We'll send some kid a couple freebie passes to shut him up.

If I were you, I'd return them telling them where to shove them and ask for monetary compensation. As a guide, freelance photography is charged around ??1,250 per shot ($2,300).

Go for the cash mate.

 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:27 pm

You guys are nuts !. Do you think your David Bailey ?

They have sent you two free tickets and said sorry. Why is it in the States everyone has to sue each other ?. How much did that shot cost you ?. The answer is NOTHING, Yes they should have asked you and it was wrong of them to use it without asking you but they have said sorry so drop it at that.

If you want to go for US$ 2300 then try it, should be fun.

One more thing, if you don't want people to use your shots then don't put them on airliners.net.

 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6030
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:42 pm

If someone like Southwest used my photo, I would kindly inform them that they were using it without my permission, as you did. However when they give me two tickets I would be more than happy, and let them use whatever photos they wanted.

I am not in photography to make money, as I am sure is the case with many of you. If a large company wants to use one of my pictures, that's great. If they want to give me something for it, that's even better, however the fact that someone wants the picture is enough of a payment. What's all this about sueing, and huge amounts of money? I think some are losing their perspective.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:02 pm

I'm sure the person posting the photo got reprimanded and it was done against company policy.
Personally, I wouldn't do more right now but I would keep an eye on them for a while. If they go it again, send a large (but fair, ask a pro for what the rates are, most will be happy to tell) bill (with a 100% surcharge which is normal) and a letter giving them say a week to pay up.
Only if that bill is not paid go to a lawyer (and demand they pay legal fees as well of course).
I wish I were flying
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:17 am

The use of the photo was obviously a mistake of one person, the webmaster. The airline recognized their mistake and remedied it quickly.

Usage fees for that image as it was used (small placement, brief impression on a web site and for a a selective audience) is not worth $2300. Web usage is notoriously low yielding. This image was not misused by TIME magazine folks.

Though, if you REALLY wanted to make yourself look like an ass and pretty much blackball yourself from any possible future work with the likes of Southwest, by all means... sue to your hearts content. Chances are you will lose more money than you make.

The way Paul handled it was a best-case scenario. Not only did he get a formal apology and monetary compensation, but he opened a professional dialogue with them. They obviously like his work, you never know, he may get a call in the future from them. Or, maybe Paul could actively strike a deal with the web site to supply them with imagery for an agreed price.  Laugh out loud Lemonade from lemons I'd say.



 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: They Took My Shot And Didn't Ask Permission!

Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:40 pm

Or, maybe Paul could actively strike a deal with the web site to supply them with imagery for an agreed price. Lemonade from lemons I'd say.

Sometimes what appears to be a hit early on, can result in much larger gains later on if you don't push it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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