DSMav8r
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Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:52 pm

Well, some suspicions about the D100 have now been confirmed...Nikon is recalling all first shipment D100s in the U.S. and Canada. Apparently, all D100s *currently* shipping have been corrected.

Here is the link:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1027703635.html


Aric Thalman
Omaha, NE
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
LGW
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:31 pm

Another Nikon sucess...why not just buy a d60 and be done with it Big grin

LGW
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:40 pm

Why buy a D60 when you can buy an S2?  Big grin

Seriously though, this has happened with Canon as well...Remember the whole 1D fiasco?
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
LGW
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:30 pm

Ah, 1D  Insane D30/60 forever  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Buy an S what?  Laugh out loud

LGW
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:47 pm

How many MP will the D100 have, and how much is it?

-Dmitry
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:01 pm

6MP (3008x2000) and $1,999.
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
L-188
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:12 pm

You wouldn't have that problem with Kodachrome.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
5280AGL
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:34 pm

Oh yeah --- and by the time my kodachrome slides get back to me I will be old and gray ...with inferior results to what you can get from even a consumer digicam.
 
fuairliner
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:03 pm

"Oh yeah --- and by the time my kodachrome slides get back to me I will be old and gray ...with inferior results to what you can get from even a consumer digicam."

A Kodachrome K64 slide still contains more details than any of the high-end digital SLRs can capture. When a slide is scanned some data is lost, but a well-scanned K64 slide (or any other slide) has a better quality on the screen than most of the pictures produced by "consumer" digital cameras (prices lower than US$800).


Frank
Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
 
joe pries
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:06 pm

A Kodachrome K64 slide still contains more details than any of the high-end digital SLRs can capture. When a slide is scanned some data is lost, but a well-scanned K64 slide (or any other slide) has a better quality on the screen than most of the pictures produced by "consumer" digital cameras (prices lower than US$800).

Frank
=====================
simple solution Frank- shoot kodachrome and use a D60!  Big grin  Big grin

on the D100- i was just having a conversation with some of the guys here on email yesterday about Phil's review that says the D100 images are soft and now this- oh man, i can see things heating up again today with these guys
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Joe
 
L-188
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:09 pm

Well let them boil.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
USAir_757
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:18 pm

Good old digital...see why I'm staying with film until I have no other choice?
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
joe pries
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:42 pm

Hey USAir757, I never had even one single problem with my digital camera- just amazing results (D60)

Joe
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 12:53 am

I think there are still misconceptions about film vs. digital. Film, in an unscanned state is more detailed than any digital shot. It is when a slide goes through the scanning process that things change. Unless you have an expensive drum scanner ($5,000-$200,000), you are going to lose quite a bit of the detail in your shots. This is where digital has a big advantage...It gets rid of the "middleman" and has one less process to go through before it is in digital state.

If you do some searching, there are tons of comparison reviews on the web. ALL of them conclude that digital is superior to any film for web and enlargement applications.
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
jwenting
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:00 am

If you do some searching, there are tons of comparison reviews on the web. ALL of them conclude that digital is superior to any film for web and enlargement applications.

Not what I have read... For web images maybe (anyone can make a 72dpi image at 640x480 which is all that is usually required for the web) but for enlargements you want the maximum amount of data you can get.
Digital machines like the Fuji Frontier don't do very large sizes for a reason: they can't make them good enough, only a tradiational enlarger can...

Even a cheaper scanner produces more data than a digital camera. At 2900dpi, a Minolta Dimage II produces scans of approximately equivalent to an 11 MP digital camera. No current commercially available digicam comes close.
The more expensive units like the Nikon Coolscan 4000 produce 60-100 MP easily.
I wish I were flying
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:20 am

Long live film cameras.

A took the decision last year to remain a film shooter.

Sorry folks, but in my opinion, digital is cheating. You take a shot, you see how it is, you don't like it? You delete it and take the shot again.

Doesn't teach you how to become a good photographer. While in film, you shoot, you wait a few days for your film to be developed and the results turn out bad. So you try even HARDER next time, and you improve your skills.

That's the way to learn if you ask me.

One thing that I do not like about digital is it's color accuracy. While some are better than others. I've noticed digitals are not nearly as good in color accuracy as Kodachrome or other films. Whites have in general a slight yellow tone in them, blue's have a tint of green or they turn out too blueish.

Also, you get the "digital grain" in dark blues sometimes. Blue is the hardest color for digital from what I have observed.

I'll be shooting my first slide roll next week (Sensia 100). Then once I get better, I'll move on to K64 or Provia 100F.  Smile

Don't forget that true professional photographers such as John Fielder (nature photographer with several books) still uses a traditional film SLR. Also the studios still use film and not digital.

I agree, digital is convenient. You don't have to pay for film or developing, and you have the photos instantly. But part of photography in my opinion is waiting for your photos to be developed and finding out the results AFTER a few days and not instantly after you take the photo.

My only complaint about film photogrpahy is the cost pf film and development. But that's life. You have to pay for things. I better get a job soon.  Smile

Just my humble opinion about film vs. digital.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:14 am

"Sorry folks, but in my opinion, digital is cheating. You take a shot, you see how it is, you don't like it? You delete it and take the shot again.

Doesn't teach you how to become a good photographer. While in film, you shoot, you wait a few days for your film to be developed and the results turn out bad. So you try even HARDER next time, and you improve your skills."

How is it cheating?

Ok with the second part i disagree totally. Digital cameras IMO are better for learning because you dont have to waste money or time on film and scanning. Also you can see right away waht your results are not wait 3-4 days or more. You can try harder right away on the next plane not the next time you go to the airport.

"One thing that I do not like about digital is it's color accuracy. While some are better than others. I've noticed digitals are not nearly as good in color accuracy as Kodachrome or other films. Whites have in general a slight yellow tone in them, blue's have a tint of green or they turn out too blueish."

You can usually fix colors with Photoshop if it craps up.
 
5280AGL
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:14 am

BA --- I disagree with most of what you said.

How is digital cheating? So, you don't have to buy film, pay the lab x-amount for developing, and then find someplace to store the prints/slides. If anything, digital is BETTER than a film SLR at teaching you to be a good photographer. Instead of having to wait to get your film processed to see your mistakes, you can see them instantly and adjust accordingly. You don't have that luxury when shooting film, plus you are still at the mercy of the developing process, what you see if may not be what you originally shot. With digital, what you see is what you get and you have complete control over the final image. It is kind of hard to tell what you did wrong when Joe Bob at the Walmart photo center is correcting your photos for you with his machine.

Your digital grain comment holds no truth whatsoever, you have obviously never shot a professional digital SLR (D30, D60, D1X, D1H, S1, S2, D100). Go take a look at a.net members shots who use professional digital bodies (Joe, Colin, Chris, Peter, Aric, Gerry, ...and many more) and tell me their shots are noisy and subpar compared to film.

True professional photographers only use film? Are you serious? What planet are you from? I only know a handful of true professionals who still use film, plus the world's best wildlife photographer, Moose Peterson is a Nikon D1H user. As for studio photographers, almost all of them use digital as well, unless medium format is needed. Professionals who use film have automatically put themselves at a disadvantage. While they are sitting around getting their slides processed, Joe Blow with the D1 has already processed his photo and has had it published. Most publications want digital images now. I know this very well, my entire family consists of professional photographers, including my wife who is a photojournalist for the Chicago Tribune, do you think they use film? No, they use Nikon D1Xs and D1Hs.

I agree that film still has its place, but digital is a better solution for most working professionals and advanced hobbiests.
 
Dufo
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:17 am

Take a look at these wonderful large format photos...

Dean Allchin @Airliners.net

Jernej
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:53 am

Doesn't teach you how to become a good photographer. While in film, you shoot, you wait a few days for your film to be developed and the results turn out bad.

Oh yeh... With digital, you notice your mistake there and then, correct it, and learn by what you did and don't make the same mistake next time. With film, by the time you've waited a few days for your film to be developed, you can't remember what you did that was wrong. Good way to learn... NOT!  Big grin

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 4:38 am

Digital cameras IMO are better for learning because you dont have to waste money or time on film and scanning.

Who said learning is free?

You can usually fix colors with Photoshop if it craps up.

Then that's a problem isn't it?

Instead of having to wait to get your film processed to see your mistakes, you can see them instantly and adjust accordingly. You don't have that luxury when shooting film, plus you are still at the mercy of the developing process, what you see if may not be what you originally shot. With digital, what you see is what you get and you have complete control over the final image. It is kind of hard to tell what you did wrong when Joe Bob at the Walmart photo center is correcting your photos for you with his machine.

That is EXACTLY why I believe digital is cheating. It doesn't teach you patience, it doesn't teach you to accept mistakes. Because you simply delete those mistakes and don't take the time to learn from them.

Digital is taking the EASY way out. And the easy way out is not always the best way out. I like a challenge. Digital is not a challenge.

Your digital grain comment holds no truth whatsoever, you have obviously never shot a professional digital SLR (D30, D60, D1X, D1H, S1, S2, D100). Go take a look at a.net members shots who use professional digital bodies (Joe, Colin, Chris, Peter, Aric, Gerry, ...and many more) and tell me their shots are noisy and subpar compared to film.

Oh, a D60 isn't professional enough? I've handled many digitals before, plus seen examples comparing them with film. Digital grain shows up in practically ALL digital cameras depending on the exposure, and the color. Take a good look at the examples on Airliners.net. Many of them have these dark blotches in the blue sky. Not nice if you ask me.

True professional photographers only use film? Are you serious? What planet are you from? I only know a handful of true professionals who still use film, plus the world's best wildlife photographer, Moose Peterson is a Nikon D1H user. As for studio photographers, almost all of them use digital as well, unless medium format is needed. Professionals who use film have automatically put themselves at a disadvantage. While they are sitting around getting their slides processed, Joe Blow with the D1 has already processed his photo and has had it published. Most publications want digital images now. I know this very well, my entire family consists of professional photographers, including my wife who is a photojournalist for the Chicago Tribune, do you think they use film? No, they use Nikon D1Xs and D1Hs.

90% of professional photographers (any kind, not just aviation) shoot slides. You do the math.

I agree that film still has its place, but digital is a better solution for most working professionals and advanced hobbiests.

I entirely disagree there. Why don't you tell to that slide shooters?

Another thing, have you ever heard of something called a PERSONAL OPINION? You take things very personally and when someone says something you don't like, you get offended! That's how your post sounds.

Oh yeh... With digital, you notice your mistake there and then, correct it, and learn by what you did and don't make the same mistake next time. With film, by the time you've waited a few days for your film to be developed, you can't remember what you did that was wrong. Good way to learn... NOT!

It is a good way to learn. Because it's challenging. And the harder something is, the more you learn, because the more effort you put it.

I believe digital is good for quick, fast shots such as photos of family. But when it comes to professional photography as a job, or just as a hobby. Slides are the way to go on a traditional film SLR. This is why most professional photographers shoot slides. This is my own opinon.

Again folks. These are MY own personal opinions and there are others that share it aswell. NO ONE has to disagree with me. Why do you seem to take them so personally? Aren't I free to have my own opinion? You are free to have your own opinions, and I am free to have my own opinion.

Don't criticise me because I have a different view from yours.

That's all I have to say. I expressed my views about digital vs. film.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
5280AGL
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:11 am

BA --- Since when were you an authority on anything? You obviously are very lackluster in knowledge when it comes to photography, your rants and false information prove that quite well.

How can you logically sit there and say that digital is the easy way out and film is more challenging? Last time I checked, it was pretty easy to drop my film off at some 1 hour photo lab, only to have them develop and digitally correct my photos for me so I can have nice prints. At least with digital [b]I[/b] have the final authority as to how they look. How is that the easy way out? You tell me, you're the genius, apparently.

Also, I have no idea where you came with the notion that 90% of professional photographers use slide film. That is probably the funniest thing I have heard you say. Again, you tell me how you have obtained this vast wealth of knowledge when it comes professional photography? How many professionals do you know? I probably know 100, not including 12 members of my family that do this for a living. Out of all of those people, I probably know 3 or 4 who don't use digital. Why? Because those people either cannot afford the equipment or they have contracts with a film company.

Lastly, I am not offended by your post per se, it just irritates me a that a know-it-all, KID like you who obviously knows nothing about photography is trying to lock horns with people who were shooting before you were even a blastula. I am glad that you are loyal to film, congrats. But, you really need to re-evaluate your facts, because you are completely wrong.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:14 am

Hey Joe at least Nikon fixes the problems before the ship out 1000 bodies unlike Canon (D60) where a few months down the road you have upgrade the firmware. I've heard a few people had a bunch of problems with the firmware upgrade and shipped their (useless) D60 back to Canon. Hmmmmm scary I say.

Mike
 
DSMav8r
Topic Author
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:36 am

Yikes! This topic started out friendly enough.  Smile

BA,

I also have to humbly disagree with many things that you have said, most of which were already covered.

90% of pro's use slide film: COMPLETELY untrue

Digital is less challenging than film: false

Digital is cheating: Prove it

Digital is grainy: Show me a Provia or KR scan that is clearer & sharper than a D60 image.

You learn more when using film: How so? Andy made a very good point about this...Seems the opposite to me.

Digital isn't a better choice for professionals: Tell that to a newspaper photog or to anyone on a deadline.

Digital has poor color accuracy: Come shoot my D1H and tell me it has poor accuracy. If you expose your shot properly, this won't be a factor. This applies to film as well.

To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:44 am

Since when were you an authority on anything?

What on earth are you talking about?
It seems like you like to stir up trouble.

You obviously are very lackluster in knowledge when it comes to photography, your rants and false information prove that quite well.

And you know better? Please.......

How can you logically sit there and say that digital is the easy way out and film is more challenging? Last time I checked, it was pretty easy to drop my film off at some 1 hour photo lab, only to have them develop and digitally correct my photos for me so I can have nice prints. At least with digital I have the final authority as to how they look. How is that the easy way out? You tell me, you're the genius, apparently.

It doesn't take a smart one to answer this one. In digital, once you take the photo is instantly there available for you to look at and decide whether it's good or not. If it's good, you keep it. If it's bad, you simply delete it.

When you take are using film, you don't see the results for a few days until after the photo is developed. You keep asking yourself "How will they turn out? What can I do next time to improve them?". After a few days when the photos are developed, you get them back and you see the final result. Whether they are good or bad, you can't "delete" them. And what's done is done. You CAN'T go back to the scene and take the photo again. What's done is done. You blew it, it's time to improve your skills and move on.

Now is that really difficult to understand Chris? Give me a break.....

Also, I have no idea where you came with the notion that 90% of professional photographers use slide film.

Statistics, surveys. Is it that hard?

Lastly, I am not offended by your post per se

You sure sound like it.

it just irritates me a that a know-it-all, KID like you who obviously knows nothing about photography is trying to lock horns with people who were shooting before you were even a blastula.

Excuse me? KID? Is that how you treat others on this forum? By calling them a KID? Did you bother to check my profile? If you did, you would've seen it says 16-20. That's not a KID. I assume someone who is 26-35 is also a kid according to you?

You assume things too many things. I don't know anything about photography? I've been into aviation photography for 3 years now. I've been using cameras since I was 5 years old taking pictures of family, and other things with a simple Minolta point-and-shoot. Don't tell me I know nothing about photography.

But, you really need to re-evaluate your facts, because you are completely wrong.

Interesting........

It's you that needs to re-evaluate your facts and CHILL OUT.

You take things so personally, it's incredible.

Your insults toward me simply show that you don't know much about this topic and that insulting me is the only way to prove that you are superior and know more about photography than me.

I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who behaves like this.

If you carried it out in a calm, polite manner then I would've continued this discussion with you. But that is it for me.

I'm not offended by your remarks at all. I'm just not going to waste my time with you anymore.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:46 am

Always thought Gerry used a F707.....

"90% of professional photographers (any kind, not just aviation) shoot slides. You do the math."

Did you just make that up?

"Digital is taking the EASY way out. And the easy way out is not always the best way out. I like a challenge. Digital is not a challenge."

Ok so if you had the choice between a Pentium 2 and a Pentium 4 what would you take? Older technology gets obsolete (sp?) over a period of time.

"It is a good way to learn. Because it's challenging. And the harder something is, the more you learn, because the more effort you put it."

You learn by making mistakes and fixing them the next time to shoot. The challenging part of shooting SLR vs Digital is you have to remember what you did wrong, what settings you used and you have to wait extra time to go back to the airport.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:48 am

Digital is taking the EASY way out. And the easy way out is not always the best way out. I like a challenge. Digital is not a challenge. [Film] is a good way to learn. Because it's challenging. And the harder something is, the more you learn, because the more effort you put it.

Well then BA, in that case I guess you should sell that Pentax ZX-7 and go out and buy a good old manual-focus no-auto-exposure camera, and a hand held light meter. Because be sure that if digital is cheating, on the same basis anyone who uses auto-focus, or auto exposure modes, or built in through-the-lens light meters, is cheating just as much. You'll learn far more from taking light meter readings, setting the aperture and shutter speed yourself, and then rotating that wierd thing on the lens that makes the pictures go sharp or fuzzy. Zenith used to make a good range of such cameras with screw mount lenses - go buy yourself a challenge.

The trick in this world is not to immediately embrace all new technology, nor to deny it for ever, but to judge the jump from one to another correctly. However, there'll always be at least one luddite.

Also, none of us here should try to help you with autofocus problems on your camera anymore - having someone else solve the problem is cheating and you'll learn a lot more if you're left to sort it out for yourself - it'll be more of a challenge!

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
5280AGL
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 6:50 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:59 am

Damn, if Gerry uses an F707, I am impressed ... They look like SLR shots.

BA -- Whatever, you are obviously content on sticking to your "facts", which are way out in left field. Strange how nobody seems to be agreeing with you, hmmm ... imagine that ... you must know more than them as well, LOL. Oh, what I would do to be able to trade in my 20+ years of photography experience in order to obtain the knowledge that you seem to pocess.  Insane
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:09 am

From what I've read/heard.... when the the D60 debuted it had it shares of bugs and kept it hush hush from consumers. That's why Canon issued a firmware upgrade to correct those bugs.... and also that some people now have had problems with the firmware upgrade and as a result have had to send their D60s back to Canon. Pretty scary thought I think...
For now I sit back... read digital reviews and listen to opinions/feedback from consumers. We'll see... maybe one day.

I'm not sure who on here said that professional publications mainly use only digital images.... but I can assure you that's not nearly true. As far as avation press goes, two major aviation magazines here (Airways and Airliners) use slides for "most" of their print work.

Nothing out there yet has more detail and quality than an actual slide photo... now granted, when a slide is scanned for web use that's where the image degrades somewhat (the middle man factor), but if any one of us here could afford a professional DRUM scanner. Which cost mega$$$$... those slides scans would look superb and mint and superior to any digital currently out now. One day digital will surpass the quality of an actual slide... but right now it's not there yet. Don't get me wrong boys... I love what I'm seeing from digital these days. The technology is ever booming...

~Carlos
 
BA
Posts: 10133
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:11 am

DSMav8r,

90% of pro's use slide film: COMPLETELY untrue

Tell that to the people who concluded the study.

Digital is less challenging than film: false

That's your opinion. I have mine.

Digital is cheating: Prove it

I did in every one of my replies in this post.

Digital is grainy: Show me a Provia or KR scan that is clearer & sharper than a D60 image.

Digital is not grainy, it's blotchy on colors.

Here is a comparison for you between digital and film.

Digital:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/206284/L/
K64:
http://www.eastmids.flyer.co.uk/G-YMMI5.JPG

You be the judge and pick which is better. I've already picked mine.

You learn more when using film: How so? Andy made a very good point about this...Seems the opposite to me.

I've said it in every one of my replies in this post already.

Digital isn't a better choice for professionals: Tell that to a newspaper photog or to anyone on a deadline.

Newspaper photographers make up the majority of professional photographers?

Digital has poor color accuracy: Come shoot my D1H and tell me it has poor accuracy. If you expose your shot properly, this won't be a factor. This applies to film as well.

Compare the above 2 shots. The white on the fuselage has a yellow tone while on the K64 film, it's pure white. Exactly how British Airway's livery is. Take a look at the sky also. The sky has a slight greenish tone (never seen a green sky before), while the K64 shot is pure blue.

These are MY opinions. Respect that! You don't have to agree with them. These are MY own personal opinions. If I feel digital is cheating, then let it be. You believe differently fine.

Why is it so hard to accept other people's views? Am I forcing my opinion on you? I don't think so, if I am please let me know. Don't force your opinion on mine.

I stand by what I said, and that's that. These are my own opinions.

LOT767-300ER,

Did you just make that up?

Read my previous post.

Ok so if you had the choice between a Pentium 2 and a Pentium 4 what would you take? Older technology gets obsolete (sp?) over a period of time.

Pentium 4, because I have a lot of programs that won't work on a Pentium 2. Now what does this have to do with digital vs. film? Are you saying film is the Pentium 2, and digital is the Pentium 4? Interesting comparison. It doesn't even work out!

The challenging part of shooting SLR vs Digital is you have to remember what you did wrong, what settings you used and you have to wait extra time to go back to the airport.

That's exactly why it's challenging.

Skymonster,

That's how my dad did it with is old Pentax Spotmatic and 20 year old Nikon. Maybe I'll give it a shot one day.

You are right, that is an even bigger challenge. I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Another thing I don't like about digital is you don't have a hard copy. It's a computer image. Sure, you can make prints, and even slides out of them. But they are not originals. The original is a computer image. While in print film, the original is the 35MM negative and in slides the original is the slide.

Also, digital cameras are always becoming obsolete and outdated by newer better digitals that are coming out. In 3 years, people will look back at the D60 as a regular D-SLR and nothing special. Quality standards in digital will keep going up and the only way to keep up to date with them is to keep buying a new digital every year.

Now if you have that type of money to spend, then great. Buy a new DSLR every year. Infact, buy one every 6 months. But the average person cannot spend that much.

While in film, the quality of the photo has to do with the film used. If a new better higher quality film comes out. That's no problem, you can use it in your 20 year old SLR.

Just think about it, a 20 year old SLR can produce AS good (and possibly better) images than a modern film SLR (such as my ZX-7). That's not the case with digital, unless you are always replacing the CCD. You might aswell keep buying a new digital.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Staffan
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:16 am

I shoot slides, and I have not one, but TWO Pentax Spotmatics, purchased in the late sixties. Wooohoo, I'm a Pro!!!  Big grin

Staffan

 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:17 am

Thanks for sharing that Carlos.

I know there are a couple aviation magazines that will only accept slides if you want your photos published in there magazines.

You have to actually send them the ORIGINAL slide. Aviation Week might be one of them. Not too sure though.

A drum scanner would've been nice, but it took me more than a year to save up $400 for my Scan Dual II which I just got yesterday. I'm very pleased with it so far.

Another note about the digital. The Canon D60 costs $2700 for the body ONLY (on B&H). Now, lets get back to what we were talking about how new improved digitals are coming out that are making previous models obsolete.

Your spending $2700 for something that will become obsolete in a year compared to what will be out then (whether it's an 8 megapixel digital or a highly improved CCD). That's why I don't like digital. With film, you can keep up with technology. You simply start buying the "new" film.

To some, $2700 is fine if it becomes obsolete in a year. If that's you, then great. You have nothing to worry about then. But I and many others don't have $2700 to spew out every year.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:19 am

Staffan,

My dad has a Pentax SPOTMATIC from the 60's also.

That is one amazing camera. But it's HEAVY!

If I want to start using it, I better start working out.  Big grin

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Staffan
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:22 am

Considering what some people spend on film and development, the money spent on a DSLR pays back rather quickly, plus the fact that you can take as many photos as you like without worrying about money.


 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:23 am

One more note and then I'm going to to get some fresh air.

I am NOT in ANY way attacking digital cameras and there users. I am SIMPLY expressing my views about digital vs. film.

If you are a digital user, that's great. I hope you are enjoying it. I am in no way saying you are wrong for using digital.

Everyone makes there own decisions, and everyone chooses what type of camera they want to use.

I chose film. I expressed my feelings about digital and that's it. My own views about it.

If your views are different, then that's GREAT.

Enjoy your camera.

Again, I am in NO WAY attacking digital cameras. I am simply expressing my own views.

Last time I came to this forum a while ago, I was able to express my view freely.

I guess that has changed now...........
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:24 am

Me myself... I think Paul's digital shot looks better. And I shoot K64.
~Carlos

"BA wrote"

Here is a comparison for you between digital and film.

Digital:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/206284/L/
K64:
http://www.eastmids.flyer.co.uk/G-YMMI5.JPG
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:24 am

Staffan,

Like I said, cost is my biggest complaint about film photography.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Staffan
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:27 am

My biggest complaint about film is that so few labs can develop without scratching the hell out of my slides...

Hey, BA, wanna join my club DRD (Dare Refuse Digital)?  Smile

Staffan
(Still with film because he can't afford a digital)
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:29 am

Carlos Borda,

Detail wise, Paul's shot may be better.

But I didn't like the colors in his shot like I said earlier.

Also for some reason, Andy's K64 shot is sharper than Paul's digital shot.

If you look at the passenger windows or cockpit windows, you'll see the difference in sharpness. Andy's K64 shot has "less fuzzies" and is more solid than the cockpit windows in Paul's digital shot.

Like FUAirliner said. The detail in slides is still a lot higher than in digital. Even the top of the line film scanners can't pick up all the details in a slide.

I don't take aviation photos ONLY to put them up on Airliners.net. I use them for other things aswell such as looking at them through a slide projector, or just looking at them while holding them in my hand.

If my only reason for taking photos was to put them on Airliners.net, then maybe digital would've been a good idea. But that's not the case for me.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:32 am

LOL Staffan.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:35 am

Let me make myself clear... I said for the "most" part Airways and Airliners use slides for the bulk of their print work, but I think the newest issue of Airliners is using one digital image now shot by crooked eye Joe. The Travelspan 757 shot (it's in that issue Joe? I didn't get mine yet).
So aviation press is coming around now and warming up to digital.... finally!
To me that makes a big different personally because I contribute to those publications. Again... I sit back and read reviews and listen to consumer feedback. It's only a matter of time for me... but I still won't ever stop shooting slides. Digital will be complimenting my photography along with the slides. 50mm sunny side-on shots on slides and artsy farsty stuff on digital.
~Carlos

BA wrote:

>Thanks for sharing that Carlos.
I know there are a couple aviation magazines that will only accept slides if you want your photos published in there magazines<
 
Skymonster
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:39 am

Well, on the comparison, we had a debate about that some time ago. The K64 image is very contrasty, the colours on the digital not quite what I like. BUT, the comparison is not really valid as no one knows what post-processing I applied to the digital image after I scanned the slide.

BA,

you said I am NOT in ANY way attacking digital cameras and there users.

Sure, that's fine. But by the time you said that you'd changed position a bit in that you were by that time arguing against digital on the basis of cost versus longevity, which wasn't quite where you started out. Rveryone has a slightly different view in the digital versus film QUALITY debate, and these different views will continue for ages - until the last 35mm film is sold, or even after that, probably. However, the reason why you've stirred things up is that you've called digital a cheat - that's plain wrong. Its different, but certainly not a cheat.

Back to the original topic:

Finally, on the D60 firmware thing, I shot 140 pics on my new D60 today - firmware 1.0.0 (the old version) - and I have no complaints. So whatever the supposed defects in the camera software, I have no need to try to upgrade it at least for now.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:44 am

It's all a matter of personal viewing taste... in this particular example shown, to me on the web the digital image from Paul looks more appealing and has a very artsy look to it with the warmness of it. But I'm 100% sure at one of our slide shows Andy's actual K64 slide would look superb!  Big grin

~Carlos

BA writes:

>Carlos Borda,

Detail wise, Paul's shot may be better.

But I didn't like the colors in his shot like I said earlier.

Also for some reason, Andy's K64 shot is sharper than Paul's digital shot.

If you look at the passenger windows or cockpit windows, you'll see the difference in sharpness. Andy's K64 shot has "less fuzzies" and is more solid than the cockpit windows in Paul's digital shot.

Like FUAirliner said. The detail in slides is still a lot higher than in digital. Even the top of the line film scanners can't pick up all the details in a slide.

I don't take aviation photos ONLY to put them up on Airliners.net. I use them for other things aswell such as looking at them through a slide projector, or just looking at them while holding them in my hand.

If my only reason for taking photos was to put them on Airliners.net, then maybe digital would've been a good idea. But that's not the case for me.

Regards<
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:31 pm

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:52 am

Hey Andy.... from what I've read the firmware upgrades are for features that I'm sure we would never use for aviation photo related.

Sometimes myself I forget that normal people out there use their cameras for other real stuff other than shooting planes!  Big grin

~Carlos

Andy wrote:

>Finally, on the D60 firmware thing, I shot 140 pics on my new D60 today - firmware 1.0.0 (the old version) - and I have no complaints. So whatever the supposed defects in the camera software, I have no need to try to upgrade it at least for now.<
 
DSMav8r
Topic Author
Posts: 575
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:53 am

BA,

I respect your opinion. I am just concurring with others on here that some of your arguments are not based in fact. Hell, I shot Kodachrome for 10 years and Provia for 3 before I took the digital plunge. If I actually felt that either one of those produced better results I would still be using them. I don't have a $2,000 Nikon F5 sitting in my camera bag, dormant just because I like to throw money down the toilet. I am not biased towards film or digital, I choose to use what produces that best results. Now, if I somehow won the lottery and could afford to go out and buy a 5 or 6-figure drum scanner, I would! But, the fact remains that none of the slide/film scanners that are being offered to consumers can match the quality that a high-end digital SLR can offer, they simply aren't good enough.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but you have not shown us one shred of evidence that supports the facts that you presented. It is kind of difficult to convince those of us who have shot countless photos with both digital & film (and the know the capabilities & limitations of each) that your claims are nothing more than biased, personal opinion.
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:14 am

50mm sunny side-on shots on slides and artsy farsty stuff on digital.

Exactly why I bought my F707....artsy fartsy type shots (flight deck, cabin and other misc. type shots). If it doesn't turn out, I can keep trying, instead of wasting film like I used to.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:31 pm

I should be getting a Spotmatic in a few days, to suplement my Zenit.

Any tips from you guys.

Now there is a proper camera:D
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:40 pm

ok lets clear one thing up:

K64 = amazing slide, poor scan (I have yet to see a K64 scan that looks better than most digital images from digicams).

Digital = nice on the computer screen, but lacks the realism and detail of K64 and other slide films.

Have a nice day!! I will!
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Nikon Recalls The D100

Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:17 pm

EGGD, youre wrong my friend- take a look at my uploads and some otheres here who have mastered kodachrome 64 AND digital- both can yield phenomenal results and K64 is easy as pie to scan- like i've said in the past i've scanned it with my consumer brand HP S20 and my professional Nikon 4000ED- both scan K64 like a champ -so everytime people say K64 doesnt scan well, i have to refer you to some of my pics and many others here who scan K64 just fine

Joe

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