Delta777-XXX
Topic Author
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:16 am

I have recently started doing a lot of aerial photography for people. We go up in a Cessna 152 or 172 and fly about 500ft above the ground. I take pictures of upscale homes, construction, businesses, etc... It brings in pretty good money!

I went to a guy last week that told me it is illegal now. He said that you could do it before 9/11 but that it is now illegal.

Anyone know about this?


Thanks,
Hank  Big thumbs up
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:23 am

It is not illegal. There are very few, if any, laws that have changed since 9-11. People need to get a grip.

The FAA has made some areas more restrictive and have closed some VFR corridors around what are considered high risk target areas, ie...military bases, but that is it. Tell your friend he is full of it.

T.
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:28 am

I don't know were you're from but in my country (Portugal) it's not illegal, the question is that you can't just go on a C152 and take photos to earn money, you have to ask a licence to our civil aviation authority to make aerial photography as a job.

Luis
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:32 am

Hank,

Whether or not 9/11 has changed anything I know not, but there is one thing to be very careful of...

I presume when you say "we", you mean yourself with a camera and someone else flying the airplane. If whoever is flying the airplane receives some of the money you make from the photography, or if you pay him for flying the airplane, and that pilot holds only a private pilot certificate (i.e. not a commercial certificate) then you are almost certainly doing something illegal.

If a pilot, any pilot, is making any money from flying, then the MUST hold a commercial licence. If not, then at best you are illegal, at worst if there was an accident any insurance would be invalidated and you'd both be responsible for any liabilities.

Of course, if whoever is flying holds a commercial ticket, then things are probably OK.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6598
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:23 am

What if I wanted an aerial photo of an airport? Is this now illegal?
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:27 am

It is not illegal to take photos from an airplane. If you can get into an airplane and legally fly over something you can take a photo of it. Obvioulsy FAA regulations will restrict some areas that you cannot fly through or over.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 3:36 am

Using the photos is another matter of course. Companies might not like photos of their buildings being sold and could sue, especially if the building is a registered trademark (yes, it has happened and yes, the company did win).
Photographing military installations and powerplants (especially nuclear installations) is also not allowed AFAIK (this does also mean no taking pictures at an angle skirting the border of the no-fly zone...).
I wish I were flying
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:15 am

I love these people nowadays. After 9/11 everything to do with planes is illegal.

LOL

don't listen to them
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:41 am

If you are flying at under 1000ft in a neighibor hood then you are breaking FARs (even before 9/11).
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:56 am

If a pilot, any pilot, is making any money from flying, then the MUST hold a commercial licence. If not, then at best you are illegal, at worst if there was an accident any insurance would be invalidated and you'd both be responsible for any liabilities.

I dont believe that has anything to do with taking pictures, that rule deals with taking passengers in exchange for compensation.

If you are flying at under 1000ft in a neighibor hood then you are breaking FARs (even before 9/11).

i was thinking the same thing...




chris
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:08 am

Chris, I believe you are right. But in the case at hand, the passenger is presumably paying the pilot to take him flying, while coincidentally, the passenger is taking pictures.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
PPGMD
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RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:23 am

Umm the commerical limitation is for almost any type of bussiness that can't be accomplished without an aircraft.

If he is getting paid period he has to have a CPL.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
dstc47
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

RE: Aerial Photography - Do Venice Soon!

Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:56 pm

The Mayor of Venice wants to trademark the image of Venice.

Dont know how this could be done but if you want an aerial photo of it do it soon! This issue of image rights is getting out of hand.

Then Venice has been taking about flooding for years and years.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:48 pm

correct PPGMD. CPL is required for any commercial use of the aircraft, ATPL for carrying paying passengers (unless you're an IP, in which case you can take a paying student).
I wish I were flying
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:57 pm

I think you are splitting hairs on much of this. If a friend takes me up, I shoot photos of an area and then I sell them is there a violation? maybe/maybe not. The point was, is taking photos from an airplane of stuff on the ground illegal in the U.S. The simple answer is NO.  Smile
 
PPGMD
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:19 am

If the entire reason to go up was to take pictures for profit then if the pilot doesn't have a CPL he is breaking FARs.

Also if they fly below 1,000ft they are also breaking FARs.

Taking the pictures themselves no they are not illegal if you sell them to the owner of the property. Sell them elsewhere then you might have some problems.

Certificate action is no laughing matter espically if the pilot wants to be a airline pilot.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:05 am

2912n

PPGMD is right. The original question was "is it illegal now" The answer is NO, it isn't illegal now (except maybe power stations, restricted areas etc), IF - and this is a huge IF - if it wasn't illegal before.

Flying around taking pictures is not illegal. However, if the photographer PAYS any money to the pilot, or if the photographer contributes any more than HALF the cost of running the airplane - rental, fuel, etc - then the whole thing was illegal before, and is now.

Not only is this a problem in terms of the pilot's future flying, but also as I said if there was an accident the consequences are significant.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Delta777-XXX
Topic Author
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:17 am

I think my pilot has his CPL, but I'm not 100% sure. I know he is a CFI and that when we go up I fly left seat and log all the time. He really only flys the airplane when I am actually clicking shots. I do pay him, but I think that if it ever is a problem, I could always say I was paying my flight instructor, because that is what I'm doing.

I still feel pretty sure that this guy has his CPL.

Hank
 
PPGMD
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:39 am

If its in the states and he has a CFI then he does also have a CPL.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
dan330
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:52 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:56 am

Skymonster - Can you just confirm something please, with a PPL I can charge half the cost of the flight to my passenger, that includes fuel, rental etc.
So as it costs £80 per hour to rent a 152 at EMFS thenI can charge £40 per hour to my passenger.
This is how I understood it from everything I've read, but I had some guy come in to work a fews days ago and say that you can only charge half the amount of fuel, he said about £8 per hour!

So, can you just confirm that I'm correct on this ones and hes full of s***.
 
PPGMD
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Aerial Photography Illegal?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:30 am

It may be diffrent in Europe under the CAA rules but here in the States it's a pro rata share of the direct costs of the flight.

*This part differs from inspector to inspector*
But the FAA has ruled that its the direct costs, so if you own the plane all you can charge is for fuel and tie down, you can't add in what it might have cost for maitnece.

Dan330: Correct under FAA rules (those are the ones that I know), but the rules say pro rata share, so that means for each passenger (you can have more of course in a C172 or larger plane), and for the time that they are onboard.

Also one thing you want to check out for those running commerical ops, if the pilot isn't a designated employee of the FBO, and you are not doing something that they have signed off on, then you might not be covered under their insurance as you would be in comes cases.

Basically that means I can't start flying passengers for hire to Key West, with a plane that I rent from my local FBO. Also that limitation is not only in the insuracen paper work, but it is also in some retal agreements.

Also one last note on what is considered commerical:
Commerical is only flight where the pilot gets some form the compenstation (direct or indirect), inexcharge for his flying services. If I am a repair man flying to fix washing machines and I use my own plane to get there that is not commerical. But if use Joe, my assistant as my pilot, he is recieveing some form of compenstation (I'm paying him I hope) then it is commerical, even though if you were flying yourself it would other wise not be.

Now remember ladies and gentlemen these are US rules that I am explaining and the interpetations vary among FSDOs. Please consult your local FSDO and an avation lawyer, before you begin any commerical flying operation.

This information is provided free of charge with no warrenty what so ever, implied or otherwise.

Had to put the CYA stuff on the bottem.
At worst, you screw up and die.

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