Sabena 690
Topic Author
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My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:21 pm

Guys,

Because the topic is locked (why?), I start another thread about the removal of my picture.

It is just in one word: ridiculous.

Badmotiv? I don't think so. I prefer shots like these, instead of the usual side shots.

Badpeople? For god sake, it is my sister!

What I want to say first: I look every day in the picture database. To all the new added pictures. And it happens at least one time each two weeks that I do not agree with an added picture. But do you know how I think? Congrats to the one who made the picture, but not 'let's start a topic to piss him off and to get the picture removed'.

It is a schame that the picture was removed! And once again (like always in this kind of topics), the photographers with the most pictures in the database are supporting the removal of the picture of someone else.

You guys are so frustrated in having the most pictures in the database, that other people don't count anymore. If you all would be in my situation, you would be happy that it was accepted. But no, let's spend our time in boycotting others.

In the past days, I got more than 15 mails of people who said that it was a great picture. I got one other mail which I want to share with you.

It was from Robin Banks (I hope you are a forum member):

dude i barely recognized your sister in the daylight.. tell her to check out
www.weightwatchers.com and then get a tan.

anyway, nice picture of the back of a tug... you're lucky you have a nice
camera, it's all you have going for you

RB


Well, is this the way that photographers and enthusiastics talk to eachother?

Taking pictures is still for the fun, uploading to airliners.net is a right, not an obligation.

You all need a life guys!!!

And the biggest dissapointment was that I even didn't get a mail of you Johan, that I had to hear it from someone else that my picture was removed.

I am highly highly dissapointed.

/Frederic
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:24 pm

I feel sorry for you Frederic... The pic shouldn't have been removed.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
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clickhappy
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:26 pm

I won't speak about the picture being removed, but don't let mean spirited people get you down. Most people in life are mean because they are jealous.

Don't let a couple of jerks ruin your airliners.net experience.
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:36 pm

I think Johan does not have time to respond....

There is one golden rule on this site:

Play it by Johan's rule or leave. Simple as that.

If he or any screeners does not like the picture, so be it. You have to live with it.

I can feel your anger and pain.......

I personally did not care about the picture at all. Now you can say that another photographer with lot's of pictures on this site is critizing you.

Well I am not!

I am sure you were proud to have the pic on this site and it made your day that is did accumlate quite a few hits!

But ask yourself this.....can't you do better than that?
This is not an attack just a simple question?

Let this one go and go out and capture some other images....with or w/o your sister in the picture!

Vasco G.

 
Turbotrent
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:43 pm

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:43 pm

Frederic, I couldn't agree with you more. When I first saw the shot, I thought : nice, A.net seems to accept more and more artistic photo's. And by the number of hits of the pic to see, a lot more people thought it was a nice pic. The pic even stood in the top 10 from 'most popular shots of the last 24 hours'! But then a couple of frustrated guys seemed to disagree with the majority and started a topic to delete the pic from the database for some stupid reasons like bad people. You guys must be very happy!! That's the way to go!! Lets attack other aviation enthusiasts, because it would be a disaster if someone's pic should get more hits then mine. I am really disappointed. It thought that we aviation enthusiasts would stick together a help each other, but clearly I am wrong. It is become a real competition here, and that's a real shame.

Greetz,

Tom
Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.
 
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apuneger
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:53 pm

Sabvena 690:

I was also surprised to see your picture got removed because of the thread that some ... started. I thought that over here, people would just share experiences with each other, give constructive criticism to each other's pictures, instead of trying to get other men's pictures removed from the database.

As far as I'm concerned, this once more shows us what Airliners.net is heading for. More and more people are getting frustrated that their shots or whatever don't get accepted (or frustrated for whatever reason), so they start ridiculous topics. Airliners.net isn't about aviation enthusiasts anymore nowadays apparently, it's just about those few people that are trying to control everything.

I mean, a couple of years ago, I was really happy with the way things were going over here, but some incidents have really bumped the way I feel about this website.

But, don't let that get you down: upload it to planepictures.net. I'm sure it'll get accepted! And within a week or so, this little incident 'll be forgotten, and you'll have maybe even more great pictures over here, who knows?

anyway, if some of you guys have nothing else to do but to check pictures (that were added after two or three screenings) for bad motives and so, well, then, ...euh...you know what I mean probably!

Ivan

PS: Johan gave a brief comment in the thread that was closed.
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:05 am

Thanks for the support guys.

@Turbotrent and Apuneger:
Nice posting you guys made! I couldn't express what I think better.

@Clickhappy:
Yes, this is one of the main problems, jealousy.

@AKE0404AR:

I think Johan does not have time to respond....

Removing a picture only happens a very few times each year, and is very important. Sending a mail is the least you can do.

If he or any screeners does not like the picture, so be it. You have to live with it.

Don't forget that 3 screeners voted for my picture. 3 screeners! And it passed, like Ivan correctly pointed out, 2 screenings. And now it is suddenly removed for badpeople and badmotiv? Something is not right here, be sure of that.

But ask yourself this.....can't you do better than that?
This is not an attack just a simple question?


I have not permission to the tarmac, unless if I take a flight. And when I am in a situation like I was when I boarded my flight, I always try to take some shots which are not like the usual shots.

I found it a very good picture: with the truck of AZ in front of the nose of the MD82 of AZ with both doors opened. I found it a good composition, and so found (some of) the screeners too (at least 3).

Regards,
Frederic














 
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apuneger
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:10 am

Well, according to me, it was a pictures that really showed some of the 'spirit' when you take a flight.

Most of the pictures over here show nothing but aircraft. But I think more pictures should get accepted giving us some thought how it feels like to fly. you know what I mean.

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Skymonster
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:14 am

Sabena 690 and Turbotrent,

You're reading far too much into this... I don't think anyone set out to get your picture removed. The debate started out with a question about how the pic got into the database despite it braking the rules - other people have had pics like that rejected, so why not yours? The debate ended with the removal of the picture. Nothing malicious, just a question about a picture that slipped through the net.

You have two choices now:
1. Forget about it and move on - judging by your other pics, you've got plenty to contribute
2. Take the issue up with the editor in chief directly

I would strongly recommend the former - a single picture just isn't worth getting so steamed up about.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
CactusA319
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:15 am


Jealousy? What are you kidding????

You're missing the point. It's not so much that you're shot was bad (it could have been composed better, like for instance not blocking out part of the plane with the tug, but the idea is creative), it's that there are other shots, artistic and otherwise, that get rejected here while others that aren't up to the standards or break the rules seem to find their way on here. Not to say you're pic was low quality but the point is that if something like your pic made it, why do other pics that are arguably better shots continualy get rejected? It's not an attack on you nor is it "jealousy" but rather a call for some kind consistency in the screening. I mean there's quite a few pics on here that leave me scratching my head sometimes as to why they were accepted. And then there are rejections that make you wonder too. I know the screeners are human and have a buttload of pics to go through and they do it for the love of the hobby, but come on now!

 
administrator
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:23 am

It was unfortunate that the photo was added in the first place, as you might know such photos are not accepted at Airliners.net. We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

The thread that was started had nothing to do with it. Those of you that's been around for a while know I put little value in such posts. I noticed the photo early and kept it in the database around a day so that the screeners could have a look and learn from it.

It is again very unfortunate when photos have to be removed from the database and it happens very rarely. I apologize to the photographer and will work together with the screeners to ensure that our procedures for handling these situations improve.

I know some of you would rather see such photos added to the database but it's not Airliners.net material. I'm sure there's other sites out there with different criteria where the photo could be added.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
fuairliner
Posts: 530
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:36 am

Can somebody please enlighten me which rules were violated by this picture?

Frederic clearly stated that the woman is his sister and that he has permission to publish it on the internet. So a rejection for "badperson" is not possible.

The other possible rejection reason that was discussed was "badaesthetics". I don't think it is possible to write down rules stating what should be considered as artistic and what should be rejected, so the fate of the picture depends on the screeners' point of views. In this case three screeners considered Frederic's picture as artistic and consequently it was added to the database.

The deletion of the picture by Johan was very surprising for me as there are many other pictures in the database that are far more questionable...

Another fact I noticed in the recent screening discussions: some people think that lower quality standards are applied on artistic shots than on "regular" ones. This is not the case.


Frank
Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
 
schreiner
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:42 am

Is the pic somewhere? I havent seen it. Been on holiday sometime.

Cheers,
Schreiner

Soaring the internet...
 
Turbotrent
Posts: 146
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:43 am

Johan, thanks for your posting. Ok, if that's the way you feel about the pic, then it's your good right to delete it. I respect that. But that's not my point. What really pisses me off is that some people here have no respect for each other. IMO it is not done to start a topic about someone else's photo, and especially not when they say : this picture have to be deleted. And Johan, would you also have this picture deleted when there was no topic about it?
There have been numerous topics about :'this picture is not level' and indeed they weren't, I'm curious to see if those pics are going to be deleted...

Greetz,

Tom
Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:21 am

Johan, one question: why do you accept Sint Maarten pictures? Did you get permission of all the persons and naked women in the picture? Those St Maarten shots are artistic, but are not removed.

Maybe you can start a topic about Sint Maarten pictures, B-OTCH  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic

@Skymonster:
Take the issue up with the editor in chief directly

I sent Johan a mail about this. But I also wanted to discuss this with the people of the previous topic who stated that they wanted a deletion (what also has nothing to do with the original question).

@CactusA319:
It's not so much that you're shot was bad (it could have been composed better, like for instance not blocking out part of the plane with the tug

This is always easy to say if you have the Carabinieri running after you by saying that taking pictures is prohibited. And btw: how could I have composed it in another way? Thanks for additional advice.

otherwise, that get rejected here while others that aren't up to the standards or break the rules seem to find their way on here. Not to say you're pic was low quality but the point is that if something like your pic made it, why do other pics that are arguably better shots continualy get rejected?

Why did my picture get 3 screeners votes, and the others not?

I mean there's quite a few pics on here that leave me scratching my head sometimes as to why they were accepted.

I totally agree. But out of respect for the photographer, I don't start topics than, and I would never ask for a deletion.

@Administrator:

It was unfortunate that the photo was added in the first place, as you might know such photos are not accepted at Airliners.net. We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

This makes me laugh. Firstly: it got 3 screenersvotes. Secondly: maybe it is time for some variation in the database pictures? But this is only a personal opinion. I know, it is your site, but a little bit variation is always nice.

Those of you that's been around for a while know I put little value in such posts.

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you enlighten yourself a bit here please?

I apologize to the photographer and will work together with the screeners to ensure that our procedures for handling these situations improve.

As far as I know, you are the only one who can remove pictures, right? Well, if you would have been in the place of the photographer, would you appreciate it that you have to read in a mail of a friend that your picture is removed, and not in a mail of the one who removed it?

@FUAairliner:
Thanks mate. This is how I think too about this.

@Schreiner:
No, the picture is nowhere else online. A.net always got priority when I uploaded my pictures, so I did not upload it somewhere else yet.

@Turbotrent:
Thanks again for sharing your interesting point of view with us.

Regards,
Frederic
 
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Scooter
Posts: 837
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:29 am

Johan (Administrator) wrote:
We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

Huh? But, according to recent uploads, this place must be a hot air ballon and civil aircraft database though. I thought this was airliners.net - that Alitalia shot had more right to be here than any hot air balloon.

This is why I will soon give all my uploads to the "other" site...
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing trip reports.
 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:51 am

OK, apparently you haven't read my other posts, but let me repeat myself...

You are taking this too personally. Let it go. You have to have thick skin to upload here. You win some, you lose some. No one is jealous, no one is out to get you.

Your photo is 80% plane and 20% tug. That's just a fact.

Mistakes were made all around, and I agree with Johan, it shouldn't have gotten this far. I applaud Andy for owning up to this. This is how improvements are made.

I just looked through a bunch of SXM "over the beach" shots. Don't see any planes blocked by tugs.  Big grin
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:55 am

You have to have thick skin to upload here

Because of some people you have to, indeed.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:58 am

B-OTCH, I am talking about all who asked for deletion.

And about the SXM pictures: so airliners.net is not a people database and a car database, but well a place for women with naked breast?

With what are we spending our time...

/Frederic
 
B-OTCH
Posts: 137
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:12 am

CORRECTION: What I meant to say in my last post was 80% TUG and 20% PLANE. See, I makes 'em with the mistakes as for me. (Actually I just woke up)  Big thumbs up

IMHO, we need MORE photos of naked breasts on here!

Seriously though, I've said everything I have to say...Whats done is done, lets move on...
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:23 am

Sabena 690>>

DUDE!! get a life!! Face the fact that your picture belongs on "www.tugsandsisters.net" not "airliners.net"

Between you and me, let's break this down: how many hours have you spent boiling over this forum in the last two days? how many hours to write those huge posts your making? 2 hours? 3 hours?? 4, maybe 5 hours? 6 hours?? What could you be doing in that time? mowing the grass? doing the laundry? getting off your ass and going out with friends to pick up chicks and be a normal 16-20 year old kid?

seriously dude, there's more to life than this.

B-OTCH, I am talking about all who asked for deletion.

i dont remember anyone asking for deletion, i think everyone just wants to keep the screeners in check. yeah, they have a tough job, but critisism is part of it and if they are the supreme authority when it comes to critisism then they are mature enough to take it when it comes their way. (i think they ARE very mature about it too, my humble compliments)

Quite frankly, it just happend to be your picture.

simple as that

get over it.




Now, in regards to the SXM pictures-- find me an SXM picture with a tug that takes up 80% of the frame and i'll agree it shouldnt be added.

About my boy's SXM pic w/ the topless chick, you can hardly see her!! it adds a setting to the photo, it does not complete or make the entire scene in and of itself.

NO ONE IS BASHING YOUR PICTURE, and i can tell you for DAMN SURE THAT NO ONE is jealous of you. quite honestly your arrogance is pissing me off when at first i felt bad that you were put on the spot so much, now i dont care.

it builds character.

tell your sister i said hi



chris



 
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apuneger
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:32 am

OK guys, everybody has made his point. This thread is going nowhere, as are most threads like this one.

I think it's time to chill. It is obviously clear that some people are at their boiling point...why don't we all have a break, go out and just watch aircraft flying over our head, huh? After all, that's the only thing we have in common: our passion for aviation!

Ivan

PS: thanks for Johan for making his point clear over here!
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
gerardo
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 3:05 am

Just to start with: I never understood, why this pic had made it into the database. It wasn't in no way artistic or whatever else. I once spent a few hours with Chris at ZRH and now know, whyt it takes to get some artistic shots  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Remember, Chris?

But ok, there are many pics, which I can't understand, why they are in the database, and I'm sure, many people will look at some of mine and think the same.

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
schreiner
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:50 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 3:09 am

If you email it, I can make it online... and post it here. I would be pleased.
Soaring the internet...
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:24 am

Agree with Johan 100%.

-Dmitry
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:46 am

Can somebody please enlighten me which rules were violated by this picture?

The tug blocked most of the aircrafts view (and the ramp lice too). I was joking with another buddy of mine about a pic with a person in it and saying "the sick thing is it's only getting those hits because all those weirdos want to know what you look like". It's true, too. People didn't care about the plane, they want to see your sister haha. Nobody asked for deletion of your photo, the screeners made a mistake and realized it after it was uploaded (and it should not have been added in the first place, I've also had a photo removed after it was accepted...this was 2 years ago though). Some people on here get a bit steamed (myself included) about unfair rejections. After several "why was this rejected" posts, then seeing your pic make it in the DB probably confused/ticked-off some of us. Nothing wrong with the pic, it was artsy, but not up to a.net standards.

What does SXM have to do with this now? There are topless chicks all over the place, that's just part of the surrounding. Now if it was 80% breasts and 20% plane....well that's just not a good example, but you know what I mean..  Big grin
 
Danny
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:05 am

Frederic, You have my solidarity! It is a shame that some people call for removal of the picture because they don't like it.  Pissed

Johan, what about all the hundreds of peopole that opened the pic? The don't mean nothing?
 
mirage
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:08 am

It's hard to explain something to someone who doesn't wants to understand. If you at least could make an effort to see there's no logic for that photo to be here instead of asking for hugs and people crying for you, now that could be taken as a serious attitude.
But no, you prefer the attitude of the persecuted, bad choice.

Luis
P.S. What amazes me more is to see old forum members with the opinion that the photo was Airliners.net stuff, that is out of my comprehension.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:19 am

Mirage, I could list here easily 30 photos from the lasy month that we would find reasons for rejection. Does it mean I should do it and call for removal?

I don't think so.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3713
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:29 am

I personally liked the photo and it is certainly the type of photo that I would have shot had the opportunity presented itself. I do feel that the removal of the photo 'after the fact' was a poor call on the part of the administrators. Frankly had it not met up to A.Net's standards and rules it should have been kicked back at the initial screening. I too would be rather angry had this happened to one of my photos. That said 4 years of uploading images to this site has taught me a few lessons and one is not to upload images where faces are clearly visible regardless if you have permission and or a model release or the individual overpowers the aircraft

There is an aviation photo site that is much more open to 'creative photography' you may or may not be familiar with this site, if not please contact me. My e-mail is in my profile.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:40 am

"Mirage, I could list here easily 30 photos from the lasy month that we would find reasons for rejection. Does it mean I should do it and call for removal?

I don't think so."

I agree Danny, but since this photo was brought to attention I gave my opinion regardless the photographer name. It could have been ANY photographer but my opinion would be the same about this photo.

Luis
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:54 am

It's hard to explain something to someone who doesn't wants to understand. If you at least could make an effort to see there's no logic for that photo to be here instead of asking for hugs and people crying for you, now that could be taken as a serious attitude.
But no, you prefer the attitude of the persecuted, bad choice.



Mirage, Luis, dude, you totally nailed this one! 110% correct and i, as apparent by earlier posts, could not have said it better myself. Although perhaps overly negative  Wink/being sarcastic and less than affable sometimes, i thought you should be reminded that i respect your intelligence very much.

chris




 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:02 am


No one actually ASKED to have the picture removed. And there have been times when the quality of a picture and the reason for it being here has been questioned on the forums, but that had never caused the photo to be taken off. If some of you guys quit acting like vicitims you'd see what the deal is. Why did the pic have so many hits if it wasn't a.net material? Well if you read the remark line saying how that was his sister boarding the plane and asking "what do you think of her?" wouldn't you click on the picture to see what it was about? Especially considering the fact that the majority of viewers on this site are male? Hell even I opened it! Take the girl out of the picture that would have been a ton less hits and who knows if the pic would have even made it in the first place.

But let me play devil's advocate for a second here. If the photo in question should not have been in the DB, what do you say about this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Fullworth



Not necesarily saying it shouldn't be in the DB but the center of attention in the pic is the VW bug and not the F100. Wouldn't the same logic apply?



 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:03 am

I'd love to see those 30 photos, and yes, I do have the time.

It is a shame that some people call for removal of the picture because they don't like it.

Um no, you really missed the point here. Nobody said "I don't like it, it should be removed". Geez...  Insane
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 4:26 am

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:09 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Fullworth



Hmmm... actually that VW might be an aircraft.... it has a rudder, and wings, it's even chocked... although small, perhaps the lift factor is great, it's hard to tell..

fascinating... at least the fokker takes up a minimal 50% of the photo, instead of 20% as did the photo in question originally.

cheers

chris
 
jwenting
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:23 pm

Just to play devil's advocate with some pictures from St Maarten that would have been rejected for "aircraft too far in the distance", "people in the picture" or "not centered" if taken almost anywhere else.
No bad thoughts about these (I like them, and pictures like this, more than standard sideshots), just to clarify the point someone else made.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner


Is that topless woman indeed barely visible, Chris? If so, you need a larger screen or some very strong glasses  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner


I've had an almost identical composition to this rejected for badmotiv, taken at AMS:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Weldy
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy Bowland



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Justin Cederholm - Orlando/Tampa Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Rinaldi Jr.



Again, I like this kind of picture, but why are they accepted if taken in one place but not if taken somewhere else?
I wish I were flying
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:40 pm

Jwenting,

some pictures from St Maarten that would have been rejected if taken almost anywhere else

But that's exactly the point... They're not taken anywhere else. And before you start accusing the site of being biased towards certain airports, or biased towards expensive destinations, its not - we reject pics from SXM if the quality is bad.

However, all of the pictures you've highlighted exhibit some artistic merit over and above just the airplane itself and that's why they're on the database - the scene contributes rather than detracts from the overall image. Which ever way you cut it, the St Maarten beach is somewhat more appealing than a photo of an airline decending over the local rubbish dump on a dull day at some grotty European airport.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ebos
Posts: 448
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:56 pm

JTwenting

What's the point?
Do you want these ones rejected for 'aircraft to far in the distance' or 'not centered'?...


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 Nuts
An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:06 pm

I think SXM pictures are still special, they take up a small percentage of the whole a.net database.

I am pretty certain if pictures from SXM become a rather "everyday occurance" here at a.net, higher nit picking standards would be applied as well.

Let me put it this way, even though the a/c may be too far in the distance, SXM pictures are all about composition.

Light, water, beach, possibly even topless woman standing at the right hand corner of the pictures......this is what the visitors to airliners.net want to see!

However I do agree that some of the above shown pictures probably would fall under the category bad motive or bad centered!

Still the sunset approach is a stunner!

Back to the original topic!

Frederic, I know how you feel but it is not worth it to cry over spilled milk.
I know that you are pissed off, but topics like this don't help.

I remember a couple of years back when I first uploaded to a.net.
Even back then we had to deal with rejections.....I was a newbie back then and it seems that some of the forum members did not agree with my work.

dated May 29th 2000
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/1100/

I was proud like a little boy who got his new toy about my pictures and thought they were the best in the entire world! I tend to exagerate a litlle from time to time...

Anyway what I am trying to say is, it is a personal thing, but don't let them get to you.

In a couple of months from now, if you have more than hundreds of pictures on this site, you will forget about this one!

Trust me!
Let this one go and move on!

Vasco Garcia
 
administrator
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:13 pm

As always, these discussions turn into valueless drivel and I'm forced to repeat myself over and over.

>Johan, one question: why do you accept Sint Maarten pictures?
>Did you get permission of all the persons and naked women in
>the picture?

Because they are in my mind interesting photos that have a place on Airliners.net. It comes down to that. What a "good" photo looks like is subjective - there's no one truth. I, and my extended arm in form of screeners I've trained, have setup the acceptance levels for photos on Airliners.net. When it comes to artistic photos and other un-categorizable stuff, it's judged on a case to case basis. It can not function properly in any other way and I've said that over and over. If we were to take into consideration what the photographer of each photo thinks of his photo every shot uploaded would be added. Surly no one is uploading photos they don't think deserve to be added?

As for the "badperson" rejection. It stats among other things that we prefer to not have people in the shot due to the (admittedly vague) legal issues involved. If you choose to disregard that, fine, if it's a great shot and the person adds something positive to the photo (something positive in my view - not yours!), we might take our chances and add the photo.

>The deletion of the picture by Johan was very surprising for me as
>there are many other pictures in the database that are far more
>questionable...

That's your view Frank and you're entitled to it but don't come here and pretend it's the objective truth cause it isn't. There's no such thing. You can start your own database with nothing but cars and girls in it if you don't like the standards we have here.

I understand that the rejections can seem strange at times, the standards we apply are becoming quite complicated! I recently heard from a photographer who didn't know that we have lower rejection levels for rare aircraft (like registrations we don't have in the database) - if you don't know that I fully understand the rejections can seem strange at times! Read the text on the upload pages, FAQ and rejection letters, it's all in there and it will make you understand why one photo is rejected while there's a similar (but in your opinion crappier) photo already in the database. I cannot keep having to write these messages here every time someone has a photo rejected - I'm going crazy!

>Firstly: it got 3 screenersvotes.

Yeah, that surprised me as well. We're fixing the screening scripts so that this hopefully does not happen again.

>Secondly: maybe it is time for some variation in the database pictures?

That's up to us. Please send in your "variation" photos and we'd be happy to have a look at them. Some of the best photos on Airliners.net are very unusual. But for every such "artistic" shot accepted, 10 are rejected. Bear that in mind and don't lash out on us when we don't accept your photo. It's (have you heard this before) a subjective matter after all.

>I don't understand what you mean here. Can you enlighten
>yourself a bit here please?

The rejection levels on Airliners.net is set by me and in some degree the screeners. Not by some post in a forum. The poster happened to be right this time though.

>Huh? But, according to recent uploads, this place must be a
>hot air ballon and civil aircraft database though.

That is correct. Hot air balloons and military aircraft have a home here as well. The photo of the Alitalia aircraft obviously didn't as it was removed.

>And about the SXM pictures: so airliners.net is not a people database
>and a car database, but well a place for women with naked breast?

If it meets our criteria there can be hundreds of woman with naked breast or thousands of cars. You fail to see the point here. If the photo meets our criteria it will be added. If not, it will be rejected. It's very simple really. Photo quality is a subjective matter and there's no way we can setup rules that says "If a photo contains 3 breast or more it will be rejected. Otherwise it will be accepted". Surly you must understand that?

>Johan, what about all the hundreds of peopole that opened the pic?
>The don't mean nothing?

That is incorrect. They do mean nothing.

>do feel that the removal of the photo 'after the fact' was a poor call

Again I am very sorry I were forced to do that and hope I won't have to in the future.

>There is an aviation photo site that is much more open to 'creative
>photography' you may or may not be familiar with this site, if not please
>contact me. My e-mail is in my profile.

There are many other sites that have very different criteria. I'm sure people know about them and I'd be thankful if you didn't advertise them here. You know the rules and this "email me" is poor taste. I refuse to have these high quality discussion forums turned into advertising space (unless I get paid a lot for it).

>Not necesarily saying it shouldn't be in the DB but the center of attention
>in the pic is the VW bug and not the F100. Wouldn't the same logic apply?

Apparently not. It's added and remaining. It was added some time ago but I think it's a cool shot although the fact that half the F100 is hidden makes it a border case. If it wasn't for the poor photo quality I would have added it if it was uploaded today.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
fuairliner
Posts: 530
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:06 am

"That's your view Frank and you're entitled to it but don't come here and pretend it's the objective truth cause it isn't. There's no such thing. You can start your own database with nothing but cars and girls in it if you don't like the standards we have here."

Just to make myself clear: I don't think the picture by Frederic should have been added to the database, but since three screeners had another view it got added. I was surprised about the deletion because in my opinion there are some other pictures in the database that clearly should have been rejected. In the past I had the impression that the only reason for deleting pictures were copyright violations, but not because of quality or aethetic reasons, even if they were discussed in this forum.

I completely agree to the standards you have set up and I don't complain about them at all.


Frank
Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:34 am

EBOS, you obviously didn't get it.
I pulled those pictures as examples of things that should have been rejected if the standards were indeed applied equally everywhere. I think such pictures are great, they add atmosphere and show not just the aircraft but the environment in which it operates.

There are enough standard sideshots, different ideas should be encouraged but that isn't really happening (either by policy or because the screeners are afraid to take such decisions).
I wish I were flying
 
mirage
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:57 am

What's your point Joge?

Airliners.net is one website and Justplanes is another completely different website, each one with different concepts, why that comparison?

Luis
P.S. Thanks Chris
 
Joge
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:25 am

Never mind, Luis.

My point was, it's not just black and white, there are also those grey areas.  Big grin

I just wonder, if that photo would have been left to the DB in case the person on the photo looked elsewhere and there hadn't been any mention about that person beeing the photographer's sister...  Confused

-Joge
Bula!
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:31 am

ah! yes that winner photo was very grey.

I must convince some girls here to pose for me in front of some aircraft engine. But then it would not be an aviation photo, well nevermind  Smile

Luis
 
chris28_17
Posts: 1372
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 5:59 am

As i mentioned in the other post (or was it this one? i forget) that justplanes contest was a joke. That picture never should have won.

oh well


chris
 
Danny
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:47 pm

A celebrities photo website? Big grin

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apuneger
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 6:07 pm

OK, but that last pictures should've been on www.girlonbeachinbikinistaringatanaircraftonfinals.net instead of www.airliners.net  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Flyer732
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:31 pm

The SXM pic in question is completly different than the AZ picture though.
The girl is not blocking any portion of the aircraft, the entire aircraft is pictured. AND you cannot see her face, thus she is not distinguishable.
 
ake0404ar
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RE: My Removed AZ Picture

Wed Aug 07, 2002 8:45 pm

Ryan,

come on dude.....just be real!
Even though it is SXM, the plane is hardly visible in the top right corner.........

You cannot see her face, but her butt

Have to agree with Ivan on that one!

Vasco G.

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