jhooper
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This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:03 am


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Photo © Jay Piboontum



Raising the gear just as the cloud tops are cleared?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:06 am

Those are low clouds.

Je89
 
desertjets
Posts: 7575
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:16 am

Looks like Photoshop 101, introduction to inspirational photos.

The caption should read: Learn to rise above the clouds and soar... something like that.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
CMK10
Posts: 1826
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:18 am

Its not even funny how fake that picture looks.
DC-10's Forever
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:26 am

Might I suggest that there was lowish cloud in the distance, and what you are seeing is actually the 'front' of that cloud, not the top. I have seen similar cloud formations at Auckland - it makes for a really spectacular photo when the light is at the right angle to it - lots of oranges and yellows in the clouds, it really is something.

I must say it never ceases to amaze me how whenever someone loads a halfway spectacular photo, people cry out "fake". Grow up kiddies.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
fly_emirates
Posts: 970
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:29 am

may i suggest that the picture may not be fake! i was watching a pakistan airways A310 taking off, and it kept climbing for a while while i was watching with binoculars with the gear still down.
 
Tbird
Posts: 801
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:37 am

Greetings:

It certainly is an interesting photo. You can see the reflection of the runway on the belly of the plane. I to have my doubts about this photo the lighting doesn't even look that even.

Regards
Tom
 
TWFirst
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RE: VirginFlyer

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:43 am

If it's not fake, then please explain how the picture was taken... You're telling me the photographer was magically hovering above the clouds over LAX, and was able to perfectly capture a crystal-clear image of a Delta 764 just after it broke through the cloud cover???....


Get real.  Insane


There are so many things I can point out that are incorrect in this picture, it's not even funny... the very least of which is the mismatch in the direction of the lighting source between the clouds and plane. Also, look at the reflection on the polished underbody of the bird... um, gee, see any clouds reflected there??? Looks like the striping from the runway if you ask me.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
TWFirst
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:44 am

Tbird was posting as I was posting my message. Looks like someone else agrees with me as well.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:03 am

I have looked at this picture for many minutes trying to find a defense for Jay. I can't. It's too clear for a telephoto picture through a cabin window of another aircraft, the clouds are to close to explain a front and I know of no structure near LAX high enough to get an aircraft emerging from a fog bank. I sadly must say that I also find the picture suspicious.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:04 am

I think this plane has never really climbed above the clouds. The ones you see are very distant, and the plane is just some feet off the ground, in the right angle to make it look like it's over them....
 
zebfly2
Posts: 406
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:26 am

Here are some more pics at the same angle. Any comments?


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum

Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
 
jfs9900
Posts: 7
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:31 am

Look at some other photos from Jay and you will see simmiar looking photographs. http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?photographersearch=Jay%20Piboontum

One example:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum

 
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VirginFlyer
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TWFirst

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:42 am

TWFirst - please read my message: Might I suggest that there was lowish cloud in the distance, and what you are seeing is actually the 'front' of that cloud, not the top.

Let me try and say it again - the aircraft is in the foreground, the cloud is in the background. Those aren't the tops of the clouds you are seeing, it is the front of it. Of course the aircraft isnt above the clouds - it is probably no more than a few hundred feet (if that) above ground level. Which, from the viewers eye, would place it higher in the sky than distant clouds on the horizon. This discussion has been had many times before, with the same conclusion - telephotos lenses make the background appear very close to the foreground, when this isn't really the case. We had this with the runway photos (people thought the aircraft was raising its gear the as it was still on the runway - it was of course the parallel runway they were seeing) and with aircraft close to buildings (the buildings weren't that close at all - it was simply an effect of the telephoto lens).

I would suggest that the Air France and American Airlines shots show the same cloud formation, when it was close to the airport - so either earlier in the day if it was receding, or later in the day if it was approaching - judging by the light I would guess later in the day. Does anyone have weather conditions from LAX on September 1?

Now, if someone wants to point out something that is blatantly wrong, go for it, and then perhaps I'll change my mind. But from what I have seen so far, it is simply a very luckily composed shot.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
zebfly2
Posts: 406
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:46 am

If you look at the comments on the KAL MD-11 pic, it explains it all. What you see are not clouds but smoke from the forest fires in CA. You guys need to lighten up when you start passing judgement on someone's work of art! This same thing happened with Tom Turner's BA 747-400 pic when it's authencity was questioned in the photography forum.
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Photo © Tom Turner

Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 12:28 pm

I thought Airliners.net didnt accept "Fake" Photos ....if they do i will have a heap up on airliners.net in a few days  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

nzjet100
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 12:31 pm

Oh and all the pics above a clearly FAKE!
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 12:34 pm

Bigo747, what makes you think they are fake? Looks geniune.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:04 pm

I'd have to agree in saying that these photos are genuine.

Yes, these are the smoke clouds from the forest fires in CA, which means they're very close to the ground.

Not a fake at all.
 
AirNikon
Posts: 172
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:20 pm

I was also out at LAX the afternoon of 01SEP and I can attest that the background DID in fact look like that. To the N-NE there were TCUs that had been growing over the mountains for hours. In addition to that, there were in fact several large forest fires burning in the distance, with most of the (low) smoke N-NW closer to the horizon.

When you add these backdrops to the supposition that these shots were taken from "the hill" south of Imperial Hwy, the answer is genuine.

Finally, regarding color, there were no clouds in the sky over the ocean last Sunday afternoon and we had a spectacular sunset. The photographer obviously stayed later in the afternoon than I did, which explains the colorful highlights in the clouds.

Were you there? Probably not.

I, was...
Don't get married, don't have kids, and you will have more money than you know what to do with...
 
Flyer732
Posts: 1321
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 2:52 pm

The pictures are NOT fake. I was out in LA last week and saw the same sort of clouds/sky. I did some shooting with Jay and a few others on 31Aug and I saw the results on the camera right after the image was taken...

~Ryan
 
Glenn
Posts: 1454
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 3:18 pm

For GODS sake, will you IDIOTS come to grips with Angles and Perspective. Why are you guys let loose with an Internet account.
 
Glenn
Posts: 1454
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 3:33 pm

To give you all an idea, I have a shot in the database which I clearly marked as an air to air shot. It is not. And to this day no one has ever queried it. I was on the ground.

the photo in question is
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Photo © Glenn Alderton



I put it in there long ago to prove a point to another photographer that you can con people with Perspectives. (I might add before you start calling them all fakes, this is the only one) I had forgotten about it till this thread appeared so I will amend that before I get a whole bunch of hate mail
So tell me how this can't be done while standing on the ground again !
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 pm

You know what I find amusing .. all these armchair experts that think they know everything when so clearly they don't.

What is really FAKE is the photographic interpretation skills of some of the posters above.  Big grin





VH-ADG



 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:14 pm

Here's a recommendation to A.net Admin.

If someone claims to have sniffed out a "fake" photo with little or no persuasive argument... and they are later proven wrong—should be DELETED. Plain and simple. There needs to be some deterrant. This is getting ridiculous and soon good shooters will simply leave instead of feeling compelled to defend their work. It's a mild form of character assassination and should not be tolerated.

Rooting out the authenticity of copyright is one thing. This is something quite different.

Getting images in this database is hard enough without having to endure the squawkings of armchair photo editors.

Go out and learn to be a better photographer.
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:39 pm

Those who have been on this site long enough will remember the issue with Lawrence Feir and his photographs. Guess it makes little men feel big to be putting others down!

I agree with it being a reason for deletion from the forums.





VH-ADG
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 5:46 pm

Hey Exitrow, I agree with you on this one now. Since I don't post that type of threads from now on! But, I think there can be an interesting and healthy discussion. We can listen to each others opinions, but no need to point fingers at anyone, I am not talking about you, just some other users.

I think everyone learns from mistakes and not wise comments, at least I do, and have been for the last 8-9 months.

You have to be young and stupid before old and wise. Works same for photography.

From my perspective the shot is 100% no fake. But again just my humble opinion.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Dmitry
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 5:53 pm

ADG, who was Lawrence Feir? I took a look at his shots, very nice and awesome ones uploaded! Can you update a newbie like me (been in the photography forum for about 8 months) on what happened to him and why he isn't uploading anymore? Sure appreciate it.

Thanks!

-Dmitry
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:04 pm

-
 
tpk
Posts: 188
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:17 pm

I have to say that I find this entire discussion amusing as I was standing next to Jay taking photos on September 1 for almost the whole day. All of the shots are REAL and were taken from Imperial Hill to the south of LAX in El Segundo. The reason why the clouds are like that is, as Jay pointed out, a large forest fire was burning in the Angeles National Forest to the east of the airport. None of the planes were more than a few hundred feet off of the ground. Here's an article from the LA Times that explains the fire:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/index.html?ts=1031475788

For those of you who still don't believe it, have a look at this photo from the same day. Maybe he's working with Jay to create fake photos that corroborate each other.


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Photo © Paul Paulsen



Seriously though, relax and enjoy the photos.

Tim
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:17 pm

Thank-You Peter! You sure know how to dig up ancient threads!  Big thumbs up

-Dmitry
 
PRM
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 12:17 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:25 pm

So ancient it must be all of one week old....  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:53 pm

Being deleted for just suggesting a pic MAY be fake isn't really fair especially when those who do the accusing are not being aggresive about it. but merely enquiring.It's even a good way to learn about different types of angles etc(ie How did he/she get this shot?It looks almost fake!)But what should we do about people on here who do sniff out the fakes(there have been a few here)?Should they be deleted too?
 
sdjminton
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 10:17 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:03 pm

As already mentioned...if you have an issue with a photograph how about contacting the photographer directly rather than dragging their good name through the mud in public?

Steve.
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4968
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:38 pm

It's amazing, everyone that is screaming out "fake" doesn't even have photos on here.
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:53 pm

Justin, you took the words out of my mouth. Really a shame I wasn't here for this discussion....

Wietse

PS IT IS REAL
Wietse de Graaf
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:49 pm

Jhooper, TWFirst, T-Bird, Desert Jets,

GET A LIFE......these pics are the real deal!! If you guys have a problem with Jay's pics then have the balls to shoot him an e-mail and ask him about the photos in question.

Man, I am getting awfully tired of all these folks who feel the need to knock someone's hard work on these forums when they can't figure out how a picture was taken.


Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
vir380
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:45 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:21 pm

Sorry ........ it just isnt right ! has to be fake (backdrop added onto existing image )

cheers Tony
Moved away from this lost website to better things !
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:36 pm

Hi All,

Here is another example that this picture is real and not fake.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rafal Szczypek



hehehe It was taken with D100  Smile Quality speaks for itself.

Rafal  Smile
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
zebfly2
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 11:44 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:48 pm

Hey Tony, GET A LIFE MAN!!! Here's another pic at the same angle:


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Photo © Jay Piboontum

Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
 
vir380
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:45 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:03 am

Chill ........ why is everyone gettin so nowty ???

i have a life thanks !! , LOOK at the image at the start of the thread NO others study it and think !!!.... the image to me looks all wrong (i do apolagise if im wrong )

pay attention the the whole image .... the cloud or smoke looks all wrong , look how flat the top of the cloud is.... it would be or should be totally uneven ... the image at the START of the thread looks as though its just come thrugh the cloud at 20000 feet or whatever , to me it just doesnt look right..

Tony
Moved away from this lost website to better things !
 
alphazulu
Crew
Posts: 258
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RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:36 am

Ok Guys, I know the controversy is now over but let me put my two cents in. I was shooting with Jay and Tim from about 12 noon until 7:30p that day and can assure you that those clouds formations were REAL. For summer here in LA it was a pretty rare occasion to get a clear day along with a spectacular build up over the mountains, almost once in a lifetime situation. If you look at the one shot I have posted of that day ( more to come later  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Paulsen

and read the remarks, it gives a explanation of how those clouds got there.
Now, just a few words about Jay. I had the pleasure of meeting him and three other A. Net contributors (Timothy Keeney, Brian Stevenson, and Ryan Gaddis) last weekend. Each one of them has the passion that probably you and me feel for taking pictures of jetliners. Just from spending the day with Jay I learned how knowledgeable he was about photography, that wisdom probably came from his heavy film background.
I know for a fact that in this shot
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Photo © Jay Piboontum

he was using a polarizing filter which gives it a unique look.

In conclusion guys, Let's recognize talent, for talent sake. This photographer (Jay) got some pretty spectacular shots due to his knowledge of photography and maybe a little help from mother nature, nothing else!!! So, Let's recognize his talent and congratulate him on a job well done!!

Paul
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:50 am

Guys, those photos are "as real as they get"!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Dmitry
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:10 am

The thing that gets me about the Photoshop "Chicken Littles" is that:

a.) They don't contact the photographer first.

b.) They have not proven that they are qualified to critique ANYTHING. It's as if I were to tell a gallery painter that he's mixing his paints all wrong or that he's copying Picasso. I am not a painter. So I shut up and try to learn more about it before levying ANY kind of criticism.

c.) Their allegations are akin to calling a photographer a CHEATER.

d.) And worse yet, they call them a cheater in a public forum before getting the accused side of the story FIRST.

Being deleted for just suggesting a pic MAY be fake isn't really fair especially when those who do the accusing are not being aggresive about it.

I beg to differ. Why can't they instead write something along the lines of, "Wow. Great shot, how did you get the clouds to look like that?" And do so in a PRIVATE e-mail first. Let's be honest here, this is about smart-ass know-it-alls trying to rile something up for the sake of argument. If the real risk of being deleted for false accusations loom, frivilous accusations will be reduced to ZERO. And that sounds good to me.

And to those who claim I, and others like me, are getting "too worked up" or should "relax" I say this: Piss off. You've obviously never had to make a living as a photographer or related career. Take your smug criticism elsewhere. You are NOT adding to the community.

 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:13 am

William, hopefully these guys will return to the non aviation forum where they belong.

Luis
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:25 am

I'd have to say that the photos are real. I was onboard a continental 757 a couple summers ago, taking off to the west, and as soon as we were airborne we were inside one of those clouds, and popped out the top seconds later to reveal a crystal blue sky above the white cloud layer. The flaps had not even been retracted yet.

Los Angeles does get that kind of weather from time to time. At just the right time it can make for some great photos, provided you can get to a hill so you can see above the low, low clouds.


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:41 am

Might it be the time to point out to the armchair experts that accusing a photographer of taking a fake photograph may constitute libel or slander in some countries. This is a civil matter that could be pursued through the law courts.

While you may think you are anonymous, it's quite a simple trick to track down internet users in order to drag them into the law courts, it's also quite expensive if you have to defend yourself in a foreign country.

The internet is a huge forum and this site has thousands of readers, indeed the intrernet itself has millions of readers, the potential for damages is quite high.

So guys, you're not in the playground here. You need to think about what you are writing before you write it ... the law doesn't care that your a little kid with a big ego thinking you are anonymous!

Apart from that, it's just stupid to be carrying on these type of conversations, it just shows your ignorance on the subject of photography!

Rather than suggesting the photo is fake, why not start a thread asking the experienced photographers how to take a shot like that? It'll give you the answers you are after without causing offense.




VH-ADG
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:33 am

Amen to everyone saying the pic is real!  Big thumbs up

But just ONE FINAL HINT!!!!!
just ONE!!!!!

have a look at the jetblast!!!! It continues in the clouds, how the hell are you going to PS that!????

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
zebfly2
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 11:44 pm

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:39 am

Here are some more outstanding pics taken that day:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Piboontum



Also, check out this one from 1976:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kjell nilsson

Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
 
Guest

RE: This Delta 764 Pic

Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:10 am

Well if they are not fake how do they get these shots at that angle and that high !!!! To me they look FAKE ......computer graphics ! i can easily do the same with some advanced photo programs and edit the backround and etc ...and if there not fake how do u get the sky to line up perfectly ???

LOOK VERY CLOSELY ...


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Photo © Jay Piboontum



nzjet100



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