Marco_Polo
Topic Author
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 1:47 pm

Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 2:10 am

I just have a general questions regarding D60 image quality when it comes Canon EOS USM Image Stabalizer lenses.

A) I was wondering if any other photographers out there are happy or impress with image quality pre-processing, no post-processing, when using USM Image Stabalizer either the 75-300mm or the 100-400mm. This is regardless whether you have the Image Stabalizer ON or OFF.

B) What are you thoughts on the Image quality comparison between D30 and D60 either RAW or uncompressed JPEG files.

Looking forward to hearing some of your input from the digital world folks.

Best Regards,

Jay Piboontum
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 2:32 am

Not sure what you're asking here Jay - I have a number of IS lenses and performance varies. The 300mm IS f4 is razor sharp, the 70-200 IS 2.8 is also very sharp for a zoom. The 100-400 IS is very good but not, as you might expect from a long zoom in the same class as the fixed 300. I'm not sure IS is at all a factor in the image quality apart from your ability to hold it still at slow shutter speeds.

IMHO all Canon files need post processing ... unless you tweak the camera settings, the standard image will be a little dark and a little soft - this is a good thing ... shadow and midtone detail is easily recovered in PS, whereas burned out highlights would be a disaster. Likewise, by leaving the image a little soft, sharpening artifacts and fringing are avoided - the images respond very well to USM in PS.

Out of camera, large/fine jpg and RAW are indistinguishable BUT, the RAW files are much more suited to post processing, so I think the final image is better.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:09 am

I can't answer for the lenses, (using Sigma 170-500....wishing for a IS lens one of these days....)

I don't see the difference in post processing between the RAW and fine JPEG files. If the image was good out of the camera it sharpens up nicely as a JPEG. (as mentioned a little on the dark side, but easy to brighten up just a touch in PS elements...) 8X12 prints made at a local photo shop are incredible, all shot on fine/jpeg.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tony Zeljeznjak



Tony
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:10 am

By the way....Those photos from LAX are INCREDIBLE!!!!
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:43 am

Jay,

No issues with the D60 and the 100-400 IS. As with Tony, they come out of the camera pretty nice and sharpen up a treat simply using something like 100, 0.8, 2 or maybe slightly more depending on the image. Fiddle with the levels a bit and you're in.

I also use the 100-400 IS with the Canon 1.4x extender, and this combo produces pretty good results too, albeit that the AF has a sense of humour failure and I need to cut over to MF (rotate the focus ring - ughh, thought I'd got away from that several years ago!)

Over 300 images shot over the weekend and I'm happy with pretty much all of them - I'll make sure the other screeners give me priority!  Big grin

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Marco_Polo
Topic Author
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 1:47 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:35 am

Guys:

Awesome inputs!!! O.k. Here is the kicker. I guess I am asking this questions because I just wanted to do a comparison. My friend Tim was shooting almost similar photos with me at LAX that day with Paul Paulsens and others. We both use uncompressed JPEG. I still have a D30 while he has upgrade his to a D60. When we downloaded the pictures JPEG raw and untouched. When you zoom in 1:1 ratio pictures, on his monitor you can see noises a redish / magenta kind of noise incorporated in the clear blue sky while mine on D30 there is no noticable noises. Now here is the kicker, when he switch over to RAW file which is outrageously large, and took the same pic with the same sky background, those noises no longer exists.

Now my questions to you guys. Have you guys seen this? If not, do you guys believe this might be a JPEG characterisitc or some other issues relating to internal software / hardware (CMOS). If you guys do see this noises in JPEG Large Uncompressed, are you concern?

If you guys like we can send a sample file to anyone who is interested in looking at the noises we are talking about.

Not trying to be knit picky but it does concerns me when I decide to upgrade my D30 to D60. If not I may have to choose an alternate EOS-1D which is a different review in itself. I will make that a discussion later.

Best Regards,

Jay Piboontum
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:49 am

Jay,

I've just looked closely at a few fine/large jpegs produced by my D60 this last weekend and I see nothing in blue skies that concerns me.

If you are really concerned, I'd be happy to look at an image - maybe just a section where the red/magenta is apparent to save e-mail download time?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:56 am

I just took a look at some shots that I took yesterday at North Island. Nice clear blue sky, some with nice white clouds from storms out east and I see no noise in them at all. I even looked at them on my laptop and saw nothing. Maybe it is the monitor? (I can send you one of my files and you can see if it shows on your monitor...)

Tony
 
ckw
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:01 am

Both shooting at ISO 100? Certainly noise will be discernable at ISO 200.

When the D60 was first released, there were comments on dpreview that some felt the D60 output wasn't quite as silky smooth as the D30. Can't say I see it myself, and I've shot with both - but admittedly not much in jpg.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
tpk
Posts: 188
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:17 am

I'm the one with the noise. I've always shot ISO 100 and never had a problem when I had my D30. Then again, I was able to shoot Raw because the file sizes were significantly smaller.

I think I've hastily deleted all of the photos that had it really bad, but if I'm able to find one and you wouldn't mind looking at it Andy, I would really appreciate it. I'll let you know.

Hopefully I'll be able to solve the problem and allow Jay to feel comfortable gettting a D60 while improving my own photography.

Tim
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:26 am

Tim,

Had another look at some jpegs... Still I can't see anything that remotely resembles your problem. I've tried looking in Photoshop, and directly through a browser. I've also zoomed up the image in Photoshop to 2x and 4x with no noticable discoloration.

If you do find an image, drop it to me on e-mail and I'll take a look.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Marco_Polo
Topic Author
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 1:47 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:29 am

Tim:

Send Andy, Tony, and Colin your suspected files. As Andy suggested, crop out the area of interested and send it. CC me also.

Best Regards,

Jay
 
planedoctor
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:21 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:39 am

If you go to sites like fredmiranda.com, you will see reviews that suggest that the D60 does have a slight bit more noise in areas such as sky, even at low iso like iso 100 at 100% size. If you reduce a D60 size shot down to D30 size, you are obviously going to lose a lot of that noise and end up with an even cleaner image (although I don't know if iso 100 on the D30 can get any cleaner!). So what I am saying is: I think you get better image quality with the D60 than the D30 overall although at 100% crops there is a little more noise. Would this discourage me from getting the D60? I don't think so. However, if money were to allow I think I would ultimately prefer to go with the 1D or its successor (news of which is leaking out at the moment).


Just my view here!

-Ken
 
ckw
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:15 am

or its successor

My eyes are closed and hands over ears ... I don't want to know ... as Oscar Wilde said, I can resist anything except temptation  Smile

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 8:29 am

Heres a stupid question....

Does the noice come out on prints made from digital shots? Or is it something that only shows on a monitor?

I have had several 8x12 prints made from my D60 (all shot at 100) and the colors are as true, clear and bright as any I have ever had from film.

Tony
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Wed Sep 11, 2002 8:35 am

OK, I have been sent two cropped images by Tim. Here is my response to him:

----

Tim,

I must admit I am puzzled. Yes I can clearly see the artifacts.

I've tried the same process as you and I have to admit I see similar (though not so noticable) artifacts in a picture of mine.

However...

(1) they are not obviousy present in my original jpeg, only those saved by photoshop - even a crop represents a resave of the original image (yes?) so the only true original is the image out of the camera without a crop

(2) they are not noticable if the image is reduced to smaller sizes (i.e. 1024 pixels)

(3) they are not in any way noticable in a photo quality print from the full size original image at about 12x8 inches

I've not bothered to send my own findings (unless you really want to see them). However, I use broadly similar settings to you - 100 ISO, usually aperture priority F8.0, large fine, etc. on the Canon 100-400IS or 28-135.

The only conclusion I can draw at this moment is that the artifacts are put there by photoshop - I cannot see them in my image in the original jpegs captured by the camera without any processing/cropping/saving etc. I can only assume these artifacts are caused by the process of saving a jpeg as a second generation - as I say, even a crop followed by a save is a second generation, and therefore subject to some degredation. Maybe raw will work better?

You should ask Colin Work - ckw - he's an expert in such matters. Perhaps forward my comments, and maybe let me see what he has to say too.

Sorry I cannot be of more help,

Andy

----

Colin, I hope you don't mind me recommending your opinion!
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Marco_Polo
Topic Author
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 1:47 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:05 am

So... Has anyone shot aircraft photography with Canon EOS 1D? How is your experience with the camera, handling, and quality?

Best Regards,

Jay
 
737heavy
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:05 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Thu Sep 12, 2002 6:43 am

Canon 1Ds will be out soon, wonder what kind of quality that will be knocking out.
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: Canon EOD D60 Image Quality W/ Canon USM Is Lenses

Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:23 pm

Hi all

Heard a rumor of a Canon EOS 3D in the pipeline....might be duff info though.

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland

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