cabbott
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2000 5:09 am

Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:31 pm

Guys

Been uploading many photographs recently, still enjoying Airliner.net and i still have respect for the screener decisions. But within the last 2 days i had 2 photos rejected which i actually thought were quite good.

[LINK REMOVED]

Photo1
-------
SAS Airbus A330 LN-RKH. First Sunshine shot on the database

Photo2
-------
Air India Boeing 747-200 darkness at Copenhagen.

I'm sure you can see the others, we all have rejects from time to time but i just would like your advice how i could improve the top 2 photographs.

Keep up the good work.
Colin


 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:35 pm

Colin,

Not a good idea to post a link to your appeal page - anyone can appeal your pics from that page. Better to post a link to the large rejected photos.

On to the pics:

Scando A330 - rotate slightly so the hangar is vertical and reupload
Air India 747 - can't see the large version anymore

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
cabbott
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2000 5:09 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:59 pm

Andy thanks for the info and the warning. Just awoke after nighshift so my heads in the clouds and i didn't think.

Sorry everyone..

I Tried to post a link to the large rejected photo but the Air India wont display. There is a error there.

Colin
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:00 pm

-
 
gerardo
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:57 pm

I see some funny jaggies on the tail of the SAS A330, which I can't really explain.

BTW, it's an A330-343X.

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 10:35 am

Seems to be alot of rejections of reasonable shots coming through lately. But has anyone seen some of the stuff that the screeners get accepted. I saw the single most un-level shot get added today and laughed my brains out! We get them (rejections) for 0.2 of a degree tilt! Not a hard one to find, I won't link it here as that is not appropriate.

Also this week I've seen shots showing parts of planes, shots that are just plane (pardon the pun) "badmotiv" rejections to anyone else. Shots that aren't centred, shots that are so similar to previously added ones that it isn't funny. Another trick is to omit the registration so that it can't be checked for duplicates.

Rest assured dudes, you reject our work based on your opinions, we look at your work with the same opinions sometimes and wonder "how in the hell....." If you want site dominance, say so and we'll all bugger off somewhere else!

Considering Colin's rejections there for bad camera angle I'd be seriously considering the one a screener had accepted overnight!!!

I am not intending all out war on you guys of course, but when your average work, your unlevel work, your duplicated work etc etc get accepted and we get rejected for the most amusing reasons one starts to wonder.....

I urge others to keep this debate in good taste.

No problem with you looking at my rejected work either.

[LINK REMOVED]

Bad soft, that one really amuses me!
 
Dazed767
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:14 am

Craig....still trying to see the "badjagged" on the DC3.....  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Colin...that Air India 742 looks cool (can't see the large one though)....bad scan ey...interesting! Awsome Varig M11 shot BTW.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:19 am

The first photo on your appeal page (badcontrast) is kind of cool, I just like the way it looks IMO.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:40 am

Justin,

I know what you mean, but if you look at the cheat line it's a fraction jagged. Seen worse added, even of my own, but it didn't make it! But I learnt something from that one I must admit.

One thing I will make clear, and I'll make it VERY clear right from the start to avoid ANY confusion that some who can't read too well always miss, is that I DO NOT disagree with EVERY rejection. Like all of you, screeners included, I throw some real borderline cases into the queue sometimes - sometimes someone likes them and makes them HQ other times they are rejected for good reason. But it's the other times that are a little disappointing that one has to bug Johan with a shot that's not really that bad. We all know he has better things to do these days. And the excuse "we are only human" isn't worth the effort they use to hide behind it! There is a solution.

And, to make it alot more level sided, I propose this:-

The appointment of a dedicated Screener to screen those shots submitted by the screeners.

While this will never happen, I believe independant assesment of ALL work is the fairest way to operate any organisation. Ours is by the Screeners, let theirs be screened independently as well.

My hand's up to do it.

Perhaps see how this thread runs and then perhaps a vote in favour or against the idea would be appropriate.
 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:50 am

Screeners get rejections. What you're implying is it doesn't happen. We are all subject to the same rules. And it is quite easy to show examples that seem strange applied to NON Screeners as well

Enough has been stated as to why decisions are made. Do we really need to repost them or are you able to find those threads yourself ?
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 12:11 pm

Never said screeners don't get rejections! Everyone does!

But, given Colin's rejections and this one's acceptance one would really wonder just how the screening REALLY works!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Alderton



If that shot is level I'll eat my mobile phone! Photos that are many degree's less "unlevel" are rejected. So how could such well trained eyes for perfect photos let this through. Not to mention soft, blurry, shots of parts of planes etc etc etc that get through too (and not all yours I might add to avoid confusion and accusations of picking on individuals). The above shot highlights the point very clear though and I thought it worthy of inclusion in this thread to highlight a point (not to make fun of a specific individual).

My point is, you are all so good at rejecting photos off by .2 or so of a degree. How can you miss this!

I'll ignore the second sentence, no-one likes a smarty!
 
PPGMD
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 12:26 pm

Glenn,

I will have to agree with Craig at least on that photo, it off by about 3 deg CW, and it doesn't lose its effect when level (IMO it enhances the photo, because the dutch angle just distorts the person view). And I have to agree that other peoples photos are rejected for much less, now this isn't to say that you don't get rejections, it just shows that there are some irregularties in it.

In particular I love the Icelandic Air 757 shot he has. Its effect is just ammazing IMO, I would have loved to see it in the database.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:00 pm

Ahah I knew that would come up. Well I wont go into degrees or angles I am sure you guys understand about converging lines, Parallex etc etc. I will tell you that the mound in the background was running approx 45 degree's away from me. The Aircraft was not level, being light they get affected by wind but the real clincher that no one bothered to look at is the fence posts in the background.

VERTICAL as they come and yes they were upright, not leaning or anything, No UFO conspiricies involved either. But never let the facts get in the way of a good Bitch huh  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Of course you would ignore the second sentence. It shows you don't bother with the facts.

 
PPGMD
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:05 pm

Glenn, the fence and the fence posts are on the same level as the ground. In fact I leveled it by the cones in the back ground. I personally feel that the photo, is even better leveled because its more believeable for the person viewing the photo.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:16 pm

Ahhh so if all the fence posts are level that means that the photo is still crooked

Whatever, I could have done a whole bunch of things. I gave you verticals, they were accepted you really need to live with it.
 
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:21 pm

Yappy yappy stuff. Its my turn.  Smile

I think the first 2-3 photos of Colins are kick ass material. That Greenland air shot is superb. Bad contrast?! *SLAP* haha.
Also the Air India and SAS 333 is coool as well which I thought could of been treated NOT as harshly but more fairly.

Craig also has some beauties worth adding too. I like that one Qantas shot of the 763 and the 747 taking off where you said it was like QF123 to asia.
Bad common seems to be getting onto you as well eh?
Ah well, I guess if tiny angle adjustents and color correction is what it takes for a no problem upload for those rejects, then go for it. But compress the pictures like nuts so upload time would be like 2 seconds.  Smile


Bo
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:35 pm

Craig,

You mention that you "sometimes throw some borderline stuff into the queue......like all of us". Sorry, and I don't think I'm the only one here, but I don't.

My question is, "why would you want to do that???" I don't see the point?

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:44 pm

I guess I don't see the need for the appeal process. I have had my share of rejections, some I really liked, but this is not my website, and I agreed to the terms when I paid to join, and I accept the judgment of those assigned to screen my submissions. Is there such a picture that just has to be posted here? I doubt it. I understand the cost and effort that goes into these shots, as well as the disappointment associated with a rejection. But, there are always more planes to shoot and more places to shoot 'em. With the exception of few people, I doubt I will even scratch the surface of all the possibilities out there. Each outing provides it's own opportunities and challenges, that is what I enjoy about this hobby, sport, or occupation, which ever you call it.

As for a "screener" for the screeners? Nah....don't see any conspiracy going on, it would just bring more unwanted debate in my opinion. Someone will most likely claim his submissions are getting accepted in return for accepting the the screener's shots.

And on Glenn's photo... I did see the fence and the tree line, had to look twice, but they convinced me.

v/r
Jeff Miller
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:02 pm

My sincere apologies.

I would wish to thank the screeners for the wonderful and highly consistent job they do here. They are all professional photographers whose photos are among the best aviation photos you will see anywhere in the world. Having never made mistakes, they would never admit to one. And indeed the way they commend and praise their fellow photographers is superb.

They lead by example and show the utmost respect in every instance.

Again, these utterly perfect human beings deserve nothing but our praise and thanks.

I "dips" my hat to you and salute you all. When the dear lord created you he had perfection in mind. We should all stand tall and aspire to take photos like yours.

My sincerest regards and compliments.

Mr. Whadda Loadofshite

Get with the program boys. Winds, mounds running away from the camera. What a Loadofshite! It highlights just how arrogant some screeners have become.

I'm happy with my work, my statistics and hits tell the only story I choose to tell.







 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:10 pm

Sorry craig, I thought you called yourself a photographer. Obviously as long as the camera does the work you don't need to understand the rest I guess.

"Winds, mounds running away from the camera. What a Loadofshite"

Anyway, glad that your doing so well, attitudes can sometimes work against you.
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:29 pm



Rwy level, blurred fence posts level, cones level, horizon level. This is how Narromine looks.

You say "attitudes can sometimes work against you" I do agree they can can't they?

I know what looks more level to me!

 
planeboy
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

Mr. Murray

Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:00 pm

Craig,

What's up? You consistantly place great photos into this database. Why the bad tone? Especially since your use of a high-end digital camera ?

What's up dude? Maybe I should not speak of this -but are you so high and mighty that you have to cry about a few rejections ?

I speak rather sour and dark and gloomy in this forum but never in criticism of screeners or other photographers here. I bitch and moan sometimes about the "system". I complain sometimes about life - but come on Craig - you have been given your due - eh'?

Grow up Craig. Put the sarcasm to sleep. You are great sometimes. Please don't try to force it - cause it's not worth it...
 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:22 pm

Craig yes it does look good. It also doesn't detract from the fact my original still has verticals. Would you prefer I upload them twice, you know I have in the past  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But come on now, we gave you a break on this one

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/251691/L/

Do you really want to carry on about angles. If I was to have screened this shot (mine not yours), I would have looked at my shot and said well yes I can see a vertical, that's a pass. If there was nothing like a fenceline to guage it, I still would have, who am I to say what's right and wrong if I can't tell visually. If there was a building leaning, then NO. Unless of course other factors that have been mentioned in other threads (Do you really want me to post them or can you find them yourself) come into play. They all get accepted or rejected on what is a fair decision at the time.
Next w'll be complaining about this colour getting accepted over that colour.

Chill out, if it isn't Smoky in Sydney, enjoy a couple of days down at the airport. Unfortunately (well fortunately) for me I am tied up watching the Cricket, Rugby League and Bathurst Race, so no photography for me.
 
planeboy
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:54 pm

WOW-

I need to mind my "own business" or maybe get a "media" job. You fellas seem to be getting on with fun. I like it. Keep the comedy rolling...
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:56 pm

Back to Collins post.....

I thought I would show you some of my last week rejections just so you can see you’re not on your own with strange (in my opinion) rejections

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=DSC02816.jpg bad scan

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=DSC02936.jpg bad distance

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=DSC02956.jpg bad scan

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=DSC02848.jpg bad scan

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=DSC02718.jpg bad scan

All the above were rejected by the third screener, so 2 accepted 1 rejected.

Its very difficult to judge your own work, but I can see no reason to reject.

The screeners in my opinion do a great job 99% of the time and I accept that variations in opinions will forever be something that we will have to live with.

What I think would be nice is to be able to get the rejected screeners comments rather than just bad scan etc from (a screener) even if this was for photographers who say have over a 100 pictures on the DB, so not to waste screeners time to much.

But your honest opinion on the above would be interesting to hear.

All the very best

Derek Pedley
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:05 pm

Yo Glenn,

None of that for me this weekend, I had the Bathurst Race all ready to go but have got Anna's Mum here for the weekend and Anna's in hospital so I will see bits and pieces of it! Two Words....

GO HOLDEN!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, Friday bitch session over and out at this end. Back into the fun of all this!!!

A've a good weekend ya 'all.

Craigo
PS - Don't take me all too seriously! Who's for a beer this arvo???
 
Glenn
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:10 pm

Well I guess I have to disagree just once more.

Go FORD
(even though they ain done to well this year )

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:34 pm

What an interesting thread this has become. As usual, it degenerates.

Craig: relax. Like planeboy has said, you take great photos, sometimes we all get rejections. Screeners included. I've had more rejections since the screener concept has been put in place than when Johan was doing it. Oh, and I'm a screeener.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

As I always say, don't compare, just concentrate on your own photos, just leads to angst and unecessary unhappiness at the end of the day. All this thread writing and arguing, you could have uploaded a bunch more!

And also, I still don't get why anyone would upload borderline stuff when they have good stuff. Perhaps if you didn't do that, you would get less rejections???

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
User avatar
derekf
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:06 pm

Trying to get the thread away from a bitching session, I recently had most of mine rejected for blurry, badscan etc.
I don't agree with saying don't compare however. You have to look at what is in the database to see how the pictures you are planning to upload compare with those already there. I thought they compared well but I was wrong.
I can accept rejections for quality and will try harder next time but the difference in photo equipment is having a major effect. I am still struggling with a flatbed and prints, not having the cash for expensive digital equipment. I am going to slides next so I should enjoy an improvement.

Incidentally, one of mine was rejected for not being level. I adjusted it by 0.2deg to make it level! I was unfortunate enough to have a large light pole in the background.

The rejects I struggle with are the (a)esthetics. This is purely a matter of opinion and in that respect my opinion is as valid as anyone elses.
Another reason one of mine was rejected was that there were too many pictures of the same aircraft on the database. Surely if the picture is good enough it should be accepted, regardless of how many others are in the database. I do not check how many other pictures of the same aircraft already exist. This rule was obviously revoked for N707JT.

Perhaps a warning should be added to the upload page like " Warning - this photo was not taken with a D60. This may spoil the viewers enjoyment. Please bear this mind when viewing"!!

Sorry about the rant

Regards
Derek
Whatever.......
 
Skymonster
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:11 pm

Before the "new" screeners were appointed, everyone with over a certain number of pictures in the database was e-mailed and asked if they wanted to / were prepared to become a screener. Given that Craig has over 4000 pictures in the database at the moment and hasn't been adding at such a prolific rate recently that he would have been excluded when the request went out, I can only presume that he was offered this opportunity but for whatever reason he chose not to take it.

Of course, as with many other activities in life, its much easier to be an arm-chair screener than it is to do the job for real. However, I see that Craig has now offered his services to airliners.net, albeit not for a currently vacant position: The appointment of a dedicated Screener to screen those shots submitted by the screeners. My hand's up to do it.

Of course, much as you the photo forum participants would have been aggrieved if the new screeners had been immediately let loose on your photographs, it would be fallacy in the extreme to allow any new "screener" to immediately go to work on real world screening of pictures, even those of other screeners. As I said, a screener's screener is not currently being considered anyway. However, seeing as Mr Murray now seems prepared to invest time in screening photographs for this site, maybe he'd like to apply to join the regular screening crew and if accepted see what life is like on the other side of the database? By doing this, Mr Murray would gain another advantage in that he would become part of this supposedly cliquey club that accepts each others pictures even when they have obvious defects, and would thus have no further problems with rejection of his own pictures.

Andy

PS: I don't actually agree with the suggestion made by Craig - if we have a screener's screener, unless that person was not a photographer, that person would not be indepenent - who would screen the pictures submitted by the screener's screener? And besides, having our own pictures screened by a third party would make no difference to how we judged other pictures we screen.
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:22 pm

Im sorry but I have to agree with Craig here.....

Go Holden Big grin

Cheers

Paul (Preparing to watch the race live from the wrong side of the world!)
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:24 pm

Paul,

You are asking to get kicked out of our cliquey club aren't you!! Big grin More rejections for you Big grin

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
Glenn
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:33 pm

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:16 pm

Well all I can say to you Paul is (Blows a big Rasberry)

I hope you're worried about your cricket team. See what we are currently doing to the Pakistanis 9 for 50. That'll teach them to get close to winning the last test  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I agree with Andrew, More rejections for paul  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:28 pm




Loundes ... phrrrrrrr  Big grin




VH-ADG
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:12 pm

Back from hospital briefly!

Nice pic Bron but he really belongs in a COMMODORE!!!!!!!!! Nice pic of Lowndesy anyway!

Ok, gotta go again!

C YA folks!
 
Guest

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:39 pm

No way Craig, Holden was built for...



SKAIFE!!!! Not anywhere near the physical appeal of Loundes, but drives ok when he's in the right mood.



VH-ADG


 
cabbott
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2000 5:09 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:22 am

Guys thanks for the comments.

It's very interesting to see how some people take rejection.

I take my hat off to the screeners, it must be a hard job looking through all these photos. You all do a very good job and even when i get rejections i understand and very rarely appeal. Just on this occasion i was a little surprised to have what i thought were "good" photos rejected.

I started the thread to ask how to improve or to see if anyone could spot the obvious. The thread has just went WILD!

Anyway for me rejection is good sometimes, it just makes me get out there and try to do better.

Thanks to those who contributed the useful information.
Colin
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Sat Oct 12, 2002 6:19 am

Andy,

Yeah I did get both e-mails to join the team as a screener, but both times I left the e-mails in a pile of others and never got around to applying before the deadline! What a slacker hey?!

And to clarify, while sometimes disappointed with rejections, they really don't phase me that much. I've got thousands of other photos that sit and await there turn in the queue. But, as stated, I have learned from rejections too. Not photo taking techniques but minor editing techniques. And I do thank you for that! Anything to make shots look better!

Now, back to the real argument. Bron, I'll put Twenty quid on Holden winning the race rain, hail or shine!! I like that picture, but liked it in it's original unedited form! For someone who works in the motor industry I've always wondered why I never take pictures at events! The last one I was at no camera's were allowed at - bloody secret test facilities!

 
administrator
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Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:51 am

Wow, I just noticed you posted your Appeal link on the starting post of this thread Colin - that's a Bad Thing. Never make your appeal link public or some user with a lot of spare time will click on all the buttons and make my and your life hell.

I removed the link.

Thanks for understanding,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:53 am

Wow again, Craig had done the same thing! Time for some additional text on the appeal page.

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:21 am

RE: Photo Improvement Or Just Accept It?

Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:09 pm

Sorry chief! It would be good if there was a link to the photos though that didn't feature the ACTUAL appeal button. So those who so desire could show their rejected shots. Could be something to think about.

Cheers and Beers,
CM

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