N178UA
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Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:48 pm

Hi all

I am seeking some good advice on how to get rid of the dark corner on slides, Nikon rep told me it is the curvature of the lens and sky cause it, but I know there is some sort of way to get rid of it, just imagine you shoot a fabulous plane in sunny days, then the slide turned dark corner around....

1. I know definity it is NOT cause by the lens, I have it on my 28-80, 80-200mm f2.8, 80-400VR, so not just one lens. I don't get them on all slides, just 30% about...I do Continuous High Shooting on F5.

The remedy I am working is this

I have used to take photo at P (Program mode) , I reckon the speed are bit too fast and apparture are little too big (low apparture) to cause the dark corners. Also due to my Slide film is ISO50 only, and Continuous High shooting are bit too fast.

E.g

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



I also notice several A.net slide shooter have it too, some of them are also using 2.8 glass.

I am not sure this is correct,
but now I am trying to take photo at A (Aparture Priority Mode), set Aparture mostly in good light at 11. The camera will choose the corresponding speed. This makes the apparture small and speed lower, to get rid of the dark corner.

Anyone if you have experience about what I said, please shed me some light!!

Thanks in advance
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
TomH
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:52 pm

Shoot at f8 and see how they look. This is usually caused by the lens, and can often be improved upon by stopping the aperture down during exposure.
 
Staffan
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:00 pm

Usually get this when shooting in sunny conditions with the lense wide open, at the lowest aperture. Try stopping the lense down to f/8 or f/11, probably will help.

Staffan
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:12 pm

Tom
No, if I leave at Program in sunny day on 50ASA slide film, I get 250/sec f8.0 and I do have it (but not always)...I am thinking doing Aparture priority (like f9.5 or f11 let the aparture goes up, so speed slow down, like 200 f9.5 instead of 250 f8, I think the speed are too fast on High Continuous shooting, so I get them, I tracked most of the slides have those are due to HC motordrive shooting.

Let me know if I am getting idea wrong...
Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:16 pm

Sorry but you mean aparture down means from (example f5.6 to f8) or the other way round? I always confuse the term aparture down...
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
cfalk
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:39 pm

Sam,

It's those cheap Nikon lenses

I'll duck now

All done throwing things?

Anyway. It is the lens that is causing vignetting. It's the only thing that CAN cause vignetting. A professional-quality lens, like Canon's L series (with the exception of the 35-350mm lens, from what I've seen) will not give any vignetting, even at it's widest aperture. I don't know Nikon lenses, but I assume they are (almost) as good as Canon, at least their upper-range glass.

But virtually all consumer-grade lenses (i.e. less than $1000 for the glass alone) will suffer from vignetting. The answer is to "stop-down" the lens. If the widest aperture the lens is designed for is f/2.8, try going no wider than f/4. If that does not work, try f/5.6. If THAT doesn't work, try f/8, then f/11. I had a Sigma 28-300mm lens that was simply terrible - I had to go all the way down to f/11 to get rid of vignetting!!! Needless to say, I got rid of that lens pretty quickly.

About your choice of film. I see you are using 50 ASA film. Great stuff, but if your lens can't hack it, you'd be better off going to a good 100 ASA film like Provia and getting the extra stop worth of light to allow you to correct your vignetting.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:02 pm

Hi Charles

Thanks for the good advice, I paid a fortune on my Nikon Lens, a Nikon 80-200 2touch tripod mound ED f2.8, and a new 80-400 VR lens f4.5-5.6, they are not those cheapo one that I will give up or throw away  Big grin and I get about 30% vignetting slides, not all of them thank god. I notice most vignetting came from the 2.8 lens, I am shooting Velvia at camera P mode, normally a sunny day got 200 f7.1 or 250 f8. I am trying to hit A priority to f9.5 (next F stop down) or F11 even. The vignetting ones are the best condition like Stefan above said. (very nice blue sky)

I have been with Vevia 3 yrs now, I just love it, but I just want absoluty perfect (impossible) with no vignetting.

Thanks
Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
ckw
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:09 pm

There are 2 possible other causes:

1 - lens hood - if you use one and it is a little to long, it will cause vignetting. Shouldn't be a problem with a hood supplied with the lens, but a 3rd party hood may cause this

2 - filters can cause this on wide angle lenses if they are too thick.

Other than that it is the lens that is at fault - you don't give the exact spec of the lenses you are using, but the 80-400 VR is a pro lens - reviews suggest that vignetting is almost negligable even wide open, which is not what you are showing us in your pics.

All the lenses you mention are zooms - does this only occur at the widest angle? Is your hood adjustable?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
cfalk
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:10 pm

Hmm. Vignetting on a hi-grade lens several stops away from its' aperture limits. That's VERY peculiar. Enough to say, I think, that there is something wrong with the lens or the camera. This simply should not happen.

I have been with Vevia 3 yrs now, I just love it, but I just want absoluty perfect (impossible) with no vignetting.

As well you should. if you've paid through the nose for a hi-grade lens and probably the finest film in existance, there should be no reason to settle for less.

I would have another chat from your Nikon rep. By the way, is he REALLY a Nikon rep? Does Nikon pay his salary? You want to talk with somebody from Nikon itself. Not just an agent.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:30 pm

Hi Colin

The 80-400VR doesn't get much (if any) vignetting, most problem came from the 80-200mm 2.8 I know a few other have this lens, and I have seen they are having a few of their (not all) slides have the same problem although not very obvious to see.

I use Nikon standard lenshood on the 80-400VR. no problem with any vignetting on that! It is the 80-200mm.

Tried to get the filter off on the 80-200mm, then I think it works at least once (but may be just lucky??) coz I did it only once, but for some reason I put the filter on after again, it is a HOYA brand 77mm. Vignetting happened about 30% of my slides.

Charles

The Nikon guy is a real Nikon Tech support guy from Maxwell Optics which is Nikon Australia sole distributer. I am going to check with them again. But right now, I am changing to Appature Priority and push down to at least f8 or f9.5 and/or remove the filter to see how it works again!
thanks for the advice.
Sa

For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Craigy
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:16 pm

Sam,
If you are on P mode, I would suggest some aperture problem. Sounds like the camera is selecting an aperture too wide 30% of the time. At least on aperture priority your results should stay constant if you leave the setting alone.
Craig
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:33 am

Sam,

That level of vingetting is definitely NOT the lenses alone. Both the 80-200 and the 80-400 are top-notch glass (better than the Cannnnon so-called equivalents  Smile/happy/getting dizzy). I can think of only two reasons:

1) mechanical obstruction such as a lens hood or filter. Although it’s highly unlikely on the 80-200 due to the field of view.

2) a problem with the camera body with respect to the mechanics that close down the aperture when the shutter opens. On the Nikon bodies, even if the aperture malfunctions, the camera will attempt to complete the exposure using the available light sensor. Therefore you don’t completely loose the shot due to a stuck aperture ring. To see if there is a problem with the aperture closing down, set the camera to aperture priority, set the aperture to F11 or smaller and look down the front of the lens as you release the shutter. If you don’t see that iris close down, then you have a problem in the lens or body.

Sunil
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:56 am

Hi Sunil and ALL,

Thanks for all your advices. I am going to do the following

1. Try to use A mode, set Apparture at F8 or F9.5 or even down to F11. Also get rid of the filter to try.

One thing I worry is if I set at f9.5 or f11, and the shutter speed will be lot lower, especailly I am shooting at 50 speed, like Charles said, it may cause blur with quick panning on action...but I believe set at f8 will do coz most of the time I get vignetting at f7.1 and about 80-90mm on the 80-200mm lens.

2. If still not works, like that iris didnt close down, then I know it is the lens problem, will bring back to Nikon for sure.

3. I notice all my recent USA visit slides don't have much vignetting, but from Taipei are just terrible, and I recell the P mode Aparture select was f7.1 most of the time (was little hazey then), and USA trip due to prime time shooting sun, it select f8. Seems I can get rid of them at f8. but have them at f7.1.

Sincerely,
Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
JeffM
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:19 am

Sam,
This might sound silly, but do you get the same problem when you put those lenses on your D100?

Or is it only on your film camera?

Jeff
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:11 am

Sam, just a side question: Are those A340's actually that soft, or is it my eyes?  Big grin Sorry - had to ask.

-Dmitry

P.S. screeners - any answers?
 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:56 pm

Jeff

No, not on D100, but my censor get 2 spot dust, I am sure those are not on my lens.

D-
Those A340 are not soft in real slide form, I didn't know the best way to do USM in Photoshop until Gary Watt came to rescue.

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
raaf_mirage
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 1:55 pm

Sam.

Last year I owned both.

80-400 VR. 80-200 2.8 two touch.

I experienced severe vignetting when using both lenses with large apertures.
I experimented with UV filters and hoods removed but no improvement. I did all the research and asked Nikon tech guys questions at Maxwells etc - and was just fed up with Nikon altogether.

I ditched both lenses a few months ago along with my F100 and other Nikon lenses. I picked up a few Canon bodies (3 & 5) and replaced my Nikon glass with two Canon 70-200 F4's. Even though they're the 'cheapies' of the L series gear,they're awesome. I, like many Nikon people, fought the urge to go Canon, but I'm now so glad I did. I can shoot anything at anytime with these lenses, wide open at F4 and never lose a shot.

Others have suggested you close down to f8 - f11 but that's not really a solution to your problem. You shouldnt expect the 80-400 to perform as well as a prime 400mm lens but you shouldn't have to shoot at f11 all day to avoid vignetting.

Good luck.










 
JeffM
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 2:40 pm

OK Sam, one last try. Is the viginetting visible on the slide when on a light box? I am wondering if it just shows up after being scanned. Maybe the scanner's light source needs replacement?

Jeff
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:09 pm

Thanks Sam!
Mind postnig a link to that thread, I don't believe I read it, I don't know how to use it in the right way myself, so could use some understandable tips!

BTW, what type of scanner you use?

-Dmitry
 
ckw
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 6:32 pm

I hope Jeff's right - a possibility I hadn't considered. It could even be that the slide mount is casting a shadow while scanning.

I find it amazing that top end lenses, Esp. something intended for use at f2.8, could behave like this - RAAF says he's seen this ... have other Nikon users? (come on guys, be honest). Of course DSLR users needn't worry as the crop factor will eliminate edge effects.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
JeffM
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:38 pm

Colin,
I have not seen anything close to that with my Nikon N80 using print film and my cheapo 100-400mm f4-6.3 lens. Granted, the only thing that lens has in common with Sam's is it would fit on his camera, but all I have seen in some older shots is very mild viginetting with the lens open and all the way out at 400mm. I would expect that with a non-professional grade lens.

I would like to know if he can see it on a light box before scanning.

v/r
Jeff
 
raaf_mirage
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:42 pm

Sam,

Here's an example from 80-400 VR. This is one of the better one's too !
Shot on K25, accidently underexposed by half a stop or so...
Plus....this shot has been cropped quite a bit from corners...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Foley


Dreadful quality but just an example of vignetting I had.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Foley


And similar problem with Nikon 20mm 2.8....Shot at f4...I hate the light falloff to the Left...it was quite an evenly lit sky but extreme corners of this ultra wide weren't exposing the film enough when shooting at 2.8 - 4.

 
N178UA
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RE: Dark Corner/Vignetting On Slides Help!

Sat Jan 18, 2003 10:51 pm

Ok, all, thanks for your input

I am NOT going to leave f8 or f9.5 or f11, that is not the way to do it, also on top of that I shoot 50 speed film, so set at f11 the speed won't be enough often.

But, from what I found in my last trip, US/South America, if you can see some of the slides I just added to database, there are NO vignetting really, I did a setting on A priority it was at f4.2 selection before, then I change that to f8, THEN I have gone back to shoot at P mode, I scanned all of them and notice none of them have vignetting. Although this needs further proving..so if anyone is have vignetting, go to Aparture Priority, check what Aparture setting is in A, then reset at f8 or f11, then go back to Program mode to shoot at P, this works for the last 42 rolls of slide I shoot.

James, if you look at Carlos Boarder and Mike Mclaughlin slide on A.net, theyre using the 2.8 same lens I have, their stuff are beautiful and no vignetting at all. Further my 80-400 and 28-80 have no vignetting, it is only the 80--200 f2.8 causing about 30%, it seems I have found the right cure now, thanks for sharing your photo here!

Colin, if you are the one screened my recent slides, you will understand what I said here, the Phoenix/Miami/Santiago slide don't have vignetting, but the September trip of Taipei do have at both top corners visible.


Jeff, thanks for the thought again, they are visible in my lightbox, but only 30% not every single slide is stufffed. I am not getting them on lightbox or scanner on last trip all 42 rolls thankgod.

D-
I am using a S20 HP, see the recent addition, my USM setting have changed and I think they looks ok? Due to rescan some of those older ones, I know they looks shitty compare to Digital...well the real slides is hot though!!  Big grin

Currently in Phuket
Sam

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