C-GRYK
Topic Author
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:42 am

Hi,
I just had a batch of photos from Santos Dumont airport in Rio rejected. I scanned/edited them to the absolute best of my ability yet still can't seem to get any photos accepted anymore. It's quite frustrating to say the least because I feel that there is no way I can improve the quality of these images and that the only way I can get photos on here is to switch to a digital camera, which is NOT happening. Can you guys please give me some advise on how to improve these images so that they are of airliners.net quality? Any input would be highly appreciated.

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PT-SSP.jpg
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PP-SOT.jpg
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PP-VPZ.jpg
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PP-VPZfront.jpg
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PT-MZA.jpg
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=PT-MZB.jpg

I really do appreciate all the feedback.

I will give you a rundown how i scan/edit

I scan the negatives using the Minolta Dimage Scan Dual 2's easy scan utility (seems to make no difference to their regular scanning software) at the highest resolution in .TIFF format. I then open them up in Paintshop Pro 7, crop them, immediately resize to 1024 width, then I get rid of small scratches, do an edge preserving smooth filter on the sky area, and finally use USM at about Radius 1.00, Strength 130, Clipping 5. Then I'll save the image as a .JPG using a compression factor of 1, the lowest you can go.

Please tell me... can I improve these or is airliners.net is not a place where my photos are welcome anymore?

Thanks

Jeremy

P.S. Would be nice if screeners could include more personal notes as to why they rejected the shot instead of all of those generic responses, which don't seem to help at all. Cheers!
Think before you type!
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:53 am

My first impression is that the colour balance is off. I tried addaing some more magenta and yellow to the TAM PT-MZA shot, it made quite a difference.

Otherwise they are nice shots!

Staffan
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:57 am

I think the main problem is your sharpening technique - it seems to be eroding very fine detail and is too soft on titles and regs.

I can't remember the details of PSP, but taking a stab at PS equivalences I think you are using too large a radius (in PS I use 0.3-0.6) and the "clipping" - which I think is the same as threshold, is set to high. In fact I suggest you don't use it at all - try setting it to 0. - I'm fairly sure this is why you are loosing detail. You may pic out a little more grain as a result, but I wouldn't worry - as it is, your scans look unnaturally smooth for negs.

One other comment - do any editing, dust touch up etc. BEFORE resize - any bad pixels resulting for this work will get averaged out when you resize.

Finally, it's taken me about 10-15 minutes to study your picture and compose a reply. Where are the screeners supposed to find the time to do this for every rejection?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
dripstick
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:43 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:57 am

Jeremy,

The only problem I see is your white balance and levels. I played with your first image in Photoshop 6 to get this. (Copy and paste the link...Tripod sucks)

http://dripstick.tripod.com/PT-SSP2.jpg

It's been awhile since I used PSP. Try adjusting the colour balance.

They all just need some tweaking.

Cheers, Dripstick
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
dripstick
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:43 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:20 am

One more tweaked...

(copy and paste the link)
http://dripstick.tripod.com/PT-MZA2.jpg

Dripstick
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
apjung
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 3:20 pm

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:24 pm

If you want to get digital, get a model with at least 3 Megapixels. Even at 3.1 megapixels with my Sony CyberShot DSC-P71, I get less than 25% successful submission rate unless I was to jump over the airport fence to get a better picture or get a 5 Megapixel camera. But seriously, the problem with my submissions is mainly lighting and focus. I'm still trying to figure out how much exposure level is needed if I was to take pictures with the sun NOT directly behind my back for optimum lighting. I'm also trying to figure out which focus setting should I use. This is the manual for my camera.
http://www.cybershotcentral.com/manuals/DSC-P71.pdf

I seriously want to know how I can reduce the rejection rate.
I set the camera at maximum pixels (2048x1536) and then use Photoshop 5.0 LE to crop and resize to 1024x768, then Image>Adjust>Auto Levels, then Filter>Sharpen>Unsharp Mask (amount 100 to 200%, radius 1.0 pixels, threshold 2 to 10 levels) then Image>Adjust>Brightness/Contrast.

The image quality of these photos are low.
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-USAirwaysA320_N118US_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-Delta767_N140LLa_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-Delta767_N140LLb_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-Delta757_N6701_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-NorthwestDC9_N962N_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-NorthwestDC9_N751NW_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-Delta767_N1402A_enhanced.JPG
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-USAirExpBeech1900D_N13ZV_enhanced.JPG

I can't seem to get any Air Canada pics accepted. Maybe it's the maple leaf on the tail. I'm seriously considering appealing this one. This is about as close as you can get without jumping the fence but it's in a remote area and I don't like to stay there for a lengthy period of time before somebody gets paranoid and call the Kenner City Police.
http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=MSY-AirCanadaA319_C-GBIA_enhanced.JPG

Here' the more remote spotting location which is much closer to the taxiway next to runway 19.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K13521D23

Where I usually spot near runway 19.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R1A642902

Somebody did call the police in the past and ironically these are my first two pictures ever on A.net courtesy of the kind and courteous Kenner Police Deputies who allowed me to take them.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy P. Jung
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy P. Jung



Details about the police questioning me:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=IXT39.338351%24DB.9824038%40news1.east.cox.net

Also, I used to bring a stepladder with me to put on the back of my pickup truck to get pictures over the fence but I realized if I wanted to be less conspicuous I can just simply stick my camera lens through the chain link fence.
Andy P. Jung
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:45 pm

Andy, again I think it is the sharpening technique working against you. Programs like PS are designed for graphic artists who are often working on very large images - A.net stuff is comparatively very small, low res work, so what might be advised as "default" or "typical" sharpening settings are just not suited for the special case of small jpgs.

You need to sharpen at the most detailed level - I would suggest 1.0 is much too high - more suited to a small print at 300DPI. Try changing to 0.5, or if you have very "clean" images (no noise/grain) even 0.3 and increasing the amount to the 200-300% range.

As for threshold - don't use it! At these resolutions it is working against you - in effect threshold is saying ignore differences in contrast between adjacent pixels. This can be useful for large scale graphics, but is useless at A.net resolutions where significant detail (eg. a reg letters) may be only a pixel or 2 wide.

I think some use threshold to try and remove grain - or at least avoid making grain/noise more obvious. A better technique is to not sharpen areas which are prone to this (eg. sky) by masking.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
apjung
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 3:20 pm

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:06 pm

Colin,
Ah, thanks for the advice. I can never really figure out how to set the unsharp mask but I have gotten much closer with your advice.
How do you not use threshold? Do you set it at minimum 20 levels?
How do you mask?
Andy P. Jung
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Can I Honestly Improve These Scans?

Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:13 am

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