Eduard
Topic Author
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:20 am

Hi all

Propfreak made me aware that in the today's number of "Blick" (Swiss newspaper with more than 300'000 copies daily) my photo of the Iraqi B727 got published on page 3 (size rather small: 3 x 8 cm):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Marmet



- I have not been asked for permission
- absolutely no credit given
- .... and of course no money.

Of course I will write to Blick to draw their attention to the copyright infringement. But which rights I have really?
How far shall I go ?
Any advice and comments are welcome. Thanks a lot.

Eduard
new user is EchoMike
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:43 am

How far should you go? Well, you are in the drivers seat, really. You can get a lot more from the shot now that it is published then if they had contacted you with an offer for usage.

It is a rare shot, plus they stole it from you. How about 500 euros as a place to start...
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:56 am

Page 3? Doesn't look like the page 3 pictures we get here in the UK Big grin

LGW
 
Guest

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:21 am

Eduard,

My opinion only

They are a commercial entity, they stole your image. Go the whole way. Find an address and send them an eMail/letter. Ensure they are fully aware that a copyright has been breached. Enclose an invoice (I always invoice for $500US when that happens to me). Sometimes I get lucky and they pay up, other times they don't.

Good luck.

My suggestion to everyone is not to let news agencies get away with copyright infringement. After all, it's not like they'd let you do it if the situation was reversed!





ADG
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:32 am

That is good advice from ADG. I agree.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4968
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:41 am

I think Gary Watt had a similar problem awhile back, and was rewarded handsomely. Haven't heard much from Mr. Watt since then, I hear he's livin it up in the French alps now  Big grin
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:34 pm

Drive them man! I would think $500 is not enough....charge them more. But thats just my opinion.

-Dmitry
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:52 pm

I am no expert but I'd try a lot higher than $500 (Sfr 750). Multiply by 2 or 3, you can always come down later. After all, this is the Blick.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick&quo

Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:11 pm

Well, congratulations on getting your picture published! Big grin I agree with Teahan, but I would start out asking for $1500-$2000 considering that this is a major publication/newspaper. I dont know what the laws are like in Switzerland, but you should infer that you are willing to bring legal action against the publisher if you are not sufficiently rewarded monetarily.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:31 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:23 pm

I can see it now... Gary skiing down the slopes in his Braveheart kilt.  Big grin

~Los

Justin writes:

>>I think Gary Watt had a similar problem awhile back, and was rewarded handsomely. Haven't heard much from Mr. Watt since then, I hear he's livin it up in the French alps now<<
 
Thom@s
Posts: 11674
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2000 2:03 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:50 pm

LGW, "Page 3? Doesn't look like the page 3 pictures we get here in the UK "

Nope, the birds there have larger...erm.. engines.  Big grin

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Eduard
Topic Author
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:23 pm

Thanks a lot for your opinions. Yesterday evening I wrote a rather severe letter to them with threat of legal actions. I will keep you informed as soon as I have some news.

Usually I am very fair with requests for private use or even for small publications issued by individuals, but this one ... I cannot accept that!

Regards
Eduard

P.S. I am not a regular "Blick"-reader, but the well known "page-3-picture" was in this issue on page 9.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

new user is EchoMike
 
aviator100
Crew
Posts: 224
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RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:12 pm

Eduard,

For the publication of a picture with a diagonal size less than 13 cm and a max. size of approx. 8x10 cm in a newspaper with a print run of 300.000 to 500.000 the Dutch Photographers Federation recommends a minimal prize of € 127 excl. VAT.
Since Blick used the picture without your permission you can charge them a lot more, in my opinion. They must have been aware that they were infringing your copyright. Copyright rules are usually well known in the offices of a big newspaper!

Regards,
Ad
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:23 pm

Eduard
Just sue them ...! I don't like Blick anyway ... But most Swiss Magazine don't know a lot about Aviation in general and it seems they don't know a lot about Copyright issues as well. Actually very sad ...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Eduard
Topic Author
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:24 pm

I had just got an E-Mail from them: They offers me CHF 300.00 (=about EUR 200.00). What do you think, shall I accept ?

kind regards
Eduard

new user is EchoMike
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:03 am

In a word, NO !!

Don't take such a puny settlement, they've got deep pockets.

I've sold this photo for $500.00 before with permission, and your
shot is MUCH rarer than mine......

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=13461


Good luck!


Jay
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:51 am

Tell them to add another zero to that sum or otherwise they could expect some legal action. That ought to get their butts moving
 
Guest

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:51 am

Eduard,

Personally I would accept that amount in good faith. You may get more if you stick to it or you may get nothing. Remember, the last thing you want to do is end up pursuing them in court. It's one thing to *threaten* legal action, but quite another to pay the lawyers fees.

But again, this decision is yours alone to make. If you asked for more then they shouldnt' have offered you less, if you want to ask for more you may try an eMail saying "legal advice indicates a fee of $.... is appropriate ....".

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. We can't even get the skanky polish press to respond to us at all, let alone pay for the image they stole!





ADG
 
rindt
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 3:08 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:32 am

ADG,

There's is absolutely no good faith here... you've completely missed the point.


Eduard,

$200Euros for such a shot is an insult. You tell them that - and don't forget, while some legal ($$) recourse on your part may be necessary, they're going to have pay legal fees also - and it's clear they would lose. They're just low-balling you to see if you're a sucker, because many would take the bait. Dangle $5000EU in front of their face, and don't be shy about it - this is YOUR picture they clearly stole.
I STRONGLY urge you to not take the pityful amount they are offering.

-Rob
What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:09 am

Absolutely ridiculous. Definitely ask for another 0 on that. This is 300,000 copies we are talking about, not some 10,000 copy magazine/regional newspaper.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:18 am

Keep going...ask for more man...thats definitely not enough!!!!!

Good luck!

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
propfreak
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2000 10:26 pm

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:12 am

hi there
I have a friend working in publicity and he states that you should get at least 2000 CHF (~€1300) - also because you didn't get any credit and it was in color too.
don't throw away your work - it's the biggest selling paper in Switzerland and they have the money... (AND they tried to cheat you) !
good luck
Olav
 
Eduard
Topic Author
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:46 am

Hi all

thanks all of you for your opinions and suggestions.
Today I wrote again a letter to BLICK offering them 2 possibilities for reparation:

a) to pay CHF 1'200.00 or
b) to publish again the photo with full credit/apology and to pay CHF 300.00

I informed them to follow with legal actions and to inform the 'Schweizer Presserat' (Swiss council of press) if they do not accept.
Comparing your opinions above I feel that this is still a fair offer.

I keep you informed.
regards
Eduard
new user is EchoMike
 
Guest

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:06 am

No Rob, I didn't miss the point. The one I was making is that if you demand to much from these people REGARDLESS of the fact that they are in the wrong, they MAY refuse to pay and suggest you hire a lawyer. How many people on this site have the money to hire a foreign lawyer to pursue a copyright case such as this?

There is a point where the individual must decide whether to fight on or just take the offered money. There is no set point, it's all up to the individual. whilst our first reaction is always "take them for all you can get", this isnt' always the best move as they make take the stand to just wait the person out and see if they are willing to go to a lawyer, many are not. Remember, the threat of using a lawyer does not automatically force a company to cave it, it's a risky thing to do and sometimes it pays off and others it doesn't. If a person is genuinely willing to hire a lawyer and to pursue it to the end then that's cool too (I like to see copyright infringers get their comeuppance).

Public opinion here doesn't agree with my stand and that's OK by me as it really is up to the original poster to decide what he would like but he needs to be aware of the risks that's all.

I note he's set out his demands and I hope he gets what he is after, and hope he lets us know when it is resolved.






ADG
 
Guest

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:11 am

Man, don't give up!!!
one of the biggest newspapers from Switzerland had stolen something really RARE from YOU!!!!!!!!!!

If I were you, forgot about every other posibillity --> minnimum = 2000€ ! Or even more! You mustn't forget: Around 300 000 people or more saw your picture!!! You'll have to fight!!!

Good Luck anyway.
Greetings from ya neighbour.

Fl.Tr.
 
Guest

RE: Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")

Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:14 am

I finally got a response from the Polish online news agency that used Glenns picture, apparently their standard rate for image use is $5 US. No wonder they have to steal them!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy




ADG

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