N178UA
Topic Author
Posts: 1685
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:36 am

Hi all

Recently, I recieved a few tip off emails that BigBird400 company's JAL Disney Sea B747-400 model, used my Airliners.net picture.

Here is one of the picture of their box design



and to my Airliners photo


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



And it seems they also used another photographer's (Avibear) work without consent


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Avibear




The thing it makes me angry is, while your company making thousands of fortunes by making this die cast model, why don't even you bother send me an email to ask for permission? I think this is the worse way to do business and in a long run, such low practices will cost big time on the company

The question is, it seems I cannot find BigBird400 company's website. I heard they do model all without license and therefore no website, just through other model dealer's website to sell them out. Can anyone help or any suggestion? I doubt I can get anything back now.

Don't say I am greedy, if this kind of fraud happened on you, you should get mad too, the model is probably sell like a hot cake, but I get nothing  Sad

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:52 am

Sam--You are certainly NOT greedy. They took your image without permission and used it to make money. I think they would be a bit angry if you walked in and took 500 of their models and walked out the door with them!

Tony
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:57 am

LOL Tony!

Sam just figure out how to contact them, and send them a healthy invoice! I'd probably charge around a grand for something like this, but that might just be me.

-Dmitry
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:57 am

Hi,

My heart is sadden for you and the choices you need to make this situation right.

I think the fact you cant find them on the Net is reason enought to find a lawyer who specialize in do buisness searches and would send them a letter requesting a reasonable fee plus a penalty for not asking you first. I think under the situation nothing less than $1000.00 plus a royalty off of each sale after all it is going to be your images that attracts the consumer to the box.


I wish you the very best.

Regards
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:06 am

Sam,
We have a model shop here in Denver that sells tons of models like that. I will check the shop to see if they carry that specific manufacturer and see what I can find out. The store may only know how to contact the distributor, but you never know.

What a rip-off! I'll let you know as soon as I can.

v/r
Jeff
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:28 am

Sam,

I believe I may know the owner of this company. I need to check my sources first however, give me a couple of hours.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:36 am

You can get quite a lot of $$$ is you bust em' which you can! Trust me, that model WILL SELL OUT! I collect some diecast aircraft, and I can tell you, that one WILL SELL OUT.

Continental
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:28 pm

Jeff- Are you talking about Colpar Hobbie???

I love that store, all the aviation needs...
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:12 pm

Big Bird models in owned by Andrew Klein, the owner of Aeroclassics models and Collector's Aircraft Models Seattle. His website is http://www.norpac-cam.com. You can email him aklein@w-link.net.

Andrew Klein is a very shady businessman so I not only wish you the best of luck but also encourage you to charge him an arm and a leg. Not only did he use your pictures illegally, but he also makes these models without a license and then charges DOUBLE for them. Big Bird is a fake company name to hide the paper trail to his more reputable Aeroclassics brand.

[Edited 2003-02-28 08:16:42]
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:44 pm

Stick it to him!!

I can't stand scheisty mofos like that!!

 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:16 pm

I'm not suggesting that any of these photos are also used without the photographer's permission, but BigBird400 are making a habbit of using photographs that have also appeared on airliners.net for their box art...

BigBird400's Cathay Pacific model box art:


Jay Selman photo

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Selman



Bigbird400's JAL Disney Sea model box art:


Yosuke Kinoshita and Takuji Sohmura photo:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yosuke Kinoshita
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Takuji Sohmura - the airliner photo collection



Bigbird400's JAL Reso'cha model box art:


Ryan Kawailani Ozawa and Glenn Alderton's photo:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Kawailani Ozawa
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Alderton



Bigbird400's JAL Marine 767 box art:


Jean and Eddy Cuperus photo:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jean
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Photo © Eddy Cuperus


(I'm pretty sure Eddy's pic has been used and has been redone with different sky-scapes)

BigBird400's Australian 767 box art has also used the following photos, although I can't post a link to the art because the acronyms function on the a.net forums now messes up the link.

Dave Faulkner's and Roderick Eime photo:

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Photo © Dave Faulkner
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Roderick Eime



Please note that the guy who photographs the box art has nothing to do with BigBird400 - he's just a model collector who just photographs models for his website

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
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RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:17 pm

Guys, I sympathise with Sam entirely, and agree he should do something. However, could you PLEASE keep specific references to "shady businessmen" off the forum - there is a world of difference between "knowing" and "proving" and posting such allegations may well expose A.net to a lawsuit.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:03 am

Guys, I sympathise with Sam entirely, and agree he should do something. However, could you PLEASE keep specific references to "shady businessmen" off the forum - there is a world of difference between "knowing" and "proving" and posting such allegations may well expose A.net to a lawsuit.

Cheers,

Colin


I know where you are coming with this. However, it is widely known who the owner of Big Bird models is and it is widely known that some of his business practices are questionable.

http://www.wings900.com/vb/showthread.php?s=f51601d3507c76ad1e8789947e11db0e&threadid=12903

In this post, the owner of EZTOYZ, one of the world's largest retailers of these models clearly states who is the owner of this brand.

[Edited 2003-02-28 17:04:18]
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:07 am

Another two photos BigBird are using that have previously been loaded onto airliners.net...

BigBird400 ANA 767 Star Alliance box art:


Andrew Hunt and Sam Chui photos:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Tommy Mogren
Posts: 895
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RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:09 am

SAM,

Go get them!

I would never tolerate anybody stealing my work, so...
get what's yours!

Tommy Mogren
Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
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RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:42 am

You're gonna be making $$$ here!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Go get 'em!

DC-10
 
User avatar
clickhappy
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RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:18 am

I am going to take a drive by their offices tomorrow.
 
benyhone
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:48 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:24 am

Sam - you're going to face problems tracking them down. BigBird400 exists for the purpose of producing "unlicensed" models. So you can probably join JAL, Cathay Pacific, ANA, etc. in your hunt for the person who is liable ... since these models are unlicensed, the factory does everything possible to hide their existence & distribution.

And - you can't trust anything written on those message boards. That post listed above doesn't illustrate anything. Even though every clue may point to one well-known modelmaker or owner - I think you're going to have a hard time actually finding concrete evidence of who actually stole your photos. I hope you're successful, for photographers everywhere.

And - if anyone disagrees with them stealing photos, don't buy their models!!

Terry/PHX
Cactus Wings
Cactus Wings Photography, Phoenix
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:37 am

Best thing to do I reckon is start a world wide boycott of the product, point out the flaws, point out the places to buy the better and official products and so on. NEVER link to a site on the net that sells the product and when seeing someone advertise it in forums, respond with an eMail of all the reasons why people shouldn't support the company.

Won't get you any money, but will make you feel better  Smile




ADG
 
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
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RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:50 am

Very sorry to hear this.
INcluding the star alliance shot you've had 2 photos "stolen" and used without permission. Some businesses these days have no respect for the individuals who goes out to the airport and spend loads of time and money shooting planes at one in a million perfect timing conditions.

I call these businesses a$$holes.

I think the course of action you are taking is proper despite the capacity of this issue. Part of me is assuming that the other photos that this queer company used off a.net were not consulted with the photographers.
A fellow photographer I knew who shoots planes in Edmonton had his picture stolen by Dragonwings a few years back. Dragonwings! Geez that is a big company who makes millions of models and they stole his photo off airliners.net. It's sad really..
I went to the hobby shop at the airport to see hundreds of model plane boxes with his photo on as the cover. And guess what, they were nearly sold out about a week later.

I wish you best of luck, and I hope you get the compensation that you deserve.

B
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:55 am

AGG,

Just out of interest, was permission given to use that JAL Reso'cha picture?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:33 am

It's funny that EZTOYZ name has come up-I had never heard of them until this evening. I had a quick scan of the early part of this thread this afternoon and coincidentally got an email about an hour ago from Tamsin Zvereva about the following webpages:

http://www.eztoyz.com/cgi-bin/cart/cart.pl?db=collectibles.dat&category=StarJets200

http://www.eztoyz.com/graphics/starjets/dj014.jpg

Check out the BD320 on that page, you ight have seen it before......


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Willmott-Sharp



I haven't had time to look again at all of this thread as it's late and I have an early start tomorrow. After I get back from work (+Myrtle Ave probably!) I'll look into it in more detail.

So who do I chase? 'Starjets' who I presume are the guys who produce the models, or EZTOYZ since it is their website?

Regards,


Matt

you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
N178UA
Topic Author
Posts: 1685
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:37 am

thanks for all the suggestion and replies.

I have made an attempt to email this "almost certain" BigBird owner who have shop out of Seattle and I knew this person before back to 1999.

His basic replies is bitter and cold tone stating contrary to popular believe , "I have nothing to do with it, my shop sell their model, but I do not run that company"

Terry(Benyhone) is correct, his deny and with currently no other good clue, have left me stranded in this case. All models are unlicensed, and all distribution are hidden, although I know it can possibly get hold of the model in Hong Kong market.

Now, I am not even try to ask a good amount of money, but more of a appology and explanations and hope they can change their way of practice, to give real credit to the photographers. I do not think such case will let me be rich or make anything...

I also face the problem of lawsuit, as I am from Australia, this BigBird company seems is an off shoot company from US, models made in China. It involves Int'l law? I have no time or no effort to devote into this. I doubt I will get anything now.

I am also very interested to see Glenn's JAL Reshocha shot on the model box, have you get any contacts from them? If so, please let me know.

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:58 am

Sam,

I'm afraid you are going to be out of luck. Mr. Klein is indeed the owner of this "company" as not only evidenced by the fact that everyone on DAC knows he is but also the fact that the models are made on his molds. However, Big Bird was set up just to make unlicensed models and therefore there is NO paper trail.

This is exactly why I refuse to purchase ANY of his products. I think other members should do the same.
 
benyhone
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:48 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:05 am

Sam,
You want to "confront" Andrew, EZtoyz, and whoever else is involved with these models? All of them were at the LAX collectibles show back on 01Feb. The next show is 21Jun ... I'm sure they will all be there again! Maybe at least you (or someone) can bring this problem to light.

Also - maybe someone should cross-post Sam's complaint over on DAC, Wings900, and Airlinebuzz.com. The unlicensed models were fun for a while, but stealing photos has got to STOP.

Terry/PHX
Cactus Wings
Cactus Wings Photography, Phoenix
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:14 am

Andy,

No permission has been given for the use of Glenns images for the packaging of these products.

:-( yet another victim of a barnacle of the backside of society.

The only way to catch the attention of people like this is to bad their product and their method of selling. If they are at a show, then a few of you living in that locality should print out some letters by those who's images have been stolen and go confront them in front of potential customers.

They sell on the net, target those who sell their products. It's what I will be doing from now on  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Indeed, if they are selling "grey market" products selling them into countries such as mine is a breach of the law and the law does act upon these people (i've seen them swoop and snatch the product). You can remind people that if the authorities search & seize then they lose the stock, not the person they bought it from.

Just be generally irritating, it will probably be more fun than actually getting the money.





ADG
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:54 am

Well seems that one person here has a real 'bug' up his a** concerning Andrew Klein (do I smell a Tucano/Herpa supporter?). So, Nasa737, do you have actual verifiable, indisputable evidence that A.K. is the founder and owner of Big/BiggerBird models? Or like so many others (present company included) you are merely ASSUMING that A.K. is the owner of said company? I know and have done business with Andrew in the past and frankly he does not strike me in the slightest as the type that would risk to his reputation and Aeroclassics by producing unlicensed models. Andrew has already stated in an e-mail (via Sam) that his models and BB are indeed produced in the same factory and his shop in Seattle indeed sells BBs. He has also stated that in no way shape or form is he affiliated with the production or distribution of BB models, nor has he invested any resources into BB. After speaknig to Sam via e-mail and doing some additional followups I believe that Andrew is innocent of these accusations.

Your comment "Andrew Klein is a very shady businessman" is nothing more than an un-educated slanderous statement based on no hard evidence merely heresay. I would hazard to guess that 99% of those that have conducted business with Andrew would concur that there is NOTHING shady about Andrew Klien and his business practices! I will continue purchasing Aeroclassics.



Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Moose
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:09 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:42 am

Very well said Thomas. AK is a good person and honest businessman. Manufacturing and selling diecast isn't even his primary business interest. There is no need to slander a man who is in the business primarily because of his love for aviation.
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:59 am


if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's most likely a duck.

The fact that you can link him directly to the sale of the planes and the fact that he knows that they're a dodgy business but he sells their rubbish anyway is good enough for me.





ADG
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:15 pm

So, Nasa737, do you have actual verifiable, indisputable evidence that A.K. is the founder and owner of Big/BiggerBird models?

They are his moulds. That is undisputed. Therefore, he is either (a) the owner or (b) license someone else to use the moulds. In either case, he is the only direct link to these models. I have met Andrew Klein, Dan Asher, and a bunch of the other folks "big in the business." There is NO dispute who owns this brand.

And I am not in any way shape or form affiliated with Tucano, nor would I want to be with the crap that they put out.

[Edited 2003-03-01 04:29:45]
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:29 pm

Here are some quotes taken from other forums.



Andrew Klein:
It would have been more appropriate for eztoyz/sleazyboyz not to announce Big Bird products until they were released, especially since they are not even an authorised Big Bird dealer!

Response from KAM at EZTOYZ.com

Dear Mr. Klein,
With respect!
I don't know how producing models by Aeroclassics & BigBirds which you are involved apparently doesn't need getting any license but selling those models needs your authorization!
eztoyz will continue to carry any brand as long as there are collectors' demand & I honestly don't think a small unauthorized producer have the right to dictates us what we can carry & what to sell.

Regards
Kam
Eztoyz.com

PS: Sorry we did not get your permission to carry Claudio's Tucano & Andy Andersons' Pixelport products!


Andrew Klein (BIG BIRD will be releasing a few UPS 767's)
Good to know! Since we will not be importing the UPS models to the US, I'll be sure where to direct UPS's lawyers when the inevitable inquiries are made!





Andrew Klein Responding to a new model from another brand
Yes, it is more OVERPRICED JUNK from Tucano/Golden Wings!
As Big Bird will release this same model soon, I'll save my hard earned money and wait for the lower priced, superior model BB makes!




Andrew Klein
Big Bird 400 will release according to it's own agenda, what the true collectors want, irrespective of what an irrelevant Tucano does.




I could go on. The fact remains that if he denies that he is the owner of such company, then he sure as hell knows alot about them and he sure as hell is their distributor.




[Edited 2003-03-01 04:35:04]
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:33 pm

That's your opinion, ADG and your entitled to it. However let me ask you this, what about all of the other shops that sell BB's (and there are quite a few) are they guilty as well?

Personally, while I do not plan any purchases of these models and I would strongly encourage others (especially photographers) to boycott BB's, I am not prepared to abandon Andrew who has worked very hard bringing Aeroclassics to the forefront of this hobby based on pure speculation. Show me proof that Andrew is the owner and founder of BB and responsible for the theft of these pics, then we will talk. At this point however based on my personal experience with Andrew, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
N178UA
Topic Author
Posts: 1685
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:34 pm

Speaking of Mr Klein, I remember when I was in his shop in Seattle, I witnessed he have some dispute with customers, and on the old Wings500 chat room, that a lot of people have dispute and argument, even mockery on him.....If he said BigBird have nothing to do, then I either have to trust him or to find another piece of evidance. I cannot lead to any conclusion of the matter from his email reply, he can say anything he want to say, I am emailing nicely to him to ask about BigBird and the photo violation. But so far I have at least 5+ email to me, most believe it is Mr. Klein. but this is of course, unconfirmed as Thomas said.

I don't want to make an opinion on his personality, that came second, I want justice, but since BirBird and whoever that is behind this are doing unlicensed stuff and no paper trail, I think this is probably a no go case.

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:39 pm

Thomas and N178UA...

I agree... everything reguarding Big Bird and Andrew is circumstantial, but at one point so many coincidences and circumstances become too many not to believe. The retailers are equally as quilty. Its sad because in the end, the only brand who has any business ethics is Herpa which also happens to have the worst models.
 
N178UA
Topic Author
Posts: 1685
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:49 pm

In a few days time, I will try to write emails to JAL, JALways, ANA and others try to notify them BB model violation. I am not going to get anything, but I hate those model maker without acquire a proper license. It is just like a robber or thief. I am not going to ask anything for those tiny 2 pic they used on me, I am fed up with this kind of unlicense practice, whether with success or not, I am going to report them to the airlines.

NASA737, yes, Herpa have the ethics, I still collecting them and Gemini,I haven't bought one unlicensed release and I won't even think about to buy any of those even the very attractive, BB, Tucano and other chicken and duck made brand. I have a collection over 800 1:400/500 models (DW/HW/GJ)

For other collectors, if you are reading this, I suggest you to boycott those unlicensed models made by those shabby company. They are unlicensed, and most of the time I notice the paint job on the model is rough, inaccurate and unacceptable. Because of many collector's unawareness, it allowed those unlicensed model to keep flow around, using airline, artist, photographer's design without a payment, showing absolutly no respect and this is definity inappropriate. For once I am quite pissed on this.

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:53 pm

In a few days time, I will try to write emails to JAL, JALways, ANA and others try to notify them BB model violation. I am not going to get anything, but I hate those model maker without acquire a proper license. It is just like a robber or thief.

There is no point. In the US you cannot be charge with trademark infringement unless you produce more then 500 of the item. Ever wonder why these models are "LIMITED EDITIONS."
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Model Use My Picture But Without Permission:(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:55 pm

Look guys we are getting off track here. This is after all a 'photo forum' and I am certain that many here could care less about the politics of model collecting.

Nasa, if you want to contact me and argue the finer points of Andrew's business practices then my e-mail is in my profile.

Sam,

I still have some feelers out on BB, hopefully I might come up with some info later on this weekend.

Bottom line Sam's (and others) photos were taken without permission and no form of compensation was offered and this pisses me off to no end. Sadly, just what we can do about this is very little as this company seems to operate outside the boundaries the law. As suggested we can begin a campaign of organizing a boycott all of BB's product line until they either pony up some cash and or cease to function.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
N178UA
Topic Author
Posts: 1685
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:00 pm

Nasa737

I don't care whether those model made 1, or 500 or unlimited and the law works or not, I am going to report them to the airline. Those model makers who knew they're wrong in EVERY way and then made the model without license. I don't care what the airline will do or just act ignore, I am going to bring this matter to their attention, because not just BB are doing this, many others are too and who knows in the future how many unlicensed fancy model will be around. I am doing this for the good of the model hobby.

End of story.

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:04 pm

I am doing this for the good of the model hobby.


I agree! And I'll stand right behind you.
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:26 pm

Could anyone with a little more insight into the die-cast model scene give me an idea about 'Starjets', are they responsible for the copyright infringement or do I go for Eztoyz-and is it gonna be worth the chase?

Regards,


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:33 pm

I believe the fault here lies with EZTOYZ.. they just used your picture because they didn't have one of the model. Your pic isn't used on Starjets website. (http://www.starjets.com)
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:42 pm

Matt,

Your problem is nothing to do with Starjets - its Eztoyz, a model shop in San Diego. Eztoyz have done this before, some time ago. They were told, they were warned, photographers got in touch with them, they stopped. It seems like they've restarted their old and dodgy practices again. They will be aware of what you are on about if you contact them - remind them that they did this before and agreed to stop.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/12495/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/14292/

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Guest

Aeroclassics

Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:26 am

Thomasphoto

You seem to be defending Aeroclassics (correct me if I am wrong) in that they do not produce unlicenced models.

This is untrue.

One need only look at his Cubana models. As far as I am aware, it is illegal for Americans to do business (sign contracts) with Cuban businesses under whatever law is in place. For Aeroclassics to have a licence to make Cubana Tu-154 models, he would have to sign a contract with Cubana to do so, in which case, he would be breaking American law. In which case, those "patriotic" Americans among you should be reporting him to the authorities.

Also, I might add that his Aeroflot models are not licenced either. I know this for a fact, as I have been looking into doing a small range of models up in conjunction with a Russian based company, and only airlines for which a licence could be obtained would be made. And I have it on excellent authority from Aeroflot that Aeroclassics has NOT been granted a licence by Aeroflot Soviet Airlines, Aeroflot Russian International Airlines or Aeroflot Russian Airlines representatives in Moscow. (US offices of Aeroflot have no authority to grant such things, as they have to get permission from the Aeroflot legal department in Moscow ultimately anyway).

Further evidence this model has not been licenced, is visible in this photo:



It is were indeed licenced by Aeroflot, he would have had to submit this to Aeroflot for approval, and they would not have approved this, because it is missing:

Russian
International
Airlines

directly "behind" the Aeroflot lettering on the fuselage.

Aeroflot have been extremely picky in this regard concerning most of their materials.

So Aeroclassics aren't as "above board" as some people are believing. But then again, most model manufacturers are inherrently guilty of unlicenced products and breach of international copyright laws.
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:22 am

Thanks for the advice, I've mailed them and included an invoice.

In the meantime here are just some of the images I found-and I only looked at a few pages of their site.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ito Noriyuki



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eric Phan



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralf Langer



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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Millard



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Kellerman



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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philippe Gindrat




Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
flyby
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2001 11:33 am

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:24 am



I checked again & noticed eztoyz already changed the picture of some of those! no more problem with them! in the past also their response was very good & fair!
I know that some of those pictures were posted with permission of the photographer



[Edited 2003-03-01 18:51:49]
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:41 am

Here is their reply:

"Hello Mathew,

Greeting

The picture was emailed by one of our customers to give us an idea for
the
actual airliner & was posted there by mistake through web-master, how
ever
we did remove the picture as soon as we noticed the picture does not
belong
to the sender of the picture.
Any how we can credit you $40.00 toward any purchase from eztoyz.com,
but
I'll appreciate you post on the same place & forum that your matter was
re-solved with eztoyz.com.

Regards
Eztoyz.com


I guess $40 is better than nothing, but $40 credit against something from their site is hardly anything to get excited about.


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:00 am

Actually Matt,

Despite that I have little love of EZToyz and their questionable history, they did indeed contact me and paid for use of the Air Canada A319 photo. Which quite frankly caught be quite by surprise as their reputation suggested otherwise.

Aviatsyia,

You bring up some interesting points, as I do hot have the CU TU154, I really can not comment on it but I do have the SU 767 and I see what you are hinting at. I have no sincere answer for this, though I did read a comment somewhere that one does not need permission from a so called 'state operated' carrier like Cubana or Iraqi (GJ's 742 might fall into this), then again that might just be a bunch of B.S. Indeed I have bought 'unlicensed' models in the past DW's QF WANALA and others and I will probably buy such models in the future. What stuck up my crawl is the illegal use of someone else's work by a company that does not appear to be accountable, i.e. no address, ph# , e-mail, ect.....

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:17 pm

That's your opinion, ADG and your entitled to it. However let me ask you this, what about all of the other shops that sell BB's (and there are quite a few) are they guilty as well?

Yes, I have spent much of the weekend tracking down distributors and making them aware of the behaviour of the manufacturer. If they choose to continue selling the product then they can expect me to include them in a list of people NOT to purchase from. I've already started and will continue this until I get bored with it.

Personally, while I do not plan any purchases of these models and I would strongly encourage others (especially photographers) to boycott BB's, I am not prepared to abandon Andrew who has worked very hard bringing Aeroclassics to the forefront of this hobby based on pure speculation.

So you think that his good work should cancel out the fact that he knowingly distributes a product that uses stolen artwork for it's packaging? I think the opposite. If he wants to support a company like that then he deserves anything that he gets. Morality is more important than profits. He should dump the product (assuming of course that he is not affiliated with it and I suspect that he is).

Show me proof that Andrew is the owner and founder of BB and responsible for the theft of these pics, then we will talk. At this point however based on my personal experience with Andrew, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

So you'll overlook the fact that he supports and markets the Big Bird product? How about the comments above where he attacks the competitor products? That in itself is enough in my books to label him as a skank who deserves no support. If a retailer needs to attack a competitor product it's a clear indication that their own product is inferior, that's simple logic.

By the way, I know of a photographer who has emailed this person regarding these products who has not received a response from him. If he truly had nothing to do with the company wouldn't he have sent an email saying so? Ignoring an eMail is an inference of guilt.

Matt,

They have no right to offer you a credit, you have every right to receive payment. Their *excuse* that it was inadvertantly posted there is simply that, an excuse. The simple fact is that they used your image without permission and as such they are responsible to pay the fee YOU set.

If you are happy with the $40 tell them to send a cheque, otherwise tell them to credit you with enough money to actually purchase something off their site.





ADG
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Sun Mar 02, 2003 11:25 pm

ADG,

You know, I really like your determination. When you get your teeth into a subject, you rarely let go. I have noticed this on other forums as well.

As to your replies to my remarks.

Well as for condoning Andrew's support (sales and distribution) of BB and their poor business practices, personally I am wrestling with this issue at the moment myself. I would hope that Andrew either distances himself from BB (cease US distribution) as I believe that his close association with this questionable firm might just blow up in his face or have a long talk on how to conduct oneself in the business world. It is my hope that as a result of this ugliness and with pressure from Andrew, as I believe he did not fully apperciate the ramifications of BB's actions and our wrath, that BB (with a lot of pressure from Mr.Klein) will think twice before pulling another pic off of A.Net.

All that said, if in future photos are still being stolen from this site (or any other site for that matter) and saw no evidence BB changing it's ways, well with a great deal of regret I would probably have to cease buying Aeroclassics as well. This is something that I definetly DO NOT want to do as AC's are an intergal part of my collection. If Andrew does happen to read this I would ask that he has a serious heart to heart with BB and try to convince them to behave in a more respectable business like manner.

It should be noted Dragon Wings (DW) has also pulled this type of stunt a little over a year back when they produced a FedEx MD11 (Panda) and the photo used was taken by an A.Net shooter (I believe that it was Michael Carter, though I am not 100% certain).

Regarding Andrew's slow repsonse, well he rarely replies to my e-mails and I am a regular customer. Keep in mind that is spends most of his time on the road, mainly in East Asia and Russia.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Guest

RE: Model Use My Picture But Without Permission :(

Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:02 pm

You know, I really like your determination. When you get your teeth into a subject, you rarely let go. I have noticed this on other forums as well.

Relevance? Image theft is a personal bugbear of mine, i'm sure you can understand that.

Well as for condoning Andrew's support (sales and distribution) of BB and their poor business practices, personally I am wrestling with this issue at the moment myself.

As any moral person would.

It is my hope that as a result of this ugliness and with pressure from Andrew, as I believe he did not fully apperciate the ramifications of BB's actions and our wrath, that BB (with a lot of pressure from Mr.Klein) will think twice before pulling another pic off of A.Net.

It's not enough, payment should be made to the photographers who have had their work stolen. It's a simple concept really. I'm sure the BB people wouldn't like it if we did the snatch & grab on their models, and yet they do exactly the same to the photographers. People like that make me really cranky.

All that said, if in future photos are still being stolen from this site (or any other site for that matter) and saw no evidence BB changing it's ways, well with a great deal of regret I would probably have to cease buying Aeroclassics as well.

We all must make our own decisions. I would suggest that everyone stop purchasing NOW. That sends a very distinct message that we, the consumer, are not happy campers. What he decides to do at that point will be the decider of what happens in the future.

This is something that I definetly DO NOT want to do as AC's are an intergal part of my collection.

I don't have a single one, nor do I have any BB's. Neither of whom will be added to my collection until this issue is resolved one way or another. I have 21 diecast models so far and add to the collection from time to time. I'm a small consumer but I will take a moral stand on things I feel very strongly about.

If Andrew does happen to read this I would ask that he has a serious heart to heart with BB and try to convince them to behave in a more respectable business like manner.

Alternatively he can pass on the contact details for the BB people and drop their product off his site and suddenly his problems go away. In fact he'd become a person of good repute that people would be pleased to buy from.

It should be noted Dragon Wings (DW) has also pulled this type of stunt a little over a year back when they produced a FedEx MD11 (Panda) and the photo used was taken by an A.Net shooter (I believe that it was Michael Carter, though I am not 100% certain).

Whaaaaaaaaaaa? feck.

Regarding Andrew's slow repsonse, well he rarely replies to my e-mails and I am a regular customer. Keep in mind that is spends most of his time on the road, mainly in East Asia and Russia.

Sounds like an excuse. I keep in contact with our customers whereever I am .. (gotta love the technology).





ADG

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