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Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:24 am

OK I have been waiting for a good side by side comparison of the D60 and D100. Here are two shots, one taken by Joe Pries with his D60 and one by Art Brett with his D100. Now to me the D100 shot looks much better, but someone suggested that Art might spend more time in post shooting processing. Maybe Art and Joe and upload some raw .jpgs prior to any adjustments?

Canon D60


Nikon D100


 
LGW
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:33 am

Can't really be a fair comparison because they are shot with different lenses

What settings on both?

I prefur the Canon one by look. Reg on the D100 shot a bit over sharpened (done by brett? or out of camera?)

Colours and contrast look a litle 'harsh' to me on the Nikon.

This doesnt make me want to buy a Nikon Big grin

Ben Pritchard
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:35 am

Well I dont know what kind of lenses Art uses, but I know Joe uses expensive fast glass (nothing but the best for Joe).
 
ckw
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:39 am

Interesting, and to an extent this is going to be a matter of personal preference, but of the two images presented, I would say that at first glance the D100 has more "punch", but on closer inspection, this comes at a price - look for example at the landing gear - the D60 has preserved significantly more shadow detail, and overall, I'd say the tones are smoother.

Having said that, I'm sure very different results could be achieved with variations in processing.

Cheers,

Colin
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:45 am

Art uses the Nikon 80-400VR.

Joe's pic looks classic smooth Canon. Art's is slightly less smooth, but it could be because Joe's hasn't been sharpened quite as much as Art's. I'd also be interested to know what both guys have done in terms of mucking about with the colour levels etc.

Either way, I suspect with a few minutes playing you could get both pretty much the same.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:56 am

I would say that the D100 looks better. I like that sharper look and the colors seem better.
 
Carlos Borda
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:04 am

Joe is notoriously lazy when it comes to Photoshop... he does the least amount of work on his images due to time constraints (he claims he's way to busy to put more effort into them). He might put 1-2 minutes work into an image whereas others might put 5-10 minutes into an image. I'm sure Art put some more effort and pride into his to give it that "punch" that Colin described. Personally I think Art's image has a nicer visual kick to it, but I'm quite sure that if both raw images were processed by the same individual the results would be very identical.

~Los

Andy writes:

>>I'd also be interested to know what both guys have done in terms of mucking about with the colour levels etc.

Either way, I suspect with a few minutes playing you could get both pretty much the same.>>
 
cabbott
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:10 am

Looking at the Canon one you can see the soft image as described in detail in another topic.

The D100 image looks just fine to me!

I wish I had the money but for now the heating and the rent needs paying. Now if only 50 of us got together and bulk ordered the Canon or Nikon, just think about how much saving we could make!.

Colin
 
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Scooter
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:14 am

This comparison doesn't mean much if we can't see the source files! Post processing can help an image just as it can hurt it.

Let's see the originals!
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing trip reports.
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:16 am

That's not a fair comparison, both pictures have post processing by two different persons.

I prefer the D100 photo but I know the D60 can be improved.

Luis
P.S. Ben, you're being very pro Canon lately...
 
Staffan
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:20 am

As they look now, I prefer the Nikon, I think the softness of the Canon makes it less appealing to look at compared to the Nikon. But as said, it's probably down to processing.

Staffan
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:44 am

I'm glad some folks can see a bit of softness in that Canon image.

Firstly, the Canon image looks slightly soft in comparison to the Nikon, but would you notice it was soft it you saw just the Canon image in isolation? Remember this topic when you get your next badsoft rejection! Big grin

Secondly, probably best if Joe doesn't upload his image as is, eh? See references to softness and rejection above! Big grin Big grin Big grin

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ckw
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:31 am

The only thing that matters here is which image has the most information - if Art hasn't thrown something away in his processing choices, then the D60 has more raw material to work with - put it this way, 5 minutes with Photoshop could make Joe's shot look like Art's, but there's nothing could be done to restore the shadow detail Joe's shot has.

Cheers,

Colin
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JeffM
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:14 am

Hey, I like 'em both. Well done guys! Nice shots of the Mallard.

Jeff
 
aagold
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:11 am

Wow, did this one take me by surprise. Joe and I talked yesterday about doing a RAW comparison between the D60 and D100, but it was suppose to be on a 744 we shot in the morning at JFK. How'd Richard get Joe's image so fast ... it isn't on A.net.

First, let me say ... don't look at the picture embedded in this note. It's terrible looking. Look at the original on A.net.

Look at this image instead (scroll right to the link)...
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett



How you'll get Joe's original (that is, post processed) image I don't know unless he posts it.

My picture was shot with a Nikkor 80-400mm VR zoom, full out, 500th of a second, f10 (shot on shutter speed preferred), white balance to Direct Sunlight, ISO 200 (because it's the lowest we've got on the D100), no other compensation factors used at all.

Now, several of you pointed out that my picture "has more punch" and "nicer visual kick." Well, both of those comments come from the contrast of the picture. No doubt about it, I like a picture that has more contrast and believe it gives it that added kick.

How I processed the picture:

Converted from RAW to JPG excellent quality. I cropped it from 3008 (of which the aircraft was about 1700 pixels) to get the final composition I wanted. Resampled to 1024 x 680. Then I applied the Auto Equalize (Corel, same as auto levels) which, for this picture, was all it needed to give it that punch, or the contrast I was looking for.

About the sharpening. I did apply unsharp mask, but I can't tell you how much or how many times I might have applied it. I have to admit, I just keep playing and changing the settings until I get it the way I want. I think this one was relatively easy and quick to do.

Now, about the shadow details in the landing gear. From the two shots above they look pretty much the same to me, but my applying the contrast I want (through auto equalize) would definitely get rid of some of that shadow detail. As for the landing gear detail (see picture below) I think the detail is there. The fact that it didn't remain after post processing was my choice and nothing to do with the camera.

OK, I'll bite ... here's the converted image JPG excellent quality for everyone to scrutinize ... NOW it's up to Joe to upload his image so we can all see once and for all. Mind you, not that it's going to change anyone's mind!



Oh, btw, Joe, it's an ERJ  Big grin

Art
 
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JeffM
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:38 am

Sweet Art! Looks like you got a few dust spots to blow away?

Question, did you use a converter on that shot? I like the angle. Oh, and I like the extra "punch" as well.

Jeff
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:45 am

Mine was shot with 2x converter.
File: CRW_6072.CRW
File size: 5,549KB
Image Serial Number: 260-6072
Camera Model: Canon EOS D60
Camera serial number: 0320301092
Firmware: Firmware Version 1.0.0
Date/Time: 2003.03.21 16:11:30
Shutter speed: 1/500 sec
Aperture: 9.0
Exposure mode: Tv
Exposure compensation: -1/3
Flash: Off
Metering mode: Evaluative
Drive mode: Continuous frame: 1
ISO: 100
Lens: 140.0 to 400.0 mm
Focal length: 400.0 mm
Subject distance: 50 m
AF mode: One-shot AF
Focus point: [Left + Center + Right]
Image size: 3072 x 2048
Orientation: 1
Image quality: Raw
White balance: Auto
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Contrast: Normal
Custom Functions:
CFn 4: Tv/Av and exposure level: 1/3 stop




 
EGGD
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:19 am

ok,

From the large size images, I'll say this (and I'm a Canon owner it hurts). Art's 3000 pixel shot is sharper, and there seems to be less noise (check the sky).

However, for me, the best post-processed shot is Joe's. Art's is more contrasty and you lose alot of shadow detail with that, and it also appears to be a little over-sharpened. Look at the right wing, very distorted IMO  Smile.

Good shots though...
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:32 am

Dan,
keep in mind that a 2x converter, used at full 640mm- thats the ultimate test especially compared to a lens with no conversion added. This is an extreme and thats fine, still though i'll take my D60 shot over any other any day. CMOS is the only way i know when it comes to dslr.

Joe
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:30 pm

I have to say I like Art's shot better - the color, sharpness, etc is very nice!

-Dmitry
 
aagold
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:05 pm

I've got to admit ... I'm surprised. After hearing Joe talk (and talk and talk) about that CMOS chip for so long I fully expected his RAW image to be better than mine, but I don't think it is. Mine appears sharper to me and with a bit more contrast (look at the pilot in the window, Joe's is less detailed than mine). Could be differences introduced because Joe is using the converter and also stopped down 1/3 of a stop. Don't know, but right now I think the D100, which by the way Joe stands for DELIGHTFUL 100!, shot is much better than the D60. Ya gotta love that D100!

Yes, some dust spots that are proving hard to remove. I've got to clean it again. I've only cleaned it once and don't believe I did it good enough.

Also, no coverter. Straight shot with the 80-400 zoom.

And, Joe, it's still an ERJ Big grin  Big grin

Art
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:08 pm

Damn Joe, looks like we clicked the shutter at the exact same moment and we weren't even trying with this shot to get an identical one. We were too happy that the pilot gave us such a wonderful angle for shooting to think about comparing the D60 to the D100.

Art
 
LGW
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:59 pm

By looking at Joe's settings I see he uses contrast = Normal. I use +1 on contrast. So maybe his contrast issue would be better if the setting was on contrast + 1.

I have to say that there is nothing wrong with the D100 and it looks OK to me.

But 2 things,

1) I am biased and for me to say I prefur a Nikon shot it has to be pretty darn amazing!

and

2) I honestly prefur the D60 shot, I have copied them both into PS7 and I fiond it easier and more forgiving when editing the D60 shot

Joe, you havent got anything to worry about  Smile

and finally

"P.S. Ben, you're being very pro Canon lately..."

 Innocent, only lately? Big grin

Ben Pritchard
 
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RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:11 pm

Well, without any prejudice (honestly, even though I'm a Canon user)...

  • I find it interesting that the Nikon has failed to pick up the subtle cloud cover in the sky below the airplane - in the Canon image, there are some very soft clouds evident whilst you'd almost believe the sky was clear blue in the Nikon picture

  • Having seen the camera output, I actually prefer the colours produced by the Canon too - they seem stronger. My honest opinion now is that Art pumped up the colours on the Nikon picture that we were first shown at the top of this topic, whereas Joe's first image is much as it came out of the camera

  • Contrast around the flight deck window is down to minor differences in vantage point. Notice how the bright area is more spread and slightly more muted on the Nikon image than on the Canon image where the sun flare on the nose is more pronounced

  • The Nikon image is clearly sharper out of the camera. I notice that Joe is using "Normal" sharpness in camera and I'd be interested to know what setting Art uses. None the less, there's reasons for the softness and a quick USM on the Canon picture brings it at least up to Nikon standard


  • Bottom line though on this is - who gives a stuff? Both these cameras seem capable of delivering fine images, both out of the box and with some minor photoshopping.

    Andy

    PS: I think you were both cheating. You should shoot the things full frame, rather than muck around cropping images down to almost half frame. Of course, I never do that sort of thing  Innocent Seriously, both images show how good a result can be obtained from a 6mp sensor, illustrating neatly the fact that for web-images 6mp is way more than enough.
    There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
     
    N178UA
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:40 pm

    I just can't be happier than tonight, with Art's photo from that D100  Big grin Looks super to me!!

    I found that I have firmware 2.0 on my D100, I can simply shoot jpeg Fine (L) and no problem, with the sharpness (I have it always on auto sharpening). I don't see much difference of the sharpness of the Jpeg fine compare to NEF on my D100 to be honest.. Anyone can explain???

    I am not sure why the blue sky looks smoother on Art, while not so smooth on Joe's ? Is this the noise level we talk about? My camera setting is "off" on noise reduction.

    Also, Jeff, I have my camera cleaned, but those dust spot still there, the guy cleanded my camera have professional equipment, and saw the sensor through the very powerful maginfied glass, seems no dust left there, but I still get them on my shots and need to do cloning everytime which is real pain. I think those dark spot are in the focusing screen?? Not sure, can you think about something please??

    Sam--D100 Yeah!
    For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
     
    jettrader
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:22 pm


    Hi folks,

    For what it's worth, those files can't really offer a fair comparison because the D100 image file size (5.2Mb) is some 20 times larger than the D60 file (270k) which tells me the D60 image is compressed...a lot. This probably accounts for the noise in the sky.

    Looking at the two images my first impression was that the D100 result is much better. I was, to be honest, horrified to see the noise in the D60 shot, because I konw this is absolutely not representative of D60 output.

    As often happens in these comparisons you end up not really comparing like with like. Sure, the D100 looks better here (my opinion (sorry Joe!)...and I have a D60 for goodness sake) but this is not a true reflection of D60 output.

    Just something else to consider... Smile/happy/getting dizzy

    Cheers,
    Dean
    Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
     
    yevgeny
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:48 pm

    Ok Dean D-60 File size is: 5,549KB

    Yevgeny
     
    EGGD
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:04 am

    Very good point Joe. You always lose quality with a teleconverter (as I found out with my B-300), whereas Art's was taken just with his 80-400mm VR lens. I knew there was an excuse somewhere!! Big grin.

    Still, they are both excellent shots and excellent results.

    Cheers

    Dan
     
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:16 am

    Dan,

    Don't try to confuse matters! A Canon extender (several hundred dollars) is not the same as a tuppeny-hapenny converter. I strongly suspect that Joe's 70-200 F2.8L plus 2x extender is capable of almost as good as, possibly even good as, Art's 80-400VR.

    Andy
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    jettrader
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:24 am


    Yevgeny,

    Don't confuse what the camera tells you about the size of the RAW file (5,549KB as you correctly point out) and the size of the JPEG file Joe uploaded somewhere...size about 270k - just right click on the image and 'Save as...'

    Regards,
    Dean

    Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
     
    EGGD
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:57 am

    Ah yes that too Dean, as Joe's pic is still 3000x and is only 280kb, There's a huge amount of compression right there, and thus a huge loss of detail..

    ah well.
     
    aagold
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:05 am

    OK, Joe, what happened here. I thought you were going to upload the converted RAW file not a compressed file. Let's see the original converted file.

    Andy, interesting point about subtle cloud cover. I've looked at all my original shots and no hint of clouds and I don't even remember any subltle cloud cover when we shot the pic. Yes, I pumped up the color a bit with the auto equalize in Corel, but look at the original images. The colors are more crisp out of the D100, the whites are whiter and the other colors look better too! As far as the sun glare I'm not sure. Could just be because of a split second difference between when we actually shot the pic. As far as sharpness setting in the camera it's set to Auto, as is the Tone setting and Noise Reduction is set to off. Oh, Andy, we would of needed to walk on water to get this aircraft full frame at LGA, and the water still a bit cold for that this time of year!

    Sam, I'm still with the original firmware and have not updated to the 2.0 yet. As far as the dust spots. I have cleaned them and they don't disappear. I'm thinking of taking it in for a cleaning myself. I'll let you know what happens when I get it done.

    Interesting point about a comparison full frame from Andy ... Joe, are you up to the challenge?

    Oh, Joe, the damn thing is still an ERJ!

    Art

     
    EGGD
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    RE: Canon D60 Vs Nikon D100 Comparison

    Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:12 am

    hey Andy that thing cost me £200!!!

    They told me it was the best  Sad.

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