Staffan
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Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 12:34 am

What would you get, a used Sigma 70-200/2.8 or a new Canon 70-200/4. The sigma is a little cheaper, but is it as sharp or sharper than the Canon?
I'm not bothered by the extra stop on the Sigma, optical quality is more important.

Also, has anyone here got shots taken with the 70-200/4 and a 1.4x or 2x extender? Does it work fine with the convertors? Are there any qality converters available for the Sigma?

Thanks!

Staffan
 
ckw
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 12:39 am

The Canon 70-200 is a very, very sharp lens even wide open - matches or exceeds many primes in sheer optical quality - no problem with Canon convertors, but these are pretty pricey ... I wouldn't vouch for using it with 3rd party convertors.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 1:03 am

If your using Canon equipment, I'd stick with Canon. However, I've shot with Sigma and it's the only brand other than Canon I trust. I guess you have to figure out what your priority is. If it's money, go with the Sigma. If it's quality, go with the Canon.

Brian - SPOT THIS!
 
Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 1:09 am

Both are within the budget, so quality is the main thing here. I take it from your replies that the canon is the sharper one?

Staffan
 
jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 2:21 am

The Sigma one is an excellent alternative. Many professionals use it because it brings the same optical quality as the Nikon or Canon f/2.8 70-200 and 80-200 lenses at a lower price.

Brian's just a bit snobbish Staffan  Smile
I don't have the 70-200 Sigma, but it's high on my to-get list. I'll be getting it instead of the Nikon 80-200 f/2.8 AF-S (which is said to be the very best lens in its class on the market) and I don't expect it to be enough worse to see the results unless on huge (A-3 sized and larger) enlargements.
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joe pries
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 2:30 am

The Sigma one is an excellent alternative. Many professionals use it because it brings the same optical quality as the Nikon or Canon f/2.8 70-200 and 80-200 lenses at a lower price.
===========

you learn something new every day  Big grin
 
airsnaps
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 3:41 am

Hi Staffan,

I'm using the Canon 70-200mm f/4 L-series.

It is exceptionally good and always maintains high quality shots even with the Canon 1.4x convertor attached. The thought of having bought the Sigma convertor instead makes my stomach churn!

A couple of examples below for you;


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Arnold



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Arnold



Hope that helps!

Regards,

Paul.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 3:55 am

Now now Joe. I own both the Sigma 70-200 APO HSM EX f/2.8 and the Nikon 80-200 AFS f/2.8. The Sigma has a slightly "cooler" color cast then the Nikon, and I think the Nikon AFS is slightly faster in low-light conditions, but they are pretty darn close.
 
joe pries
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 4:09 am

the statement said "the same optical quality" Royal

 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 4:27 am

oh yeah. good point. I come from the school of "if it costs more it must be better..."

Your mileage may vary.
 
Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 5:55 am

Thanks for the input guys!

Paul, is the AF much slower when using the 1.4x converter? Have you tried it with the 2x??

Staffan
 
airsnaps
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 6:32 am

Staffan,

One would assume the AF to be slower once the 1.4x convertor is attached, but I haven't noticed any difference at all. It still focuses before I have time to blink!

I've never tried the 2x convertor, but Colin (Ckw) has some terrific results with it and has assured me that it works a treat! You won't loose AF with it either on the Canon 70-200mm f/4.

Hope that helps again!

Regards,

Paul.
 
Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 6:39 am

Thanks!!

Won't the f/4 be an f/8 with the 2x? I think I only have AF up to 5.6, but I guess if the light is good enough, it might work..

Staffan
 
fallingeese
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 7:27 am

How are Tamron lenses compared to Sigma in quality?
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
ckw
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 8:12 am

You WILL loose AF with the 2x but not the 1.4x - however, AF is slower with a convertor attached - not bad, just slower than without. Canon actually documents this as a "feature" to "ensure precise focusing" or something similar.

How are Tamron lenses compared to Sigma in quality?

I think with all 3rd party lenses, there are stars and dogs. From my own experience I have owned a Sigma 400mm APO, Tokina 70-200mm f2.8 and Tamron 90mm macro. All were superb lenses. I have also owned lenses from these companies that were absolute crap - each lens needs to be assessed on its own merits.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
JeffM
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 8:14 am

Staffan,

Taken with the Sigma 70-200 EX APO HSM :

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeff Miller


Virtually nothing but resize done to it. I also have the Sigma 1.4EX TC and it is the only TC to use on it.

Jeff
 
garuda
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 10:06 am

I think with all 3rd party lenses, there are stars and dogs.

Can't agree more... In fact even Nikon and Canon have some crappy lenses as well.

If you want to find infos regarding photography equipment, I suggest to check http://www.photographyreview.com.

JA
 
KAL_LM
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 3:25 pm

I can't speak for the Sigma, but my zoom is a Tamron 80mm-210mm, and am very pleased with the results (if only my scanning skills and scanner were up to par though...). I've used it in a variety of situations, not just aviation adn have not been disappointed...yet.

This shameless plug was done with that lense.

But as was said above, your mileage may vary...

regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
 
jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 4:27 pm

Tom, I think you'll find that no large part of those poor scans are caused by your Tamron giving poor resolution of small details.
On a 10x15cm print you don't notice, but if you blow it up to 20x30 or larger the flaws become obvious.

As to price differences, OEM lenses are always more expensive even when they're not really better. You pay big bucks to have the word "Canon" or "Nikon" plastered on the lenscap...
A Nikkor or Canon might be 1% better at 100% higher cost. Unless you're someone for whom that 1% makes the difference in getting a shot that you can sell for more than the price difference there's no reason to get the Nikon or Canon except snobbery Big grin
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timdegroot
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 5:32 pm

"A Nikkor or Canon might be 1% better at 100% higher cost. Unless you're someone for whom that 1% makes the difference in getting a shot that you can sell for more than the price difference there's no reason to get the Nikon or Canon except snobbery"

Sure we all buy those lenses purely to be snobs, jeezz.....  Nuts, don't say that just because you don't have one.
Maybe the Sigma 70-200 is comparable to similar Canon and Nikon products but most lenses have a significant quality advantage over the Sigma/Tokina/Tamron lenses.

Tim
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jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 10:40 pm

Tim, it's of course always a matter of the individual item.
But even you have to admit that to most people the tiny difference in quality between the average Sigma EX and its Canon or Nikon equivalent isn't worth the doubling of the pricetag.
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ckw
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sat May 10, 2003 11:19 pm

What do you mean by equivalent? If you are comparing 3rd party "pro" ranges to "standard" Canon & Nikon, yes I agree, but also the price difference is not so great these days. If you are comparing to the top line C & N, I think there are a significant number of differences - can't speak for Nikon in detail, but Canon "L" series will show:

1 - optical superiority - visibly sharper and better contrast, in part due to superior coatings.

2 - build - tougher construction and better whether proofing

3 - performance - 3rd party lens use a copy of the mount and lens/camera interface, they do not work form the Canon specs. This usually means Canon lenses tend to work better on Canon bodies, and in particular the AF is faster and more reliable. In fact there are situations where older 3rd party lenses will not work fully on newer Canon bodies.

Ultimately you pays your money and takes your choice. There is a difference, and significantly more than 1%. Whether or not that difference is worthwhile is up to the individual. Prior to switching to EOS, I used a mix of 3rd party and Canon lenses. I had good 3rd parties and bad - each had their own quirks. When I changed to EOS, I decided to stick Canon - each lens works as well as the other, provides consistent results and I don't have to worry about each lenses quirks ... whether or not they are better lenses, ease of use and standardisation makes for better photography.

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
timdegroot
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 2:57 am

You always know just what to say Colin, saves me some time Big grin

Tim
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JeffM
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:37 am

Actually Sigma is not a "Third Party" manufacturer. They have their own line of cameras. It would be interesting if Nikon and Canon would make mounts for other makes of cameras as well. That would raise the bar across the board.
 
joe pries
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:48 am

If you shoot digital then perhaps the final output will not show as much as slides- i have seen the top of the line sigma F2.8 and when you look at an action slide at full 210mm (sigma 70-210 F2.8) and compare to a Canon L 70-200 F2.8 at full 200 you begin to see the light (im talking with a powerful slide loupe)- the difference is night and day- i've seen it with my own eyes and I believe that I have enough knowledge and experience to make a valued judgement. They dont charge double the money for OEM because of a 1% increase in performance, just like you dont pay double or triple for a mercedes over a ford for no reason- there IS a reason.

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:03 am

Thanks for the replies!

I feel pretty confident that the Canon is a good buy. I've hardly heard anything negative about it, and I have yet to see someone selling theirs. That says a lot!

While we are at it, has anyone tried the EF 50/1.8 II? Is it as good as it is cheap?

Staffan
 
ckw
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:37 am

Staffan - too bad you didn't ask a year ago ... you could have had mine when I upgraded to the 2.8 IS! - mind you, quite a few people did this, so there are used f4 around - because they're so tough, it's a safe 2nd hand buy.

I have the EF 50 1.8 - a very sharp lens, but the construction is very light weight and plasticy - also, it doesn't have full time manual focus override like the better Canon lenses - you have to select either AF or MF. But for the money its a real bargain. Small and light enough to stick in your pocket. Optically I have no concerns whatsoever in using it - fastest glass you can get at a sensible price.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
andyhunt
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 5:16 am

Joe,

The concept is sometimes called "perceived value pricing". Common marketing term. It may or may not be the case with Sigma or Canon, but believe me, sometimes you really do pay double for the same. It happens.

Andrew
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joe pries
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 5:26 am

Andy, I dont doubt it for a minute, you're right. Just like generic drugs and brand name, they sometimes are the same exact thing. I can only speak personally from my own experience with the lenses, my slides and loupe and thats how I can make a rational decision, based on hard facts that my eyes see.

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 5:34 am

the other thing to consider is warranty and resale value. Also, a company like Sigma, while providing some top-notch glass, doesn't have the complete pro lines that Nikon and Canon offer. They are getting better (80-400 OS as an example) but large fast primes and VR/IS lenses are just now starting to come online.
 
jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 8:11 am

Andrew is quite right that Sigma IS an OEM...
They have a nice line of SLRs and now a revolutionary DSLR as well.
The SD9 can and does compete with the likes of the Canon 10D and Nikon D100 on equal footing...

I have 2 Sigma EX lenses and I'm extremely happy with them.
I for one don't care about resale value, usually I use an item until it breaks (and with the all-metal construction of high-end Sigmas that won't happen soon).

Sigma has had the 500mm f/4.5 APO EX HSM since at least 2001 (probably longer, that's the biggest award the lens won).
They've had the 300mm f/2.8 APO EX HSM since at least 1999, and I know for a fact that the current one isn't the first 300 f/2.8 Sigma produced.
Just about the only thing still lacking in their inventory is a 400mm prime (but maybe they consider the gap between 300mm and 500mm too small to have real market value).
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clickhappy
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 8:16 am

I was thinking more on the lines of 500, 600 and 800. And believe me, their 500 f/4.5 doesn't compare to the Nikon AFS II f/4, until you factor in the $$$ saved.
 
jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:10 pm

They do have an 800mm too  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Their 600 is a mirrorlens so I don't count that as those are too specialist.

I haven't used either the Sigma or Nikkor 500mm but I don't indeed think they are in the same class. Seeing as Sigma is slowly but surely upgrading their line it's probably just not yet brought up to the latest standards.
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Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:54 pm

Thanks for the replies (and for not killing eachother)!  Big grin

A year ago, my minolta was still working pretty well, so I wasn't really on the market for a new lens before I had a new body. Anyway the f4 seems to be much value for the money, and a good resale value if I want to move on later.

Staffan
 
jwenting
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Mon May 12, 2003 1:09 am

Staffan, found you a review from someone who'se used both the Sigma AND the Canon for considerable time next to each other: http://www.naturephotographers.net/mg0600-1.html
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Staffan
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RE: Sigma Or Canon?

Mon May 12, 2003 3:04 am

Thanks

The second hand sigma I was looking at was no good...
That article is about the 2.8 versions of both, and the 4 is cheaper than both of them, so the price argument is no good. Honestly I feel a lot better buying a Canon than a Sigma, so it will have to be a pretty good deal if the Sigma is going to have a chance.

Staffan

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