KLAX
Topic Author
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 1:13 am

Well, I'm just gonna concentrate on uploading to one website now, its easier, and I've already chosen what website I'd like that to be. This website is turning into a buisness, and I'm in thise for the hobby and the fun.
I have a few pics here, but I wont be uploading anymore. It was fun though.
Thanks for all the help and support.

Leftseat86@hotmail.com (MSN & Email)
Clovis86 (AIM)
N8195H (YahooMessenger)

See ya round'

-Clovis
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 1:16 am

Damn, 1 less point on my Respect Rating. Peace Clovis
Go big or go home
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 1:32 am

I wonder how long this thread will remain here... Bye, Clovis! No more TLS news from you on here.  Crying
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 1:54 am

And there was me thinking I had helped talk you out of it.......Damn :-(




Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 1:55 am

Godspeed to you, American Frog  Wink/being sarcastic
Hope you enjoy that 'other site'
Hope also to see you at the Paris Airshow anyway in June.

As for that other site... you might want to remember what you said anyways :
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/site_related/read.main/5060/6/ (just kidding )

cheers, and, as we say here in the Alps, Have Foehn

Antoine, from CMF, who choosed to stay on A.net (156 photos in the database in less than one year, and I don't even have access to Airbus factory at TLS !!!)
 
Guest

RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 2:05 am

Sad to see you go Clovis. Its really too bad your leaving here. I wish you good luck on the other site and hope to see you back here one day. Its sad to see soo many people leave these days  Sad

Bon Vent,
Tim (who continues to upload here and on pp.net)
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 2:16 am

Too bad, one less frog on the site  Sad
I've been with a.net since 1998, and at the time it was a lot more good-natured and open to anyone with a 24*36 camera.
Nowadays, you need DLSR's in order to have any hope of having 98' style approval rates. This is supposed to be a site for aviation enthusiasts regardless of their views or budget, not a plaything for people with cameras that cost more than my car. I sincerely Johan will remember what it was like in the good old days.
Anyway Clovis, I'll be at LBG in June, maybe with a DSLR (if you can't beat 'em...)
Anyways, CMF spotters will still kick ass for a long time - 200+ pics of CMF and 462 pics for CMF spotters  Laugh out loud
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
N737MC
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:29 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 3:10 am

Sad to see you go. I liked your pictures, Just to let you know. I will be on the lookout for them on the other site.

Have a good time and thank you for sharing your work here. It is greatly appreaciate by all of us people in the hobby!


Thank you

Aaron Mandolesi
Denver, Colorado
 
EGGD
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Sat May 24, 2003 4:21 am

/me waits for Clovis to return under his third alias  Laugh out loud
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Wed May 28, 2003 11:00 am

I wonder how many photographers such as Clovis, Josh Rawlin and Mark Abbott have left A.net? Would be interesting to know. I still participate in the forums over here, but there is no way I would ever upload another photo in this database.

Too much of a hassle with the screeners. Not enough consistency in the screening process, in my opinion.


Jay
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Wed May 28, 2003 11:59 am

Too bad you had to go, Clovis . . .

What happened to Skymonster?  Confused

Jerrold
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Wed May 28, 2003 12:09 pm

Too much of a hassle with the screeners. Not enough consistency in the screening process, in my opinion.

Just had a look at some of your photos on jetphotos, and the quality just isn't there. I think it is pretty obnoxious of you to blame the screeners...

Posts like this are the equivalent of telling your date "I don't really like the service we get at Ruths Chris Steakhouse, so we'll go to the Sizzler instead"
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Wed May 28, 2003 2:18 pm

Royal,
I like Sizzler! Ate there twice on my last trip to Seattle...... But, your right...many leave blaming the screeners, when they should look harder at their own images......

Jeff
 
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clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Wed May 28, 2003 2:53 pm

dude, Sizzler rocks! The Malibu Chicken is an all-time favortie, but if you want a real steak...

You must have stayed in SouthCenter  Big grin
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

Message To Clickhappy

Thu May 29, 2003 1:11 am

Look at some of my photos on this site. They are quality stuff. I don't see why all of a sudden my shots are "crap" and not worthy of A.net. I am not doing anything differently in terms of scanning, photoshopping, etc. in uploading to Jetphotos.net

As I have said earlier, I think this site is becoming way too concerned with digital images and I don't have those.

Also, who made you judge and jury of the photo quality of my shots?


Jay
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:17 am

Jay - you say your photos are quality stuff, but you also moan about how you need $1000's worth of equipment to get good photos.

Anyone can get photos into the database, I know people who are 12 or 13, have very cheap cameras and can still get photos in the database, I just think you are not willing to try new techniques or improve your photos especially when you get rejections.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:22 am

I am sure your slides are top-notch Jay, but the scanning leaves a bit to be desired.

My point was you blame the screeners for your shots being rejected...but they aren't up to standard. How is it that Not enough consistency in the screening process be labeled the problem?

To my eye it looks to be that the standards of the site have matured. Perhaps the level of quality you upload was worthy in 2001, but 2 years on that isn't the case.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:25 am

I am "trying" new techniques and I already have $1000.00's of worth of equipment. Canon EOS 1VHS, Canon 70-200 f-2.8, Canon 28-70 f-2.8, and Canon 1.4x and Canon 2x converters.

I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday and asked him why some of my photos are not sharp. He said to try using a higher f-stop, so next time I hit the airport, I'll go try that out.

As for my scanner, not much else I can do, unless I want to shell out another $1500.00 or so for a Nikon Cool Scan...........

Just get tired of trying so hard to get one accepted these days and all I get are rejections.............it is just not fun anymore........


Jay
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 1:04 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:33 am

Jay, you have the best setup money can buy as far as Canon, theres no reason to get not sharp photos. for action shots just set to TV and about 500th of a second on sunny days (theres no need to shoot kodachrome on cloudy days unless you're into sadomasochism) and you should be ok. I can shoot with the 70-200 and 2x converter at full strength and still achieve great results.

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:35 am

you certainley have good equipment  Big grin

The thing I have found is during the post-processing phase there is def. a "sweet spot"

All you need to do is find that sweet spot for your equipment and you are set.
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 1:36 am

Jay, equipment is not a problem. Maybe a new scanner will do, or work on your photoshop skills. Masking the sky, and other techniques can greatly improve your scans. I always try new things and try to get the best out of my slides.

As an example:On this photo I masked the sky and then used a little smartblur to eliminate most of the grain. Was shot with a Canon eos33, 28-105, and K64, and coolscan 4.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim de Groot



Tim
Alderman Exit
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:08 am

Thanks for the tips Joe and ClickHappy and Timdegroot !!

One question for ClickHappy, what are you referring to as the sweet spot?

One for Timdegroot, it concerns masking. I've never done that with Photoshop, what are you talking about?

Thanks!



Jay

p.s. to Joe........

Not into sadomasochism, but I am into chics with whips and leather,
does that count?  Big grin


Jay
 
timdegroot
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:21 am

Jay:

Use the "magic wand" tool to select the sky (works best with a blue sky without clouds, but can be done on a cloudy sky with some practice). You can then apply some smartblur to the selected area (I usually apply between 2.5 and 5.0). You can then also use "invert", so you select everything except the sky. You can apply unsharp mask to that area. This way the sky will be nice and smooth and the plane will be sharp. On all of my recent scans I have used this technique.

Hope you can understand what I mean Smile

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:27 am

I think I understand what you are trying to tell me to do.
I'll give it a try tonight when I scan a shot!

Jay
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:28 am

Jay:

I snatched your famous Peter Max shot (hope you don't get angry Smile ) and used smartblur (about 7.0) on the sky. You can see this can give quite a quality improvement.

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/phdegroot/AirlinersNetPhotoID250457.jpg

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:36 am

what I mean by "sweet spot" is finding harmony between your cameras output, the scan you create, and any post-process work in photoshop. One thing I have learned from reading what others do post-process, both here on Airliners and "specialty" websites such as fredmiranda.com, is that there is not one "right" way to finish an image, it takes time and experimenting, and the help of others.
 
Staffan
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:36 am

It's a good idea to mask away the sky before sharpening too, since it won't bring out noise in the sky. It also allows you to sharpen more without getting a dark or light halo against the sky.

Staffan
 
Ljungdahl
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:10 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:50 am

Jay,

In this thread, reply #10 and #11, I've made my best to describe the technique I usually use when I'm scanning & editing images, maybe some of those ideas could be useful for you too.

Johan (Ljungdahl)


 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 2:54 am

Yes with what Staffan says, I think Colin, made a photoshop action that can use that does that.
 
je89_w
Crew
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 5:54 am

I also have this photo I need help on Big grin :

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=jl743_52503.jpg

I know the contrast level is a bit high, but what other tips do I need to know?

Thanks a lot  Smile

Jerrold
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 8:09 am

Jerrold - first, you have to make an honest, objective analysis of the original. The main problem with this scan is that the shadows are completely black - there's almost no tonal variation in the underside of the aircraft - between the engine and fuselage is just solid black, and the intakes are just black disks.

Is there a better tone range in the original - eg. do you get a sense of depth in the engine intakes (gark grey fading to black?) if not, I'm afraid you're not going to get a better scan. If there is, then you need to take the time to correctly select the black and white points of the image when performing your scan - don't worry if the initial scan looks a little flat, this is easily fixed in Photoshop (or whatever) whereas excess contrast can't be cured. The object of a scan should be to capture as wide a range of tones as possible.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 10:04 am

Interesting topic.

Masking is basically highlighting an area to do work on. Whether it is the magic wand, lasso, or the box..
Je89.w what kind of scanner do you use? I am guessing that it looks like an HP S20 photosmart scanner.

Also the action feature in photoshop can be real handy to cut back the amount of time of doing some routine things like sharped and resizing.
I downloaded "ckwsharpen" sometime ago and well, it gave me an idea of how such multiple routine work can be done at the press of a key.
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 10:39 am

The priorities of the site have definetly changed over time, that's expected.

When airliners.net first opened up to submissions, there were few photos in the database. Now, the database is saturated. Selectiveness has to take place. You see, the database already has hundreds of pictures of UAL 777s, for example. The early ones are of pretty bad quality, relatively speaking. So, now there is no longer a demand for bland sideshots and the like. If you want to upload a picture like that, all the technical aspects better be damn well in-line, otherwise there is no difference from your photo and a photo of the same quality that was uploaded a year ago.

But, it seems that the image quality barline is lowered for especially artistic shots/rare shots/rare opportunities. You can get away with uploading a somewhat mediocre scan if there is clear artistic merit or a certain rareness to your picture.

So... what does that mean?

As a photographer uploading at this site, you'll need to focus on one of these:

1) Learn to take artistic shots. Put the "photography" back in "aviation photography."
2) Take rare shots, such as new aircraft types, new locations, etc.
3) Expand your borders and gain a new perspective from which you think about your photography.
4) Invest in an expensive digital camera/scanner/film so you can continue to take pictures that are very similar to ones already in the database (mainly, I'm talking about the boring sideshot type pictures).

All too often, people are forced to go with decision #4. They think that's the only other option.

My point: focus on your photography, not your camera. If someone gives me a 10D tomorrow, I won't be taking better pictures (photographically) than I am today.

Anyways. You guys can go ahead and devote yourself to other sites, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with those sites. They have much lower standards because they're new sites with relatively small databases. But wait until their databases become saturated and you'll see the same type of thing happen - selectiveness. It's natural, people...

Shawn

[Edited 2003-05-29 03:47:06]
 
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Bruce
Posts: 4934
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RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 10:43 am

"new types, new locations"...... hmmmmmmm, I may try and get to the Columbus Air Show this weekend. There's only 1 pic on the database from there and it's one of the older ones.

This is a job for "Special Agent D-30"  Big grin  Smokin cool


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 11:16 am

Hmm, this thread has deviated way off-topic. By the way, the question persists - where IS Skymonster???

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
n907cl
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:34 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 12:27 pm

Where is Skymonster?  Pissed ! http://www.jetcollector.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3617

[Edited 2003-05-29 05:37:54]
Brian
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 12:42 pm

Hmm, great photographers gone from this site - Richard Silagi, Tom Hildreth, Clovis Bouhrier (I hope I spelled his last name right), Mark Abbott, and now Andy Martin. What is going on???

It is a damn shame...

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
boeingholiday
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:59 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 6:21 pm

yes it is, I really liked the posts of "skymonster"....
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:37 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 6:51 pm

Sorry for continuing OT, but:

"bland sideshots"
"I'm talking about the boring sideshot type pictures"

Maybe you don't like sideshots Shawn, but there are many people who visit this site that do. I have quite a lot of sideshots that have 500+ hits.
While I agree that there is more to photography than sideshots (I also try something different every now and then), saying that there is no longer a place for them at A.net is just BS.

I like taking sideshots and will continue to do so forever. When they no longer get hits I'll stop posting them on A.net.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 10:25 pm

Tim,

Read my post more carefully. What I said is the market for sideshots has already been cornered. Now, Johan can't refuse them, but he can refuse low quality sideshots because there are already tons of them in the database (saturation). So yes, you can continue to upload those but the must be of very good image quality and have all aestetic/technical elements in line.

But don't whine when a sideshot isn't accepted. The quality standards are very very high for sideshots because that market has already been cornered.

If you want to go out and spend thousands of dollars just to take sideshots to upload to airliners.net, go ahead. To each his own.  Smile

That's all I'm saying.

Shawn

[Edited 2003-05-29 15:27:41]
 
cicadajet
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2000 1:54 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 10:58 pm


Someone once wrote...

"No individual photographer is larger than airliners.net itself, whether that photographer is a screener or a long standing photographer with thousands of pictures on the database."
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Thu May 29, 2003 11:37 pm

If you want to go out and spend thousands of dollars just to take sideshots to upload to airliners.net, go ahead. To each his own.

I have invested several thousand $$$'s worth of equipment to do just that, take boring sideshots. I would prefer to look at sideshots more than some of these so-called "artsy" shots. And, I actually fine sideshots (because of their quality pre-scan) to be accepted easier than "artsy" shots.

The quality standards are very very high for sideshots because that market has already been cornered.

Trust me, the a.net quality for sideshots is no where near the quality requirement Tim and other serious-collectors require. And no, it hasn't been cornered..you'd be surprised how many can't actually take a quality sideshot...at least to our standards.

You have to remember Shawn, people who visit a.net visit for different reasons, not just to view "pretty artsy" photos. I rarely check-out the "most popular" shot links not because they aren't good photos but because they rarely contain perfect sideon shots which I look for.

Michael
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 12:03 am

I love viewing Michael's, Carlos', Joe's, Tim De Groot's side on approach and ground shots they are stunning to look at...I find although I love an artsy shot that I get 'bored' of them quite easily, whereas a good quality side on I will always look at and it is each to their own  Smile

Ben Pritchard
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 7:16 am

Oh, it seems like I veered a little bit off topic by giving you my opinions, oh well.

The main point I was trying to get across is "stop whining about airliners.net standards." You've all said it yourselves - you love high-quality sideshots. OK then. Airliners.net is full of low-to-medium quality sideshots, so now the standards have been raised. You said it yourselves - collectors want HIGH QUALITY. So that's what you're up against. By uploading sideshots and documentary-style, collectable pictures to airliners.net, you're competing against some of the best documentary-style aviation photographers. If you want to run away from that competition, go ahead and "leave" airliners.net and yank your pictures off. But, if you want to continue to compete for acceptions here, you'll have to put forth extra cash to buy new equipment to make your images top-notch and stop whining.

That's the main point of my post. It's hard to argue with what I just said; you all just said it above.

Basically, if you upload documentary-style photos, know that there is a lot of competition in this arena. So you can buy new equipment and not whine about having to do it, or you can change your style of photography. Either choice is great, granted that you don't whine about it.

Shawn
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 7:28 am

lol,

As some of you might have noticed, I have been doing some side on approach shots myself lately... I indeed find a great side on action shot with great weather and a nice plane more interesting and more satisfying than an "artsy" shot. But I will continue to take those as well...

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 7:39 am

Weitse,

I woudn't really consider those type of shots to be "bland sideshots", to use my own term. Those are more action shots, which are definetly very interesting. The "bland sideshot" in my book is usually is a 50mm shot of a plane sitting on the tarmac or creeping along a taxiway  Sleepy Obviously, I'm not a slide collector  Smile

Shawn
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 1:22 pm

Well this thread has gone amazingly off topic...so Ill just try to swing things a little more on topic by giving a belated goodbye to Clovis from the forums, although Ill see him on IRC so its not a permanent goodbye or anything...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:37 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 5:06 pm

Yes Shawn quality standards are and should be high for sideshots on A.net , although like Mike said, they are nowhere near to what some collectors require. I know some people who collect slides, who wouldn't even look at 90% of the sideshots uploaded here, would they be slides.

But the standards for so called artsy shots should also be high, as the database is also saturated with closeups etc. Just as with shooting sideshots you're also up against a number of amazing photographers, and your quality will have to match those as well.

No excuse for whining about rejections IMO, like you said improve your standards or leave, which some people have done......

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
N178UA
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 5:55 pm

Hey Michael

I also love sideshots! I agree with all your views  Big thumbs up
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
je89_w
Crew
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Adios Everyone!

Fri May 30, 2003 6:53 pm

I also love sideshots! I agree with all your views

Me too!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Jerrold  Big grin

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