cabbott
Posts: 496
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Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:20 pm

Guys

A.net has been growing steadily in size for many years now. Around 2 years ago I was making a photo sale every 1-2 weeks. Great! But ever since we have had more Digital Photographers and more photographs in the DB the sales has fallen for me to 1 per 2-3 months.

Recently they introduced the Buy a Print thing which i think is a great idea but it has its bad points as well. Maybe it's me but i feel having this has reduced the amount of sales traffic and recently I have been selling nothing which is not so great. Of course I do this as a hobby and i enjoy every minute of it but its nice to make a little something every now and then.

So my question to you all:

Has your photos sales Stopped or Dropped in recent times.

Some feel that A.net has evolved into a business and the family atmosphere has disappeared. We have lost so many good photographers lately, I wonder if this is the reason why!

Colin
 
serge
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:29 pm

Usually I would average 1-2 photo requests a month- but its been 4 months for me since the last one!  Sad

...Serge
 
LGW
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:08 pm

Yes I to have noticed a reduction recently in photo requests

Ben Pritchard
 
ckw
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:44 pm

Hard to say - I think I've seen a drop in print requests for personal collections ... which I could well see being due to the print sales feature. Commercial queries are perhaps about the same, but follow through to sales perhaps a little higher  Smile

I thought things were getting quiet, but then in the last couple of weeks I've made 5 sales - perhaps worth mentioning that only one of them was for an airliner - 3 were for GA, one for a bizjet

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
jettrader
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:06 pm

I have to say that I've never done this to make sales but just lately it's been quite profitable.

This year I've had four requests for photo use where I've secured fees. I asked for and received $100 (US based cargo leasing company - 1 image for use on their website), $100 (US based real estate broker - 1 image for use on a flyer), $100 (Bombardier Aerospace - 1 image for use in press-pack for Flybe pitch - Shaun Grist & Derek Pedley also on the CD of images I requested) and £100 (UK commercial customer - selection of images for print and display at their premises) respectively. Nice $£$£$£$$  Big thumbs up

Oh...and if the tax man's reading this...I've earnt nothing and the rest of this post is a total fabrication!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

Cheers,
Dean
Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
 
Thom@s
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 9:13 pm

I want to put my photos out for sale (prints) but nothing yet. Haven't sold a thing yet. Donated and had stolen from me, but not sold....  Sad

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:17 pm

Yes Colin,

My sales have fallen off drastically as well. Last year it was four digit sales… this year so far: not even close. Personally I feel it is due to the huge number of photos that are added to the database on a regular basis. Earlier photos just don't have a chance. For those of us that are very selective on what we upload it's bad news as far as sales are concerned.  Sad

As for Buy A Print sales… I suspect that they are having some impact. I have no clue how many (or even if any) are sold… how do we check? I’ve asked a number of times for having my older prints added to Buy a Print but never got a response so that probably puts me at a disadvantage.

Finally, I have noticed another trend. Flight International and other publications seemed to be using a lot of a.net photos… now they seem to mostly have switched to manufacturer, airline or staff photos. Anyone else notice this?

Sunil
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:38 am

My low in sales was in late 2001 and 2002, this year it has picked up again. On average maybe 1 sale per month.
I believe my rise is due to a high number of new photos and improved quality.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Dazed767
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:17 am

I've had like 2 this year....one recently to Guiness Book of Records. And yes my sales have dropped off sharply.

Justin
 
fallingeese
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:18 am

The last little bit has slowed down alot. Earlier this year I figured I had a request about every 2 weeks, and some cash comming in maybe every month or two. But lately I've had no offers, surprisingly since in the last month i have pretty well doubled the amount of photos in the database.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:23 am

alot of it is a factor of freebies given out here, just recently i got the below from a major US airline (i asked to get a buddy pass if $'s were not in the cards).....
read the last sentence as "i'm sure i'll find a freebie from someone else"

==============================

Joe,
Thank you for the quick response back. Unfortunately I am not in a
position to give out a personal pass, since company policy prohibits the
sale or bartering of passes for anything other than family or friends
and for pleasure only.

I apologize if I put you in an uncomfortable position by asking to use
the photo. I will look for another photo to use in my document.

 
lennymuir
Posts: 403
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:36 am

As for Buy A Print sales… I suspect that they are having some impact. I have no clue how many (or even if any) are sold… how do we check?

If (and i mean if) it is having an impact whereby commercial companies are ordering prints under the guise of an 'individual', that is worrying, yet, there has been little or no (weekly/monthly) feedback from this website either generally or to individuals regarding it's progress.

Strangely, one of my regular 4x6 'print' clients has gone quiet lately.  Confused

I feel Johan will eventually advise us that there has been few print sales, in which case I reckon it's due to 'freebies' and/or illicit usage.  Wink/being sarcastic

Gerry
 
administrator
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:53 am

I am sorry to hear sales have dropped. Is there anything Airliners.net can do to improve the situation?

Regarding photo print sales, those are for personal use and should have no impact on commercial sales that you setup yourselves.

We've had a total of 205 print sale orders. You will have access to personal stats about your sales soon and the FTP upload feature will also be added soon. I've been meaning to work on this the last few weeks but other things keep interupting me. Please have patience, feel confiend all orders are tracked and everything will be visible in your personal statistics when that function is working.

Thanks,
Johan

Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
EGBB
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:02 am

I have stopped uploading with the buy print option and have requested that my other pictures have the buy print feature removed as I am not happy with the total lack of response from the site re the concerns I and many other photographers have repeatedly raised over the last 8 weeks both on the forum and by email.

Derek



 
cabbott
Posts: 496
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:56 am

Johan Thanks for the reply.

Guys its nice to hear your comments and views. I think we all know that ad-hoc sales will continue to fall due to the huge amount of images, sites and photographers on the Internet. Digital has changed everything and makes getting a picture from the camera onto the net very easy and fun. I think relationships that have built up between photographer and customer are important and will continue to survive. One on One business makes sense but like Joe says sometimes they can go for the freebies, time will tell.

I haven't really gotten involved with the buy print thing just yet. I am waiting to here the feedback from admin staff and consumers.

In short Johan, there is nothing you can do to stop private sales falling. There is probably lots of business ways for you to attract more buyers but that would be turning a hobby into a serious business, something I don't think many people want. We just do this weird hobby for fun and enjoy when we get a few extra $$$ out of it.

Thanks
Colin
 
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Bruce
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:08 am

I'm divided on this issue. I just sold one today, and am waiting on a guy to get authorization from his company to buy one and he also might buy another. Both commercial sales. No personal sales in 2 months. On the other hand, i think commercial sales are better customers - they will pay more usually.

I can see where if you choose the "buy a print" option people might be more tempted to go that way instead of contacting you. It takes the sales out of our (photographers) hands. I'm not involved in that feature yet and am not sure if I want to. But yes, even still my personal sales are down. So maybe I have nothing to lose!


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
fallingeese
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:41 am

I honestly worry though, that some individuals, or even corporations may use the buy photo button, and interpret as they can use it, without paying any addition fees to us the photographer. Sure this may not happen, and you may not agree with me. The buy photo option can't be scrapped, but maybe some warnings prior to people buying the prints will let them know that it is for their collection, and nothing more, but I am willing to bet some would ignore this.

I recently had an issue with a very large media chain, after they stole one of my photos from here. If affects all of us, and what worries me is that now even more are being used illegally, which we don't know about. Let's just say it's one hell of a shock to open up the newspaper and see you photo there!
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
ckw
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:26 am

In short Johan, there is nothing you can do to stop private sales falling

Hmm ... not sure. I think there is an ambiguity about the presentation of the sales feature which may be misleading potential customers.

1 - It could be understood that ONLY those prints with the "buy" option are for sale. Perhaps some potential customers are no longer bothering to contact photographers which do not display the buy option.

2 - Alternatively, customers may assume that the "buy" option is the only way to purchase an image, and again not bother to contact the photographer.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but here's one idea which could perhaps be incorporated when Johan introduces the FTP option.

Instead of a "buy this photo" link direct to the Photobox process, how about a link to an intermediate page - "Purchase Options"

On this page I would think you could

a) list the options available (small Photobox, large Photobox, direct from photographer

b) more clearly highlight terms (eg. personal vs commercial use)

c) perhaps provide an opportunity for the photographer to add some personal info ... maybe even links to published material? Or a business card? Johan might even consider charging for such personal advertising.

My thinking on this is to not detract from the hobbiest presentation of the core site, but provide a more business like extension for those interested in developing this side of things.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
dripstick
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:20 am

Damn your smart! You should be on the Board of Directors, Colin.  Big thumbs up

Your ideas are bang-on.

I never looked at it from the buyer's point of view before.

Cheers, Andy

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:46 am

Colin,
if there is a photo that meets a buyer's eye and it doesnt have a "buy print now" option, one would think that they'd be intelligent enough to use the "contact photographer" link. Or atleast i hope so  Big grin

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
PH-OTO
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:09 pm

I hope the same, Joe.
But I fear that a lot of people read it the way Colin mentioned.
Colin, I think you brought up some nice solutions!

Martin Boschhuizen
Look very closely between the lines of this message, and you will see the captain beating up the jumpseater
 
ckw
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:08 pm

one would think that they'd be intelligent enough to use the "contact photographer" link

Well, fortunately for me, some are  Smile - but you have to try and look at the site objectively, form the view point of a visitor who doesn't have our inside knowledge - or perhaps a lot of knowledge about the web ... the other feature which may be working against those not part of the scheme is that little "only photographs for sale" check box on the home page to restrict the search.

I wonder how many media people use that option when looking for the shot they need for their next advertising campaign?

Cheers.

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:12 pm

I have to agree with all Colin has said on this subject and feel that the idea of selling our photos through Anet for private small picture sales is excellent but there are faults that need to be adressed.

1. Being able to order large size prints from small 1024 uploads (I know an order for mouse mats has been made from my 1024 size uploads)

2. Not enough has been done to stop commercial users ordering prints or directing them to the photographer direct

To help both protect the photographer and to help in the sale of pictures through the 'buy print' option we need some kind of download image protection to stop theft from the site.

As it is so difficult to get a response these days from Johan, as he is forever busy with other things and obviously has no time in replying to questions and concerns raised, could we not nominate a photographers spokesperson who would be a go between with Johan and could possibly raise and disscuss problems with Johan and the screeners on a weekly bases rather than having no or little feedback?

It is quite obvious that an awful lot of longstanding photographers have become unhappy in the last few months and I do feel much of this is, perhaps, down to bad communications between Johan, crew members and the photographers.

BTW I would nominate Colin  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

All the best

Derek





 
ckw
Posts: 4586
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:06 pm

oh thank you very much ...

But, I do take Derek's point, and I do feel at times that the photographer's wishes and needs are not given as much attention as they should. I'm not saying this is the case, but it certainly can appear that chat rooms, forums, travel offers etc. are becoming more important than photographs.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:08 pm

There is no doubt that Johan is very very busy, i emailed him a couple of months ago about wanting to do an ad on airliners.net for my slide auction site and i never got a response- i said to myself, if a site owner does not respond to someone wanting to give him money, he must be one busy man  Big grin

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:24 pm

Sales ? what are sales? Airlines dont wanna pay anything or close to nothing for pictures. 2 examples from the last two weeks.
--
Lufthansa Training:
... we would like to use the picture in training material at the pilot shool. Unfortunately we cant pay anything ....
--
Air A!ps wants 2 or 3 pictures for unlimited usage offering one free return trip. When I asked for at least a whole day on the jumpseat the answer was "One flight for all the pictures".

Bad thing is that i know that they got other pictures for the "prize" they offered.
--
Peter
-
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:41 pm

Just recieved I guess the same request Peter had

Dear Mr. Pedley,

I work for Lufthansa Flight Training in Bremen (Germany) as an aeronautical
engineering instructor and would like to use your picture in our handbook
"Principles of flight". This handbook is given to our students. Unfortunately my
company won't pay for any pictures, but I would send you a handbook after
completion.

I am looking forward hearing from you.

Greetings from Germany,

I will send my reply ending in Greetings from England  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:17 pm

at least the german version of his e-mail is more friendly there he writes "can't pay" in the english version its "won't pay".
I forgot the
"Greetings from Austria" in my response  Smile
Peter
-
 
EGBB
Posts: 527
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RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:39 pm

Thought you would like to see his reply:

Hi Derek,

thanks for your quick response.

Personally I would really like to pay you for the picture. As our handbooks
are not used for commercial purposes, I am not allowed to use pictures,
where we have to pay for. The only thing I can offer, as I wrote in my
request, is the handbook in which the picture is published.

I am really sorry having received that information from you. Anyway, it is a
great picture.


I am sure some kind person will soon say yes and be really grateful in receiving a nice Lufthansa handbook in exchange for a picture.

Derek



 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3713
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:08 am

Well, up until early this month my sales (commercial in particular) were sorely lagging from the same time last year. However, June has strangely been a very good month for me in terms of both commercial (4 travel agencies, 2 GA/FBOs and 1 airline) and personal (10 print) sales, so much so that I could probably get that 10D now. The odd part is that I have not added anything new to the DB since Feb.

That said (and yes I know the following statement is an old argument) with the plethora of new shooters uploading here and elsewhere, willing to give their work away for free along with a credit line especially to commercial ventures, sales will no doubt continue to drop off. Hell, if I were in such a position at a cash strapped carrier and had to decide whether to shell out $500.00 for a pic while another photog is offering a photo of equal or better quality for nothing, well its a no brainier where I am
going to go. Just one of the many pitfalls of the internet.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Has Your Photos Sales Stopped/Dropped?

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:08 pm

Same here...sales has been slow this year with only a few small ones here-and-there but luckily June is doing much better with a deal just closed yesterday.

Hopefully it's the sign that things will pickup for all of us...good luck guys and please...NO FREEBIES...



Mike

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