Continental
Topic Author
Posts: 5222
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Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:09 am

I just recently had a photo rejected.

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=JUNE133.jpg

It's a NWA A319. I don't see many shots of closeups with A319s of NWA here. It received a rejection due to the aircraft not being fully visable. When you zoom in for a closeup, parts of the aircraft will no longer be visible! I thought this shot was pretty good for a 2 mp camera!!!! I also thought that the cool reflections would add. Any suggestions on what to do, or shall I let this one go as well!? I came here because I am puzzled! Thanks for all help that I receive!

co
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:18 am

I love it... don't think it should have been rejected.  Yeah sure

Hank
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:20 am

well, what was the rejection reason?
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:25 am

It received a rejection due to the aircraft not being fully visable.

co
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:10 am

Thats a weak ass reason. Its a great picture. Maybe the screeners need a vacation.
Good shot Continental.
Go big or go home
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:39 am

Thanks!!!! That was very kind! I will reupload, and hope that it gets in!!

co
 
LN-ATC
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 2:54 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:55 am

To me this photo seems a bit "half close up/half regular". If your intention was to shoot a close up, you should have zoomed even more. You would've get rid of the empty space in front of the plane as well.
Anders Presterud, Stavanger, Norway
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:57 am

I think it is closeup enough to be called a closeup. I didn't want to zoom in anymore, I'd loose the engines.

co
 
crank
Posts: 1524
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:56 am

It's a great photo, it should be accepted.
 
cicadajet
Posts: 816
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:59 am

Its a very nice shot Continental... but not all nice shots get accepted necessarily.

A.net happens to be the highest quality image database of its kind, but that does not mean there are not preferences or perhaps even fetishes at work in what will or will not get accepted.

Why don't you simply appeal per the policy already in place to find out where the image stands, rather than try to undermine the process by simply adding it again?

Tom
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:06 pm

I'm never going to appeal. Johan always rejects them. Plus I don't think Johan is accredited to tell me if my pic is of good quality or not, he's not like Joe who has been taking photos for decades.

co
 
serge
Posts: 1903
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:40 pm

I'm never going to appeal. Johan always rejects them. Plus I don't think Johan is accredited to tell me if my pic is of good quality or not, he's not like Joe who has been taking photos for decades.

Sorry there John- but it still is a private website, owned by Johan like it or not. The appeal function was created as a last resort- its the end of the line of an image unless later on you are somehow able to improve it severely- its the standard itself you are submitting it to- if you follow.

My thoughts.. anyway.

Serge

[Edited 2003-06-19 05:42:10]
 
serge
Posts: 1903
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:44 pm

As for your photo- great idea but it would most likely be accepted a lot easier if you zoomed out to include the tail- or zoomed in to half the engines.. I can show you what I mean by manipulating it in PS if you want.

Serge
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:26 pm

That's how it showed straight from the camera. I zoomed in to show upclose of the fuselage. I know, I'll continue to not appeal, I don't care if Johan doesn't like my pics, I still don't think he's accredited to, if he took photos for decades then I could see. I've had pics rejected, I bothered not to appeal but to simply put them back in the queue, and they were accepted! Thanks for the help Serge!
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:08 pm

I have to agree with Serge here.

In my personal preference, I wouldn't accept it. It just doesn't seem right without the tail section. If it was cropped closer to just include the engines, it would be fine, but it seems just to be confused between the both ideas.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:57 am

Ok, whatever. I'm going to keep uploading it until it gets in. It's better than some of the crap I see here.

co
 
fallingeese
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:32 am

"I'm going to keep uploading it until it gets in"....that's not the type of thing you admit to....

Part of the rejection process is to make you a better photographer, it let's you know what is wrong with your photo.

How many times will you have to put it into the queue before you give up?
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
Continental
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:43 am

Actually you're right, if it doesn't get by in 1 to 3 times I send it to the 'other' site where it gets in like it should.

co
 
KingWide
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 7:30 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:56 am

Strictly speaking you shouldn't re-upload unchanged photographs at all. One uploader in the past has been temporarily banned from uploading to the site because of consistent re-uploads of unimproved images.

Whilst I understand that you are simply trying to exploit some of the consistency problems inherent in the screening process, be advised that we have introduced new mechanisms into the process specifically aimed at catching this kind of re-upload approach.

If you don't like the decision, appeal. If you don't think Johan will let the shot in on appeal then, with respect, you probably shouldn't be uploading it in the first place.


cheers,


J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:20 am

Why shouldn't I be uploading? I have the right. I improve the photos everytime I reupload. When I reuploaded, I cropped it a little better. I'll never appeal, I doubt Johan even looks at the photos...

co
 
KingWide
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 7:30 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:24 am

All I said was that you shouldn't re-upload an unchanged photo. if you have made an improvement to the photograph then there is no reason for you not to upload the new photograph.

J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:54 am

Thank you. If I ever reupload, I do make changes to the photo.

co
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:17 am

Now Johan rejected the appeal as low quality. These people on this site are nutcases.....

co
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:24 pm

Now Johan rejected the appeal as low quality. These people on this site are nutcases.....

No they're not. Leaving aside the cropping issue which I will admit can be immotive, Johan's assessment is fair in my opinion... It falls into the "badscan" category - OK, so it may be digital, but non the less there's too much noise in the solid color areas, especially the grey. Without seeing the original, I have no idea whether the problem can be solved.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:06 pm

While I think the photo is quite nice, I think you should give it a rest.
There's no need to go crazy and call people names just to get a picture on here........
You like the picture, that is all that matters! Upload to another site if you desperately want other people to see it.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
EGFF
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:56 pm

"Ok, whatever. I'm going to keep uploading it until it gets in. It's better than some of the crap I see here."

"Now Johan rejected the appeal as low quality. These people on this site are nutcases....."

I've noticed you around quite abit recently "Co" and quite frankly your attitude stinks ... maybe you need to grow up a little
Regards
Shaun  Angry
All together or not at all
 
captainmatt
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:57 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:40 pm

MY opinion probably isn't worth much to any of you... However, John I like your photos. And this photo to me is sweet. As a regular Joe, that appreciates airplane photos... (Most of the people that view this site anyways... not diehard people analyzing all the stuff that some really neat photos are rejected for).

This photo is one that I would open up large when I’m scanning through the database which I do nightly to see the new uploads.

Your photos are great... Maybe you should look elsewhere to upload your photos to a database that is more appreciative of a nice shot. Keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing more by you.

Best of Luck,
Matt


One of my favorites by you…


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Muzic





[Edited 2003-06-22 10:42:04]
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:49 pm

Thank you very much Matt! That was kind! I just really wish my pic was in this database for everyone to see!

co
 
Sonic99
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:22 am


If the quality of the photo is bad (with parts of the aircraft missing) although it's a perfectly great photo then what is the REAL reason behind the rejection?

Double standard?

Perhaps - take a look at these - interesting, isn't it?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM


 
cicadajet
Posts: 816
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:25 am

Joe's shots are entirely different.

There's a better balance to the subject, while still providing dynamic visual tension that conveys size and power. There's not alot of extraneous open space with tarmac.

The first thing that hits you when you open them up full size is not "the wing is missing", or "the tail is missing". The Delta shot, there is no room for it to move...he's directed your eyes right onto what he wants you to see..the fuselage. The Jetblue has only one place to go visually; straight ahead, (guided by the line as well). and Joe's strapped you into a nice vantage point.

John's/Continental's shot is nice enough...and I'd never suggest anyone change their shot for A.net unless they wanted to do so... but visually, it can catch you "in between" close-up and full away shot...especially with the A-319 fuselage tappering up as it does from that angle, you can't help but anticipate the tail; it draws your attention to what is "missing"... with room still for the aircraft to taxi forward...

No comparison here I don't think.
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:34 am

I think what's being forgotten is that Co's shot also has significant colour noise.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:23 am

Keep in mind Colin, I don't have $8000 like you do to spend on a camera. It seems that only people with nice cameras get photos on here.

co
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:48 am

The reason I've got money to spend on new equipment is from money earned shooting on camera equipment, which, looking at your profile, is older than you.

I'm not going to deny that quality gear makes life a lot easier, but if you think equipment makes the photograph, you're in the wrong hobby and are doomed to continual disappointment. The secret is to learn the strengths and weaknesses of what you have and work with the equipment, shoot within its limitations.

Above all, learn to accept criticism and profit by it.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Craigy
Posts: 1076
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:56 am

I like your shot a lot, and the reflections really make it good. The only thing I can see against it is the digital noise, especially on the grey part of the fuselage. As a matter of interest, what ISO are you shooting?

Regards,
Craig.
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:49 am

I always shoot with ISO 100. Colin, I just got a little pissed because I thought that was my best shot ever with my 2 mp camera.

co
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:23 am

Yeah, I understand that feeling - I've had favorite shots dumped as well. But A.net is not the be all and end all ... like any publication, it has particular requirements. Other places will be happy to get the shot, you're happy with it, so move on. If A.net becomes your only basis for success, 2 things can happen 1) you let someone else's standards become your standards and 2) your creativity becomes stunted.

While you can learn from A.net rejections, never let A.net dictate your photography.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 27, 2003 3:33 am

Grow up Continental!

Your attitude disgusts me... you seem to think it's a right of yours to have your photos added to the database. You seem to be the kind who doesn't look at the real source of why the photo was rejected, which is YOURSELF, not the screeners, not Johan, not anyone but yourself! Do you think you are above the rules here and all of your shots should be included in the database because you think they are great?

I'm sorry I've seen plenty of your stuff and I can't say your shots are anything spectacular. And yes, anyone can judge your shots whether they have been shooting for decades or for days, because everyone has their own opinions, and everyone had an idea of what makes a good photo and a bad one.

Your posts irritated me to the point where usually I just sit back and don't comment. Hey, I have not uploaded a photo to airliners.net in months, why? Because I know that my final edited images are not good enough to be added, not because the screeners or Johan don't know what they are doing, they have a hell of a lot more experience than yourself, myself, and most others who use this website. You're in no position to bash the screeners based on having your shot getting rejected. If it's frustrating to you, don't upload. I still immensly enjoy this website with or without my photos being included in the db.

Honestly, why do you care SO much that one shot of a pretty common aircraft that could have been shot by anyone gets added to the db? Personal glory perhaps?

I'll start it and end it with...... GROW UP!

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
Continental
Topic Author
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RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:35 am

First off, calm down buddy. I discarded this photo like last week. I have every right to say what I want, so I am, and I did, and I do NOT regret it one bit. I think it's stupid that I get my best shot rejected for not having the whole aircraft visible (even though there's tons of shots like these), then Johan says the quality sucks! Does Johan even TAKE PHOTOS!?!?!?!!? Some of my stuff isn't spectacular, well look, I've been out taking photos about 5 (five) times so far. I don't think I care, I upload what I want, when I want, it's stupid just because some dude's sitting there saying, 'HAHA, that isn't DSLR quality, REJECT!! HAHA!' There aren't many A319 closeups of NWA. Keep in mind I wanted this one to be in because it had neat reflections all over it. You're a person who makes jp.net look very appealing, I go there too, but I'm here to stay, and there's nothing YOU'RE going to do about it.

Let's close this sucker down, it's getting old.

co
 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:41 am

Hi Continental,

I've just seen this post, and have only recently started to post anyway.
I'm a new screener and finding it harder than I thought I would.

First of all I would like to say, you have some good shots on Airliners.net - and show a lot of promise.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Muzic



You're still starting off though, and to be honest - I got a lot of rejections early in the peace until I got the hang of what would be accepted and what wouldn't.
The guidelines are there and after a while, if something does get rejected you should be able to see it coming.
I still get rejected for some shots - although I know when I am bordeline in an area when I upload. I have a day where I like to push the envelope a little too far for my own good. But I don't upload if I know it is outside acceptable limits.

Anyway.... I have a little rule when it comes to bad centres. And to be honest, I would also reject the above shot for bad centre.

Fuselage is important, followed by tail and wings. If the entire fuselage can be seen, then how much of the tail can be seen? If the tail can't be seen, then usually it is the result of a very cropped shot that has the fuselage at a diagonal in the shot - generally the tail should be included.
Wings and winglets are less important. You can crop them, but it is nice to see wings where possible.
I am guilty for cropping out winglets!
If it doesn't contain the full fuselage, it must have motivation or simply be unusual (example: light effects, special marking, damage)

My own examples:

Tight - crop wings - keep tail, forget winglets:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Keep one wing, forget the other, centre fuselage - keep a winglet if present:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Diagonal fuselage hence tighter on fuselage - goodbye tip of tail:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Motivational off centre (this is marginal)

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Tight crop - hoping this one was excepted:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart



Hope this helps

Glenn Stewart
Sydney, Australia

Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
Continental
Topic Author
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:52 am

Thank you Glenn, that cleared everything! That's basically what I wanted to hear. Now I know to include the entire fuselage in the future. Damn, that would've been a sweet shot with all those reflections. I've finally grown to accept this rejection a while ago, I guess I just gotta get better! Thanks!

co
 
glennstewart
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:11 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:10 am

Continental,

You're right.
Fantastic shot of the Airbus with reflections, but nipping that tail end nipped your chances of uploading it in the butt.

I like to crop full frame. I am not one of the full frame shooters though. I like to give myself a bit of space for editing later.

Keep up your good work though, and over time watch the quality of your work sky rocket (take a look at my earlier stuff).

Love the new Northwest livery - I want to see more of it!!!

Glenn Stewart
Sydney, Australia
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
Continental
Topic Author
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Rejection Help Needed!

Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:29 am

Ok cool! But you have to admit, it was a pretty good shot for a new photographer shooting with a C700 2mp camera!  Big grin

co

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