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Bruce
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Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:36 am

I noticed that the screening queue is now up to 3800 plus another 200 plus for Johan; its growing again like it did when there was a screener shortage....did another Screener quit?

It seems as if just after the new ones came onboard the queue went way down like beolw 1000 and then, slowly, began to creep back up despite having a full staff of screeners!


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:49 am

summer.

More people shooting, screeners on vacation.

Of course, when you have individuals uploading dozens of RJ shots...well, you know the rest  Big grin
 
joe pries
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:04 am

at the risk of getting majorly flamed, am i the only one that wishes so very much that there was a button that would permit you to see newly uploaded airliners and airliners only? no gliders, helis, baloons, cessna 172s and the like, military or anything else for that matter but airliners only. Johan, can you try to develop such a filter?

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
Unique
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:19 am

Joe, I fully support that!  Big thumbs up
 
737heavy
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:24 am

Sorry guys I'll get to work.
 
Ljungdahl
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:20 am

Joe, Unique,

Count me in, as one more supporter!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Johan (Ljungdahl)

 
EGFF
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:22 am

Joe, im with you on that one ...
Regards,
Shaun
All together or not at all
 
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Bruce
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:30 am

Am I missing something here? On the front page when you click "view photos" it gives you a little box and you get to choose whether you want military, civil airliners, boeing, airbus, etc...... is that what you are talking about?

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
ckw
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:33 am

am i the only one that wishes so very much that there was a button that would permit you to see newly uploaded airliners and airliners only?

Pah! Cigar tube collectors the lot of you! Have you no souls? Real airplanes are made of sticks and strings and fabric!

Boeings and 'buses? The muzak of the skies  Smile

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
serge
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:35 am

Hi Bruce.. I think its only "Civil & Military", "Civil", and "Military".. no "Civilian airliners" as some want...  Smile

Serge
 
AA 777
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:08 am

Joe,

Count me in on that one too

AA 777
Matt
CRJ-700 FO
 
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:42 am

I would fully support such an option too.


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
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Kereru
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:04 pm

Bruce

I have been spending a good few hours per day uptill yesterday screening with a couple of others but it doesnt seem to have made a difference to the queue. As mentioned by clickhappy I think the number of uploads have increased when the queue came down to 1000. I have noticed in the past few days that the rejection rate for baddouble has been quite high, so it would help if some contributors did not load, what seems to be, the entire contents of their cards into the queue.  Wink/being sarcastic

I think a couple of the others have been away with other commitments and are returning soon.  Big thumbs up

Colin
Good things take Time.
 
Ejazz
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:23 pm

Why doesn't Johan just get more screeners. It's not as though he needs to worry about his wage bill.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
davideham
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:12 pm

A very easy way to reduce the queue would be to reject all pics without a c/n included (and the correct type). It isn't too difficult to find those, at least I can...
It would also be nice to have a filter that does not include photos of aircraft with parts missing, for example parts of the tail or wings being cut off. I usually throw them away when this happens by accident.

David
 
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:04 pm


"...so it would help if some contributors did not load, what seems to be, the entire contents of their cards into the queue..."

Well displaying the upload stats prominently on the front page of the site is only going to encourage this kind of mass uploading. In my opinion that was a big mistake!

For all sorts of reasons many here seem to be driven (read "obsessed") with hits and/or statistics. Affording people the opportunity of getting their name in lights (so to speak) just for getting 50 shots uploaded and accepted in any one day is like a red rag to a bull.

Serves no purpose whatsoever. Johan...do us all a favour and ditch that feature. Pretty please...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,
Dean
Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
 
LGW
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:14 pm

I am getting my photos added quickly, no complaints from me, mine are being added normally within a a day or so of uploading, I am trying to upload in small batches and not all at once to help the screeners out and also, personaly there is nothing more boring than seeing a massive load of similiar shots from the same photographer in one lot i.e 20+ shots from the same photograher from the same day etc when I am going through the new uploads!

Ben Pritchard
 
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:29 pm

Well I'm doing my 'other' job [see URL in my profile] at the moment so I'm not doing any screening for the site. I suspect a number of people are doing similar non-screening type things with their spare time.


J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
Ejazz
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:36 pm

there is nothing more boring than seeing a massive load of similiar shots from the same photographer in one lot i.e 20+ shots from the same photograher from the same day etc when I am going through the new uploads!

Ben I couldn't agree more but this might be due to the system as it now exists. I thought there was an earlier topic on the queue being altered so that your uploads would be grouped by the date of upload and not by your upload name. That would have possibly helped but it appears to have disappeared fairly quickly.

As for being screened and added within a day.....WHO THE HELL DO YOU KNOW BEN?

I've had 3 in the queue, not an excessive amount, for almost a week without any being screened. Dare I say I've added another since but still waiting. What is happening is yes the number of photographers ahead of me is reducing but the number of photographs just remains stagnant or keeps going up. Shame as I know some of the offenders but what can you do? Its called the "kiasu syndrome" here.

Cheers.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:01 pm

As you probably know, we still have a fundamental imbalance of screeners between north and southern hemisphere. This last week or two, the weather in western Europe has been mainly excellent, and even if we discount some screeners being on holiday, for those of us still close to PCs its not too difficult to choose between going out in the evening for a few beers and a bar-b-que, or to go shooting some pictures, or doing some screening. Sadly at this time of year, screening sometimes gets pushed down the list a little. Last weekend in the UK was Flying Legends at Duxford, and the PFA Rally at Kemble (amongst others). This weekend in the UK, with the weather set to be fair, there's the British Grand Prix and the Royal International Air Tattoo at Fairford. I know I'm not going to be sitting in a hot study this whole weekend screening, and neither are most of my screening colleagues - because of everything going on and the nice weather, its inevitable that less screening is going to get done, right at the time when submissions are at a maximum. No doubt next week we'll get flooded with Fairford pictures...

The easiest way to expedite your pictures through the queue is to only submit those of best quality. We can and do immediate add some stuff, but its only the very best that gets processed this way. If you submit doubles, or marginal work, they'll get stuck in the queue whilst they go through several screeners. This not only delays you seeing your work on the site (if it finally makes it), but it also increases screener workload thereby lengthening the processing time even more. Be selective and you'll not only help yourself, you'll also help every other photographer and help the screening team too. Of course, we've said this before, almost until we're blue in the face, and still some folks ignore the advice.

As far as "load[ing], what seems to be, the entire contents of their cards" is concerned, whilst ever we have no restrictions on submissions it is each photographer's prerogative to do this if they wish. Again however, this could be construed by some as selfish as it clogs up the queue with common subjects, and the doubles that inevitably appear slow down the screening process. Unsurprisingly, its not usually the mass-uploaders who moan about the length of the queue, its the others who they affect that become unhappy. So, as before, it would help everyone if people were a little more picky, but we've said this in the past too, and yet again some folks ignore the advice.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
TZ
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:21 pm

Thanks for the thorough post Andy.

Technical question to the screeners:
When a picture is not instant-added and not rejected by the first screener, it obviously goes into the queue waiting for other screeners opinions. At this stage, is there a comment or series of tick-boxes describing the marginal quality of the image (to draw attention for the subsequent screeners)?

I think it would be very useful to receive this information when (if) a "marginal" photo is later accepted. It could be "the following photos have been accepted with the following warning(s)"!

I believe this would be a very valuable way of learning what is liked and disliked by the screeners.

From my personal perspective, I used to get 80% of my shots instant-added but now almost everything (of mine) goes to the multiple-screener queue. I'd like to avoid that because it wastes so much of the screeners time. However, if all these photos are later accepted, I will never know what aspect made them marginal, and hence I will not be able to tune my future photos to be better.

This suggestion (of a "warning" message when marginal photos are accepted) is only valid if this information is in the queue already. I completely understand that screeners simply do not have time to manually type new comments.

Tamsin
TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
 
ckw
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:27 pm

Can anyone clarify the point raised above - is the queue operating FIFO or are we still doing this pointless batching photogs together?

Also, I'd like to empahsise (again) Dean's comment about the stats obsessed search page - no added value and sending exactly the wrong message.

I had hoped some of my Duxford shots would have got added before the Fairford innundation, but sadly not the case - probably doesn't matter as it seems form the other thread no one wants to look at them anyway  Smile.

I'm not too bothered (I've got some up "elsewhere"  Smile ), but a system whereby those who play by the screener's guidelines for uploading are effectively penalised seems a bit unfair - there is clearly a lot of "place holding" going on and no apparent attempt to address this.

Don't mind waiting - and I certainly don't begrudge screeners their time spent on other activities - but the ordering of uploads when they do go through does, I admit, piss me off at times.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
aviator100
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:35 pm

CKW,

Well said!
There's more than airliners in the aviation world!

Regards,
Ad
 
Skymonster
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:39 pm

Tamsin - we don't have a "warning" option other than writing some comment to you which can be time consuming. Only Johan has the "added-with-warnings" function available. As far as your recently uploads being brought to the attention of other screeners is concerned, I suspect that it is our newer screeners being cautious with the immediate add function that is causing this all of a sudden - I know that if I see TZ Aviation I hardly need look at the large version (I do though!) as an I know an immediate add is almost always on the cards.

Colin - I am not absolutely sure what sequence the queue is operating in. I believe that it should now be by-upload-date/by-photographer. I too have had a picture in the queue for several days whilst others taken more recently than my upload have been added to the database... However, as you well know, the sequencing of the queue is a complex issue because its not only down to upload date, its also down to whether a picture needs several screenings and whether it goes on second opinion.

Andy

[Edited 2003-07-18 13:46:25]
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
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Kereru
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:46 pm

CKW Your Photos.

Done  Big thumbs up

Check your email or database.  Smokin cool


Colin
Good things take Time.
 
timdegroot
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:49 pm

I don't upload a lot, but when I upload a batch I usually wait until they are all accepted (or rejected Big grin )until I upload any new ones.

Some people upload so many and so frequently they slow down the q for others. When photographer X visits airport Y for one day you see sometimes close to 40 photos from that day uploaded all at once.......
Not only makes this for very tedious viewing IMO, but it slows things down for people behind in the q with maybe 4 or 5 pics.

Why upload everything you shoot and not select only the most interesting?
Yes I've heard the stories where some people have sold pictures with very few hits (I have done so as well), but if you upload here just to make money you're in it for the wrong reasons IMO.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
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Kereru
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:05 pm

I dont upload very frequently but I have uploaded 3 on 14th July, it will be interesting to see how long they take to be accepted / rejected.  Yawn

Colin
Good things take Time.
 
ckw
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:33 pm

Thanks very much Colin - though I really wasn't asking for special treatment, mine were just an example of what I think many people are finding to be a pain.

Andy - same old problem? Lack of comminciation between Johan and Screeners? I suspect it is not FIFO though as mine had not been given a first screening whereas I can see by the picture date that others must have leap frogged mine.

Tim - personally I like to work on maybe 3-5 shots a day maximum. This is a workflow which suits me - in an ideal world, this should result in a steady trickle of shots onto A.net. However, the system that is in place at the moment (through no fault of the screeners I hasten to add!) means that pictures loaded in this way get bunched up anyhow resulting in a feast or famine situation. Perhaps one should wait until the first batch clears before uploading more, but frankly the present system seriously disadvanatges anyone doing that, so I'm inclined to work at my own pace and let things fall out as they might.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
timdegroot
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:48 pm

Perhaps one should wait until the first batch clears before uploading more, but frankly the present system seriously disadvanatges anyone doing that

=====================================================
I understand what you mean Colin, perhaps its time to change the system Smile
Would it even be possible to make it a true FIFO system? IMO that would be a tremendous improvement to this site.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
Skymonster
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:59 pm

Andy - same old problem? Lack of comminciation between Johan and Screeners? I suspect it is not FIFO though as mine had not been given a first screening whereas I can see by the picture date that others must have leap frogged mine.

No Colin, I didn't say that. In fact, the issue is under active discussion. If every picture that was submitted was completely processed to conclusion before the next was processed, then it'd be easy to determine the order in which the queue was being processed. However, you know it isn't like that. What I meant was that it is almost impossible to accurately determine the sequencing of the queue from the outside, because there's so many different permutations and combinations of routes that a picture could take from submission to acceptance or rejection - from immediate add, through three screenings, through second opinions, even being routed to Johan. And of course, if there's not many screeners working and a picture ends up going the three screenings route, that picture can be held up in the queue waiting for that 2nd or 3rd screening long after a more recently uploaded picture that is immediate added appears on the database.

FIFO, whilst not without benefits, creates problems of its own, especially in respect of those photographers who submit "doubles" - several pictures of the same subject, taken on the same date at the same place. Its far less easy to route out the doubles with a FIFO sequenced queue, and even if we did detect the doubles it'd be much more difficult to control which of those doubles made it to the database.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
heliporter
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:48 am


I can just agree to these many uniform opinions. It seems that we all want the same - FIFO and around 5 pictures per upload (per photographer/day!). This would be fantastic for all, photographers and visitors!

Andy - I don't think that FIFO creates more problems to figure out "doubles"; seeing these many "doubles" uploaded today. Having FIFO (sorted by photographer per day), these "doubles" can be detected perfect. Also any mass uploads can just be rejected with "Bad-too much" (if the photographer is not able to make its own selection, the screener can do it).

I'm aware about the many routes an upload can take today ... But lets the routing to Johan beside as it is today. Then a second opinion is IMO really the same as a second screening, isn't it? Three screenings is IMO also too much with such a big queue, especially when every screener has the right to reject a picture anyway. So why not go for two screenings only. Having a single FIFO queue, every picture accepted from two screeners is added to the database. Just two screeners at work (also in sequence) would be able to manage the queue very well.

Thanks to the crew for the current active discussion about this!

Markus
Markus Herzig - Swiss Helicopters, Pilatus Porter and Aviation Photography
 
RayPettit
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:04 am

I'm all for introducing the "badtoomuch" rejection reason that Heliporter touched on. Uploading say 20 shots taken from the same viewpoint does not do the photographer much good - I just skip over them. If there was a rule that meant that only so many shots could be submitted within 24 hours would solve some of the queue delays in itself. What would be a good limit? 10? 15?

And as for the new stats, I agree with others that such a feature just encourages people to do a mass upload. If your name is featured there, its another way of increasing your hits as some punters surely view the images via this route (as well as others). Hey, I even contemplated this, but have now decided to be fairer! The stats feature may be important to many for 'ego' reasons, but if you retain it, put it in a 'back alley' so it doesn't get so much attention. Statto's can then still check their stuff.

Patiently waiting for my five submissions to appear amongst the Fairford stuff...

Ray
 
Skymonster
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RE: Queue Growing Again

Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:16 am

We've discussed the quantity limit before and the conclusion (or a directive from the boss, can't remember which) was that an unload limit would artificially restrict uploads and might drive submitters elsewhere, and that the site doesn't want to do that. I agree that seeing many photographs from the same photographer all on the database together doesn't encourage me to view, but clearly some photographers regard things differently or they wouldn't upload so many pictures at the same time. And in any case, very few photographers shoot pictures every day, so if we had a 20-a-day limit and they had 60 photographs to upload, they'd just upload them over three days rather than upload them all on one day.

On the other hand, it could be argued (and this is my opinion only, not an "official" view) that the length of the queue in itself goes some way to constraining the number of uploads. Some photographers may limit their uploads voluntarily, or might just not bother with quite so many uploads, if they see that the queue is long or that they're going to have to wait a while for processing. If the queue was very short, it might actually encourage more repetitive uploads...? Who knows.

Anyway, the queue length will ebb and flow - I don't think its quite at crisis point just yet!

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots

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