bigphilnyc
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Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:43 am

I know this is like an Airbus vs. Boeing thread, but I want to have a serious discussion about it here.

Let's list FACTUAL differences between the two cameras. Advantages and disadvantages. Share you experiences.

I jsut don't want this to be an ARGUMENT or a bitch-slapping thread.

Now then, which is better?
Phil Derner Jr.
 
ckw
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:56 am

I doubt you can get an unbiased view as I'm not aware of anyone who owns equivalent outfits from both camps. Whatever the relative merits, I'm used to the way Canons handle - any Nikon feels clumsy in my hands.

For what its worth, I read a review last night in one of the UK digital mags which compared all the current DSLRs (including the new Kodak). The 10D was placed first - part of this for sure was down to value for money - the D100 is certainly overpriced here in the UK.

Personally I'm not sure there is a clear cut advantage to either camera as such - both are well below par when compared to their respective prosumer film comparators (EOS-3/F100) - and any photographer worth their salt will be able to optimise the strengths and work round the weaknesses.

For me the more significant difference is the system surrounding the camera - I think the Canon lens line-up is an overall better package. I also find Canon's track record on innovation and development over the last 10 years more reassuring than Nikon's - at present I have more confidence in Canon coming up with a worthy successor to my 10D than Nikon.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
andyhunt
Crew
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:58 am

Why compare........seems pointless to do that, because

1) You won't reach a conclusion
2) Both are great cameras

Suggest we leave it at that rather than see another thread degenerate into a pointless exercise.

Andrew

Full frame always beats post processing
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:00 am

Well let's say I am going to buy a camera. I need to know the advantages to both, right?

That's why I'm not looking for a debate. I'm looking for factual advantages.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
andyhunt
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:08 am

As you like Phil, but let's see where this thread ends up............hope I'm wrong Big grin

So ARE you buying a Digital SLR, what lenses do you own, you could try

http://www.dpreview.com

Suggest you supplement your thread with other investigative sorties.

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
Guest

RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:10 am

Getting a fair test is something very hard to do. Remember different people use different lenses, techniques, post-processing, camera settings,etc... I personally see the 10D as the best of the two, however not everyone thinks the same way and its often down to the system you already own...

Tim
 
 
planephoto
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:27 am

For me it depends on the glass... I already own Nikon glass so it doesn't much matter, I have nikon. I had never seen or held a 10D until last week when I saw one at Circuit City. My initial reaction was that it felt cheap because it plasticy. I am use to the solid heavy feel of my Nikon. I think both companies have basically high quality equipment (unless you buy the really cheap consumer stuff, which I don't think is all that high quality from either company).

BUT... I have been using Nikon for over 10 years, it has never let me down, and I have no reason to change.

In stead of comparing the 10D and D100 it should be more equivalent bodies, like the D200  Smile

I think I have managed to use up 20 lines of text to be able to come up with no conclusive information other than I like Nikon b/c I use Nikon. Had I started with Cannon I would probably like it just as much. I am looking forward to the Nikon D200 and D2X, we will see then, maybe Nikon gets the edge. I was disappointed to see the D2H @ only 4mp but they were not going for big MP on that body anyway.

What about a MP comparison. Is everyone just looking for as much as you can get or is their a good point at which it really doesn't matter... i.e. is an 8MP SLR enough???? I would like to see the D200 with 14MP? - Scott
[ blog - http://www.scottfillmer.com ] | [ gallery - http://www.auburnimages.com ]
 
fallingeese
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:34 am

I chose to use a D100 since I was already using Nikon. I stated with Nikon, and liked how the felt, I looked at the 10D, but since I had enjoyed my Nikon so much, I decided to stay with Nikon and opt for the D100.

Both are incredible camera.

Probably the best comparison around:

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/D100vs10D.shtml
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
N178UA
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:39 am

Seems you are bored and seeking some fume and fun Phil ?  Big grin

Hope you don't get mad, but I am getting more impression that you tried to act clowns here?  Big grin Never mind!

Hope to see you in NYC with Tom in September

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:24 am

Well, to be honest, Sam, I really am curious as to the truthful differences between the two cameras.

But also, to be honest, I do like to clown around a bit here. I can understnad if some folks from otehr parts of the world don't get my humor, but I know that things can get very serious and even tense around here, and I like ot lighten the mood with an occasional joke thread or little silly comments.

People email me and let me know that I'm putting a smile on at least a FEW faces, so I liek to thinkt hat I contribute in that sense here.

I'm certainly not looking to cause trouble. If I ever cross the line, please jsut tell me and I would more than gladly retract my comments and apologize. I goof a little the way I do because I consider you folks to be an importnat part of my passion, which is also a part of my life.

I'd also like ot thinkt hat I do start a lot of serious and educational threads as well. I'm not ALL joking around.

And yes, I relaly do hope to see you in September. As for seeing me with Tom, it depends if him and I are still dating then. lol

Cheers,

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:38 am

As other people have said, the stuff you already have will play a very significant part in your decision. I'm currently using a Nikon F65 and I have Nikon lenses and accessories. If I do go digital, and I'm still not 100% convinced, then I sure as heck can't afford to lash out > £1,000 on a camera body that can't take my existing lenses and stuff. As things are today, my only choice would be the D100. If Nikon launch a 8-10mp D200 at £1,000, I'd have to be tempted though  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I read the Nikon brochure for the D100 and it showed a comparison of the 6mp vs a 35mm frame. The 6mp only covers about 30% of a 35mm frame. David Bailey wrote a magazine article last year saying that 'serious' professionals (I presume as opposed to general newspaper hacks) wouldn't switch to digital in place of 35mm till the cameras start to hit 15-16mp. As for replacing large format cameras, he didn't offer an opinion as to when that might happen!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
hkg_clk
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:26 am

The D100 was designed to compete against the D60, and even then the Canon often just edged ahead in many comparisons. The 10D is much improved over the D60, esp in things like Autofocusing, even lower noise levels, more iso range. I would recommend the 10D, especially if your starting anew and do not have lenses from either manufacturer.
See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
 
jwenting
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:01 pm

You're wrong there Hkg.
The D60 and now the 10D were designed to compete with the D100 which entered the market first...

In the end between the 10D and D100 it's all down to personal preference.
If you don't have Nikon or Canon equipment yet (in which case the choice is obvious) go to stores and try them both.
Given the price they should let you try one for a few hours (on a deposit and leaving behind some ID of course so they can track you if you don't bring it back).
Then make a choice based on the handling of the camera rather than some emotional argument from a salesperson whose only business is to sell the camera that gives him the highest margin (Canon) or someone here who has an irrational hatred for one brand or the other.

My personal preference (after trying several cameras from both brands as well as others) is Nikon for their more efficient control layout and more substantial feel.
But that is personal and others might like the Canon layout better.
I wish I were flying
 
ckw
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:54 pm

The D60 and now the 10D were designed to compete with the D100 which entered the market first

Sorry, that's not quite right - the D60 and D100 (and SD9) were all "launched" in Feb. 2002, but the D60 was available a good 2 months before the D100. IMHO this was a major piece of luck for Canon - or poor planning from Nikon.

The cameras are so similar that I'm convinced it was this fact alone which determined the DSLR market leader.

Whether the 10D was built to compete with the D100 is open for debate. I think the D60 held its own against the D100 in terms of image quality, though the D100 certainly has better AF and some other desirable features.

The 10D in my mind was more likely an attempt to address the various criticisms levelled at the D60. These were catered for pretty much item by item, yet various D100 features were not replicated.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
LGW
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:57 pm

No real comparison available really as has been said the rule normally wirks like this

You own Nikon glass = You buy a D100/D1H/D1X etc

You own Canon glass = You buy a D30/D60/10 etc

You own Sigma lenses you buy Canon or Nikon depending on the mount of the Sigma glass

You own other glass = unlucky

Ben Pritchard
 
aagold
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:23 pm

The others are right. You're not going to get a clinical answer to your question from either a Canon or Nikon owner as to the differences and why they own them. You need to read the reviews to see what they have to say as a result of their benchmark tests and make a decision based on that.

You know I'm Nikon all the way. Have been since I purchased my first one in 1970 and have never had anything but good experiences with them for both my land and underwater cameras. When it came time to buy the D100 I did read the reviews and compared both cameras thoroughly. While I had Nikon glass already it really wasn't a consideration because that glass technically could be used on the D100, but without any of the automated focus/metering features so what good are they. The majority, especially here on the forum, touted Canon over Nikon probably because it did come out first and got the jump on Nikon. But in the end I decided to stick with what my experience has taught me over the years ... that Nikon is a top-notch camera.

And the rest of the story you know. I bought it, I've shot almost 10k pictures with it and I love it.

Art
 
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:50 pm

I tried the D100 with a high end lens and found the AF slower than the 10D, even than the D30. A fast AF is the most important feature in my opinion (esp. when you want to take pictures of military aircraft).

Of course you can read reviews and forums, but only trust yourself. Go to a shop an check them out yourself. I've read a lot of things in reviews or on forums that were not true (e.g. bad functioning of sigma-lenses on the 10D).

I agree the D100 is a decent camera but two of my friends switched their Nikon SLR for the Canon 10D. Sure i'm biased but it's just an observation (or my bad influence) Big grin

Sven
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ckw
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:31 am

bad functioning of sigma-lenses on the 10D

Is in fact true - depending on the lens and when it was made - some Sigma lenses DO require chipping to operate properly with the 10D. Sigma are aware of this and will perform the necessary service (for a small fee).

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Granite
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:54 am

Hi all

Phil, all I can say is wait till you see the D30 prints that are on the way.

Review, digest, gasp in awe then decide if you think Canon is up to the job.........and it's a D30 which is about 20 years old now  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
planephoto
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:10 am

Well, for what it's worth I love my Nikon stuff but I went to shoot today and my D100 broke as soon as I got to the airport (wish I had a backup DSLR). All I get is an 'err' and the mirror seems to be malfunctioning. It just flops around (maybe a busted spring or something). At least it is under warranty (barely) so it is off to the service center (BTW this body is on about the 12,000 picture count).

I have owned 5 Nikon SLR's (one DSLR) and this is the first one to break, guess it was bound to happen eventually but it stinks when it does. Anyone else have that problem with the D100?  Sad

Scott

P.S. Guess I will get the sensor cleaned while it's up there... anyone have any idea what Nikon (or Canon for that matter) charges for cleaning the sensor?
[ blog - http://www.scottfillmer.com ] | [ gallery - http://www.auburnimages.com ]
 
jwenting
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:18 pm

Whether the 10D was built to compete with the D100 is open for debate. I think the D60 held its own against the D100 in terms of image quality, though the D100 certainly has better AF and some other desirable features

That too is debatable. There have been many reports of problems with D60 output (mainly colour ballance and softness).
Never believe magazine comparisons as most are sponsored (without telling so of course) by a manufacturer, and it's a wellknown fact that Canon spends a lot more on marketing and is a lot more agressive than is Nikon.
I wish I were flying
 
wietse
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:51 pm

If you call this soft and bad color balance, I don't know what you expect...

http://home.planet.nl/~degraaf001/pics/145-4506_CRW-1.jpg

And BTW, this is heavily compressed to reduce size...


[Edited 2003-07-27 10:52:21]
Wietse de Graaf
 
LGW
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:07 pm

Wietse,

Great shot, colours and sharpness. Was that shot on the day I was @ AMS? If so can I ask for your full exif info on the shot please?

Jwenting and others,

CANON DSLR IMAGES ARE MEANT TO BE SOFT Sorry for shouting but I have given up remembering the number of times I have said this so please take it on board this time!

Ben Pritchard
 
ckw
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:24 pm

Much of the negative comments about DSLRs (regardless of brand) are down to people expecting perfect results straight out the camera. DSLRs don't do this.

Nor should they - for example, we all know (I hope) that the degree of sharpening to be applied to an image should be determined by final use - an 8x10 print requires a different level of sharpening to an A.net image. Output from a DSLR should be soft in order to allow sharpening to requirements.

The reported differences between D60/D100 are in most cases, not absolutes, but the differences in default output. Much of this can be altered when processing the RAW/NEF file - and has as much to do with the processing software as the camera itself.

There are, of course SOME absolutes - the D60 cannot, for example, use the AdobeRGB colour space. The D100 cannot produce the noise free 100 ISO images of the D60.

Canon spends a lot more on marketing and is a lot more agressive than is Nikon.

Agreed, which as I said earlier, is probably the main reason for the D60s dominance. Reviews can't be entirely trusted, though they can provide a basis for comparison if samples are included. Nor can individual "user" experience - at least 70% of complaints regarding either camera are down to "user error" or false expectations.

The only answer is to get your hands on these beasts, and try them for yourself - it is clear that any of the current DSLRs can produce outstanding results - you can't buy a "bad" one, choose the body and system that feels right for you.

Cheers,

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
wietse
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:59 pm

Yeah it was the 23rd. So here is the full EXIF

2003:07:23 11:13:48
100.0-400.0mm @ 400.0mm
1/500 sec, f/8.0
Mode: Av
Metering: Evaluative
ISO: 100
AF mode: AI Servo AF
Drive: Continuous: 1
White balance: Auto
Flash: Off
File size: 5,893KB
Image size: 3072 x 2048
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Contrast: Normal
Custom Functions:
CFn 4: Tv/Av and exposure level: 1/3 stop
CFn 11: Menu button return position: Previous (top if powered off)
CFn 12: SET button function when shooting: Change ISO
Wietse de Graaf
 
lanpie
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:37 pm

I do not have a digital camera yet. I am using a Nikon F80 with two different Nikon zoom lenses, a 28 - 105 mm and a 70 - 300 mm. I am getting good photos from that camera.

The price for a Nikon D100 in Montreal stores is around $2,600 CAD plus taxes. It is still to expensive for me and the ISO start at 200 according to the publicity.

I would prefer a digital camera with a lower ISO ex:64 or 100.

Pierre
 
DB777
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:57 am

There's a pretty humorous thread about the wonderful 10D at:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5140039

A nickel to whoever figures out who JPCAP is ........ hahaha.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:01 am

I don't read it yet but let me guess...

JPCAP.... Joe Pries - Cool Aircraft Photos

Luis

 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:12 am

yes thats me after a rough first week with the 10D. Luckily it was my stupidity and not the camera in the end.

Joe A.T. TEAM or CAP- Commercial Aviation Photography
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:20 am

Just kidding Joe, so Mr. Boyd you can send one nickel to:

PO Box 589
8000 Faro
Portugal

always welcome one more coin for the collection Big grin
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:24 am

no problem Luis, even if you were serious its no big deal  Big grin -let me tell you i was a nervous wreck that week, i just got the 10D, i sold my D60 to Yevgeny's step-son, and i had a contract job to do THAT WEEKEND and the 10D, until i put it in center focus point did not work too well for me, so i was going crazy trying to figure out why, instead of being calm and cool- even my wife felt bad for me  Big grin -in the end it all worked out and the 10D has served me very well, its a wonderful machine.

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
mirage
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:32 am

As a matter of fact Joe, you have indeed cool aircraft photos.

Luis
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:36 am

thanks Luis, and you take some awesome photos yourself, of the highest highest quality- i love your photos, you definetely have an eye for how to do it properly  Big grin

Joe A.T. TEAM
 
janne
Posts: 367
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 5:27 am

Well, BigPhilNYC. I read your starting comment about not making this discussion
into a war.
I couldn't agree more and only want to make my own contribution to keep
this discussion on an intellectual level by saying:

Canon 10D RULES!!!
Nikon D100 SUCKS!!!
Everyone who don't agree are SUCKERS!!!

/jl
p.s. Only joking of course?
 
DB777
Posts: 864
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:24 am

I thought the CAP stood for Canon Agonizing Photogs? I've never seen a photog cry and moan like I saw in numerous comments throughout that thread.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
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RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10D - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:18 am

Don, CAP stands for Canons Are Painful. I just finished reading that link http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5140039 and could not believe it. Sounded like Joe was about to hurt himself....bad....painful!

Mike
 
DB777
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Nikon D100 Vs. Canon 10Dog - Once And For All

Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:17 pm

In just one (below) of JPCAP's several posts in that thread, you can almost feel the Canon pain - it must be really awful to be tortured by Canon. I hope he wasn't trying to influence kids in this a.net forum to buy Canon equipment at the same time he was into this Canon B&D stuff.  Smile

Don

JPCAP: "Steve youre 10000% right, i'm a guy who shot thousands of frames with my D60 in the past year with all L glass, i know whats good and whats bad and my 10D is a sick dog. I'm a canon man for life and am totally married to my EOS system, this is not a focusing problem, it doesnt matter what focusing points i choose- i have used my D60 with my 70-200 2.8 IS and 2x converter at full 640mm and the worst shot i got with that is better than any shot with my new 10D. The thing that stinks is that i sold my D60 to a friend and now i have to ask him to take it back while i figure out my 10D mess with Ecost.com- hopefully they'll be ok with me as i've spent thousands with them in the past 2 years."
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