manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:37 am

Right then, I would have linked to the previous postings on this topic but the older messages don't appear to be there anymore. Anyway, in summary I found out that BA News had used my photo
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Photo © Rez Manzoori

in the 22nd May issue.

I have tried to enter into negotiations with the editor of BA news to try to gain a suitable recompense. Sadly the editor has absolutely no idea what negotiation means and has for the past 2 months completely blanked my attempts at communication.

Finally I have managed to get a message through to indicate that I am still pursuing this matter only to have a curt e-mail telling me basically this is the final offer, a cheque has been despatched, take it or leave it.

The frustrating bit is that it's not like this is the end of a protracted discussion... far from it!

The best bit is that the cheque has duly arrived in a BA envelope with a similar curt message on a BA compliment slip, but the cheque.... is a PERSONAL cheque!!! The editor actually thinks I am trying to get money from him/her!!!!

Can anyone suggest who would be a more appropriate person to be talking to as it seems "BA" don't actually know this has happened and the editor is trying to hide the fact. I should point out I'm not trying to get the editor into trouble, but his/her attempts at coverign this up seem to be inevitably leading me down this path!

Thanks in advance,

Rez  Big thumbs up
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:18 am

Rez - The problem is that if you do pursue this one, it could quite easily cost the Editor his/her job! T.
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:41 am

Talk to a lawyer. Seriously.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13229
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RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:46 am

I'd agree with G-CIVP - maybe the editor made a genuine mistake and has hoped you'd just 'go away', but has now sent you a cheque in the hope it won't go any further. It would have been better if he'd just 'owned up' to his boss right at the start. Tough call, but I'd just cash the cheque and put it down to experience - at least you sold a shot!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:07 pm

Steve,

I would be tempted to cash said cheque etc were it not for the way in which the editor has played this which I find most galling.

I have tried every way possible to try to be accomodating, suggesting ways in which an organisation like BA might be able to compensate me in terms other than fiscal, trying to maintain a regular contact... trying everything I could think of to encourage a dialogue.

After two months of trying, to be dismissed like this has simply got me angry. I think I will try Phil's advice!

Cheers

Rez
 Angry  Angry
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13229
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:08 pm

Rez,

Your call of course, but talking to a lawyer will probably cost you more than any compensation you might get.

Steve.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:37 pm

Tell him you will indeed contact his superiors unless he gets his act together.
After that, it is up to him what happens to his ass.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:09 pm

You took the shot from a BA plane (ie BA property), of BA aircraft on the ground - did you ask their permission before taking the shot? No. So why should they ask permission to use your photo of their property?


-
 
manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:46 am

Because it has a copyright attached to it.

It's the same with anyone's photo on this website. The image copyright belongs to the original photographer. If someone other than the copyright holder uses the image without permission then effectively that is theft.

Hence my attempts to gain suitable recompense.

Rez
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:50 am

I'm quite astounded that this situation has developed in the way it has. Anyway; Rez have you decided what your next move is?
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:06 pm

Hi Manzoori,

I have a law degree (LLB) and will be becoming a lawyer in about two years.

I have helped a few friends in their quest for justice - plus undertaking a personal case against my dentist - and I have won every case. Accordingly, I am offering my services free-of-charge (as experience) to you.

If you would like to chat further, please e-mail me.

Cheers,

James.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

Hey TG992

Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:40 pm

Your comments are way off base.

The photographer who took this photo paid airfare to fly on BA's plane so your arguement doesn't fly. He agreed to BA's conditions of carriage. They said here is your price to fly from A to B and he paid it accordingly. He doesn't owe BA anything else!



Jay
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:10 am

I guess I was more concerned about the moral issue here - sure, BA News should have asked for permission to use the shot - but at the end of the day it's a staff magazine, not for the general public - I feel it is a little on the nose for someone to demand money from the very company that makes these beautiful aircraft available for the photographer to fly on!

If this had happened to me, I would have emailed the editor, saying 'hey, you used my shot, I'm glad you like it and I enjoy flying on your airline and taking pictures of your aircraft, but I would appreciate you giving me a photo credit and/or asking my permission next time you use one of my shots'. I certainly wouldn't demand anything - definitely not money!


JayDavis - take a look at this part of BA's Contract of Carriage -

11.3 Electronic devices

For safety reasons, we may forbid or limit operation aboard the aircraft of electronic equipment, including, but not limited to, cellular telephones, laptop computers, portable recorders, portable radios, CD players, electronic games or transmitting devices, including radio controlled toys and walkie-talkies. Operation of hearing aids and heart pacemakers is permitted.

It doesn't look like the aircraft had reached cruise, so was the photographer breaching their contract of carriage by using his digital camera?
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manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: Illegal Photo Usage-The Saga Continues

Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:52 pm

You are correct in the statements of carriage. However I should point out that when the announcement was made on the flight I specifically checked with the cabin crew about the use of the camera and they had no objections. Sadly I neglected to take down the name rank and serial number of the crewmember as I didn't think it would turn into this issue!  Wink/being sarcastic

It's interesting the line you are taking on this. Since it was a picture taken on a BA flight, of BA aircraft and used in a BA publication that I should simply let them get away with Copyright theft?

If they had asked for my permission to use in the first place then I would have simply let them use it and asked for a credit and consideration for further photo uses.

They didn't. They simply went ahead, used the photo. It was on this basis that I wrote to them to point out the error of their ways and to request suitable compensation.

Notice that in all my attempts at communication and in this posting I am referring to 'them' and 'they', meaning BA. Whilst one person may be ultimately responsible for this transgression, I have no desire whatsoever to single out any one person.

The editor has chosen to make him/herself responsible, to the point of writing out a personal cheque rather than a corporate cheque. This to me suggests a cover-up.

James,

Thanks very much for the offer mate, I'll be in touch!

Cheers!

Rez  Big thumbs up
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