Skymonster
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Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:40 am

Same place, same time, same subject

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy Martin
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Photo © Art Brett


One D100, one D60. You decide! Big grin
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:43 am

to make an honest comparison we need to see the original files, I would be happy to host them on my website if you two are game.
 
mirage
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:44 am

and one edited by Andy Martin and the other edited by Art Brett Big grin

Luis
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:48 am

Luis, all I did was crop, colour balance, resize, and USM. I've offered the original jpeg to Royal and asked Art if he's up for it too!

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
mirage
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:15 am

I note the D100 grain, but that can be solved... I agree with Royal, let's see the original files.

Luis
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:38 am

http://www.andymartin.btinternet.co.uk/IMG_7756.JPG

Straight from the camera, no processing whatsoever. Warning - 1.2mb

Andy
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Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:43 am

PS: Despite this picture and anything Art might imply, there is simply NO truth in the rumour that my Concorde picture was taken with a Nikon D100 Big grin



Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Marco_Polo
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:50 am

Quality of D60 seems much cleaner.

Cheers - Jay
 
ckw
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:14 am

D100 looks sharper, though noisier ... could it be the difference in the in-camera sharpening? Blues are quite different - be honest now guys, which closer matches the sky that day?

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
aagold
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:19 am

Andy, Andy, Andy ... et tu Andy!

Why me? I go shooting with JP and the next thing I know they're comparing our shots of the Frontier A319 at LGA and the Canon vs. Nikon wars are on. I go shooting with you and here we go again ... the never ending Canon vs. Nikon. Now you know that no matter what happens we aren't going to change a single opinion on either side. We never have that I know of.

Yes, I'm game of course. Like Andy I did very little to my pic. A little levels (notice more detail in the top of the wing nearest the fuselage and not so bright), crop, USM and my little color secret that I shared with you. And, in all honesty, I couldn't tell you which of the two skies looked like the one that day. Haven't the foggiest. It was a blue sky and both have blue skies.

Now, about the original image. Unlike Andy's mine was shot RAW and converted to HQ Jpg and is 5.9mb. So, being in ATL on a dial up no way I'm e-mailing that to anyone tonight. I can do it over the weekend.

Will these senseless wars never end? But, if they did we probably wouldn't have any fun anyhow, would we?

Let the wars begin.

Art

P.S. Andy, in all honesty I fixed and submitted that photo because it was the one I liked best of the series. I had no idea that you had uploaded the almost identical shot. Had I known that I might have selected another. You did, however, manage to catch the damn beacon though ... you bugger!
 
mirrodie
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:43 am

Gentlemen, we have liftoff!

It was a pleasure watching the birth of this new war begin! :-P LOL

And Andy, send me those photos when you get a chance!  Big grin

Great finally meeting you!

And thanks to you both for coming out for the Travel Channel shoot. I think we truly have a chance of all being on it.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:55 am

Canon sucks open ass.
 
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:34 pm

Royal! Don't tell me you're one of them! I had you pegged for a Canon-head. Most creative, witty, talented people are!

Ah well, nobody's perfect...

Brian - SPOT THIS!
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:44 pm

To be honest, the only beef I have with Nikon is that it ALWAYS seems to require extra work adjsuting the levels nad brightness/contrast. Canon pics seem to come out with perfect light.

Jsut my opinion.

I'm surpirsed at this thread. Looks like trouble.  Big grin

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:10 pm

If I was on a budget I would prob. go with Canon, but I'm not, so, I don't
 
jwenting
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:38 pm

Neither the photos here NOR the original files tell you anything at all.
With all digicams the original file is NOT meant as a benchmark, but as a starting point for digital manipulation.
The maximum achievable end result of that manipulation is what should be compared. That result should be achieved by a master in the craft without telling him the origin of the files (though a true master would probably recognise instantly the type of camera used from past experience) and having the same master do the best he can on both originals.
That is the only way to get rid of personal skill differences and preferences of different people.
Of course that still does not get rid of the differences in the used optics.
For that both cameras should be fitted with the same lens, which means using a 3rd party lens from for example Sigma or Tokina as those are the only ones that work on both camera brands (and if we include an SD9 in the test only Sigma remains).
AFAIK such a comprehensive comparison has never been executed because noone (least the camera manufacturers and their representatives) is interested in doing it, instead only wanting to show the superiority of their own favourite by comparing its output (highly optimised) with sub-optimal output from competing cameras.
I wish I were flying
 
N178UA
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:11 pm

I just cannot believe Andy start another post like this after people such as BigPhilNYC already attempted to throw punches to him and he also said he was one of the most hated on A.net in EWR show??  Big grin

For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Carlos Borda
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:14 pm

Two words Sam.... "Soccer Hooligan". Those guys are fearless!  Big grin

~Los

Sam writes:

>>I just cannot believe Andy start another post like this after people such as BigPhilNYC already attempted to throw punches to him and he also said he was one of the most hated on A.net in EWR show??<<
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:54 pm

OK, OK... I'm sorry.

I sent a postcard of my pic to Art, and I assumed he'd deliberately uploaded his pretty much identical shot, maybe just to provoke such a debate after all the gentle Canon vs Nikon ribbing that went on at Howard Beach last Sunday.

My raising the topic was therefore tongue-in-cheek - I had no real desire to start another Canon vs Nikon war because, as Art says, it'll never sway the dedicated user away from their existing equipment choice.

Oh well... Its done now  Sad

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:06 pm

Nikon sucks and I will fight to the death until Canon reigns without question!

Ok, maybe not. I just like to look at plane pictures. How bout you? :-p

Phil Derner Jr.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:17 pm

How about me? How about you is the question. I think saying things like that Art's not going to be picking you up to go to the airport much in future! Big grin

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:54 pm

I'm torn. Tom let's me use his Canon and Art lets me use his Nikon. WHO DO I SIDE WITH!

I'll have to play on the fence until i get my 10D...I mean my D100. DAMN!

Phil Derner Jr.
 
photopilot
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:08 pm

It doesn't matter what "they" think of "your" photo. The question really has to be "are YOU satisfied with your purchase?" "Is your customer satisfied (assuming you have one) with the quality you provide to them?" Anything else is strictly subjective and debating the point ad-nausium is strictly a waste of oxygen.

Those that matter don't mind.
Those that mind, don't matter.

Steve
 
Skymonster
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:26 pm

Steve, I think you're taking this topic far too seriously. Myself and Art, along with many others including Brian, Justin, Phil, Tom, Mike, etc spent the weekend taking pics together and there was a fair bit of light-hearted banter about Canon versus Nikon. Sure its spilled over into the forum, but Art provided the perfect opportunity to keep the wind-up going. Great thing is, despite the difference of opinions, we remained good friends - heck, I even had my picture taken holding a N... n... nnnnikon!

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:31 am

Yeah, this stuff is just a fun jab among friends, nothing to be taken seriously.

Phil Derner Jr.
 
aagold
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:54 am

Yes, for sure. We are and always will be good friends regardless of the type camera we use. We just love the friendly banter and internal fight. Gives us something to do. And, btw Phil, how are you getting to the airport the next time we go? Shame on you. I shall never let you use my D100 again even when you are frothing at the mouth.

But, most of you really missed the difference between the Canon and Nikon user. It appeared (I believe) earlier in the thread, at least one side of it. Present were Mike P., Mike M. and myself, the Nikon users, and Andy M., Justin C., Brian S. and Tom T., the Canon users. Notice we Nikoners were out numbered by the Canonites. We wanted to take a pic of the group and they put a Canon on the tripod and wanted to set the self-timer. Took the four of them 30 minutes to figure out how to use the self-timer. When it came time to take the same pic with the Nikon it was placed on the tripod and the owner, who shall remain unnamed, promptly got the user manual out to find out how to set the self-timer. So, at least us Nikoners are better prepared than the Canonites.

Surprised Joe. P hasn't jumped into this by now!

Art
 
photopilot
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:31 am

Ok guys.... in the interest of good fun.

Canon sucks

Nikon Rules.

Enough Said

Steve
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:37 am

"Art writes: Surprised Joe. P hasn't jumped into this by now!"

Guess "crooked eye inflight Joe" is busy doing some BBQ in his new backyard.

Wow, now I am very disappointed how long did it take it to figuere out how the selftimer works???? Jeez, can't be that hard. Not more than 10 sec it should take......

Anyway I am proud of you Nikon guys, even though you were out numbered, you still figuered it out.

That tells me that we Nikon users are way smarter than the others......

Go Nikon.


Vasco



 
Joge
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:07 am

all I did was crop, colour balance, resize, and USM

With all digicams the original file is NOT meant as a benchmark, but as a starting point for digital manipulation

I agree with Jwenting. You can freely over- or underexposure the picture, tone it... You guys know what all you can do. Anyway, Andy's original picture for instance may have been darker than Art's... Or maybe Art darkened his photo? You can't compare these two pictures here. Not even the original versions as they are probably taken with different settings (color balance, USM...). What I WOULD like to see here is same plane, same place, same time also taken with the same camera model and lens BUT by a different photographer, with different settings and picture edited two different ways.

-Joge
Bula!
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:19 am

Have another one for you guys.......


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Serge Bailleul



Vasco

p.s. ain't this fun?????
 
JayDavis
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:47 am

Okay, we can just stop this arguement and thread dead in its tracks.

Canon rules, Nikon sucks! It is simple as that.

All of you Nikon users are just "wanna-be" photographers, while the extremely intelligent group of Canon uses already KNOW that we ARE photographers !!

Seriously, if you'll notice at ANY professional or college sporting event, the far greater number of Canon gear over that plastic light box stuff known as Nikon.

Canon is number 1, Nikon is number 2............

Similar to Hertz versus Avis................

Nikon keeps trying harder but just doesn't cut it.............

And where the heck IS Joe Pries when you need him?


Jay
 
mirage
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:58 am

I use Canon but I don't give a sh*t about this "wars", Jay if you watch National Geographic, see that Nikon is very very used.

Luis
 
Joge
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:07 am

Hahahah!

Jay, I like your sense of humor!  Big thumbs up

-Joge
Bula!
 
wietse
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:07 am

Vasco, Great shot, but I think your lens is far superior.. Smile Great one though!

Too bad the weather was too bad for me to go to AMS when you came around, hope you had a great time!

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
JayDavis
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Comments To Mirage

Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:37 am

The reason why National Geographic uses Nikon's is that they are part of the Smithsonian Museum if I remember correctly. This means that it is a government agent in the US and the GSA (General Services Administration), which is the purchasing agent for the US Government requires that the LOWEST bid be used on any equipment..........lowest bid = lower quality.....

ha ha ha !!

Just messing with you...........



Jay
 
mirage
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RE: Comments To Mirage

Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:03 am

it looks one of those conspiracy theories  Smile

Luis
 
Guest

RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:12 am

Jay,
Good theories  Big thumbs up

Seriously speaking I must be one of the rare ones to have both Nikon and Canon photos on the database. Up to now I have had 3 Nikon cameras and 1 Canon. With each of the Nikon cameras I have quite a load of frustration, whilst with my Canon I really have nothing to say. I personally find the Canons a heck easier to use. Though I have noticed that Canon DSLRs tend to have a little reddish cast. Though one of my Nikons really saturated red colours.

Cheers,
Tim
 
timdegroot
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:29 am

Wasn't national geographic the magazine that accepted kodachromes with dots on them? About sums it up what quality they expect Big grin

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
JayDavis
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:49 am

Yes, exactly !!

I think that National Geographic ONLY accepts kodachromes with blue dots on them. I bet that Joe Pries guy might actually get published in a real magazine if he sent some of his slides to them. But I wouldn't tell them what superior camera equipment he is using compared to their employees and those crappy, plastic Nikons !!


Jay
 
jwenting
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:06 pm

Jay, National Geographic photographers are supposed to buy their own equipment.
Most therefore buy Nikon despite Kwanon being cheaper.

Same reason NG also uses a lot of Provia. Their photographers use it despite pressure from the big bad US government to "buy American made in Mexico".

I've met one pro who works repeatedly for NG. He uses Nikon exclusively, using Fuji film.
Why? Because they're simply the best. Not just the equipment is AT LEAST as good as anything Canon has to offer, but it doesn't fail him no matter where he works be it the Amazon, the Sahara or the North Pole (and yes he's worked those places).
And if something were to fail, he can trust Nikon to get him a replacement within days no matter where he may be (be it in a tent in the Gobi).
I wish I were flying
 
JayDavis
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Comments To Jwenting

Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:05 pm

Hey Dude, lighten up; I've just been kidding about all of this subject matter. This debate will go on and on and on until the end of time, unless Nikon or Canon REALLY screw up somehow. I will say that I think you might be wrong about Canon being cheaper than Nikon. I don't see any Nikon product costing $7000.00, which is what a D1s from Canon cost these days.

Both are good camera manufacturers with good products.

The reason I am a Canon man is that when all the auto-focus cameras came out in the mid-80's; to me, Canon seemed a tad quicker on the auto-focusing and that is why I made my Canon purchase over Nikon. So now that I've bought into the Canon system I certainly don't plan on changing over to a far inferior product such as Nikon..........(I'm kidding !!!!)

Now concerning the Fuji versus Kodak part of your message. I've shot both and am pleased with both. I know Joe Pries and a ton of others continue to shoot ONLY Kodachrome because so many of the buyers/traders ONLY want Kodachrome slides. That's fine and I can see Joe's and others reasons for continuing to shoot it. I decided to change over to Fuji mainly because I could get my slides back quicker. I live in Dallas and there is no Kodachrome lab in our area. Heck, I think there are only two left in the US? Not for certain about this though. So that is the main reason I changed to Fuji slide film; the ease of getting it developed quicker. I have tried to tell Joe that he should give Fuji a try due to the "blue dots" on slides situation that is occurring these days, but he won't change, for now, as he has to please his customers. I don't have customers, so I can shoot whatever film I want and I've chosen to go with Fuji.............


 
Joge
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:24 pm

Jay,

I thought you were shooting digital...?
Bula!
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:27 am

I wish !!

I'm still shooting film. I've got a Canon EOS 1VHS and until I can afford a "real" Canon Digital camera, I'm going to have to continue shooting film.

I'm looking at the 1Ds or the D60 or the 1D............

But right now, I'm as broke as The Ten Commandments so I can't buy anything right now..........

If everyone on this list would like to make a nice donation to my cause, feel free to e-mail me and I'll give you my address where you can donate some money to my worthwhile cause..............

Thanks!

Jay
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:13 pm

Wietse,

I had fun in AMS,even though the weather was not what I expected, but I'll be back next year in spring for another airside tour....

About the lens, well I used the convertor as well, otherwise it would have even been sharper!

Vasco


For Jay,

if I were you I would sell that EOS 1V and take a plunge and buy a " real camera"

Why would you cash out USD 7000.00 when you get a similar product for less money with superior quality..........  Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:41 pm

Vasco, the EOS 1VHS doesn't cost $7000.00 USD.
It was about $2200.00 when I bought it.

The EOS 1Ds is basically an EOS 1VHS, but digital and it has an 11 mega-pixel resolution, the same size as a full 35mm frame.

It rocks!


Jay
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2379
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:40 pm

Jay,

Sure it rocks, but why do you need a full 35mm sensor.....this is a true handicap for avaition photography. For portrait and landscape sure a cool thing, but if you need range, I'd rather go with the 1.5 or 1.6 crop factor!

V.

 
sleekjet
Posts: 2007
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:56 am

Jwenting: Your initial observation is quite interesting to me, a rookie photographer. I don't know if the lack of clarity in my pictures is more my fault, the camera's fault (Olympus C-700), or my inability to use Photoshop properly.

I have to know the source of the problem before I ascertain the solution. And I bet the experts will say, "It's all three!"
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Rotate
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:18 am

Canon D10 vs Nikon D100


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Photo © Tobias Rose
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Photo © Rotate



i like both  Smile/happy/getting dizzy might be its because of the A343  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

ABC
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: Canon Vs Nikon Again

Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:26 am

Vasco,

I do an entire range of photography with my cameras, not just aviation shots. I also do modeling photos, family portraits and sports stuff also. So it would be EXTREMELY cool to have the 11 megapixels.

Jay

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