airmale
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Black And White Photos Classier

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:15 pm

Why arent there more of other airlines.


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.....up there with the best!
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
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RE: Black And White Photos Calssier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:18 am

I note that the thread has been read 41 times and this is the first response. I just clicked on it to see what a "calssier" was. If you meant "classier" I understand it now.

I am not one to believe that B&W photos are inherently superior to color. I think they have to be a better composition than a given color photo to be superior. Here in the US, California wines are usually better than French on a dollar-for-dollar comparison but some people will just never admit that either.

The B&W photo shown is nice enough but it would have worked in color too. I still shoot some black and white. Using Ilford XP in one of my cameras and whatever I can find in my 4x5.

The "superiority" of Black and White is, in my opinion, kind of a fable. Not everyone who shoots B&W is an Ansel Adams. I like the work of Richard Steinheimer too, especially the steam locomotives. I believe that he may have used B&W just because finer grain was available than in the color film of the time. Still, I think we might agree that it would be nice to be able to search the site for black and white photos.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
EGGD
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:42 am

I think in the cases of other subjects (particularly Portraits and nude photography), it is 'classier'. However, I don't think B&W really works with aviation, even if its a really artsy photo. Most of the better photos are very rich in colour.
 
heliporter
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:28 am

Nice clouds and/or nice background with much contrast can also works fine with B&W ... IMO

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Markus
Markus Herzig - Swiss Helicopters, Pilatus Porter and Aviation Photography
 
ExitRow
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:57 am

Black and white CAN be used in aviation photography and produce some stunning results. Just need to be creative and have a firm grasp of the fundamentals of contrast and tonal value. And in the following examples, EXCELLENT composition.




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Photo © Benoit Rajau

 
mirage
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:58 am

I like this one I just saw at Photosig:



very nice.

Luis
 
EGGD
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:08 am

William - Agreed, in some cases they can look great. I think B&W gives a great feeling of stillness, I guess thats why its used for still-life so much.. Doesn't really work with action shots IMO.

Luis - Wow... That is a great shot!
 
Skymonster
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:20 am

Fully support the thoughts already expressed... However, be aware that we have recently had some "clever" so-and-sos submit what are obviously digital pictures converted to grey (or for you guys in the US, gray!) scale. This does not, in the collective opinion of the screeners, accurately replicate black and white and therefore a fair number of such pictures have been rejected badcolor. So, by all means keep on submitting genuine black and white photos, but don't try and fake it please.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ckw
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:52 am

B&W is neither "better" nor "classier" than colour - it is simply different.

B&W photography is much more about form, light & shadow than colour. Sometimes colour distracts from the shape of the object and destroys the composition. In other cases colour IS the subject, and in some the shot could be equally made in either B&W or colour. For example, sometimes I'll shoot a colourful biplane in B&W to give the shot a "period" feel. Which brings me to Andy's point:

digital pictures converted to grey (or for you guys in the US, gray!) scale. This does not, in the collective opinion of the screeners, accurately replicate black and white

I hope what is meant is that the screeners are (rightly) rejecting simple grey scale conversions. It is true that this is not the same as a B&W image as some additional curve manipulation is required. I hope Andy didn't mean that we musn't submit B&W shots just because they were taken with a digital camera. As explained above, it is the subject & composition that should determine whether or not to use B&W, not the camera.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
wietse
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:58 am


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Photo © Wietse de Graaf



In this one I did indeed alter the levels and curves to give it a black and white look.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Skymonster
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:05 am

I think Andy's said all he is going to say on the subject...

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:14 am

http://www.airlinepics.com/displayrecord.php?src=3464
http://www.airlinepics.com/displayrecord.php?src=3461

My first time at the airport with my Rebel.... My how much better I've gotten  Big grin

Here are some more
http://www.airlinepics.com/displayrecord.php?src=1787
http://www.airlinepics.com/displayrecord.php?src=289 I really like that shot.
http://www.airlinepics.com/displayrecord.php?src=274 I think this is my favorite shot I have taken.

The sad part is those shots were with a 35mm point and click  Sad I only wish I had my Rebel then!

[Edited 2003-12-12 22:19:39]
Go big or go home
 
ExitRow
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:14 am

Bill thinks Andy's talking about himself in third person is pretty damn funny...

 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:20 am

That UA shot on my previous post was one of the first shots I ever took, I was a youngin' and it was with a disposable.
Go big or go home
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:11 pm

To add to Andy's comments.... recently it seems a handful of photogs have even resorted to converting their images to B&W when the color version has been rejected. Many of these have also been rejected for badcolor or scan.

~Los
 
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Bruce
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:39 pm

I dont understand.......are you saying that a digital image in which you discard color information/channels in photoshop is not as good as shooting in b/w film? Then how do you correctly turn a digital image into black/white?

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:30 pm

Bruce- I don't know anything about actually shooting in B&W, but I do know that not everyone knows how to correctly do it and/or convert in PS. Done right I think B&W photography can be very classy... I know a guy who does weddings in B&W and his stuff looks great. You gotta have an eye for it I guess...

~Los
 
heliporter
Posts: 136
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:52 pm

Sometimes a bit strange ... I see only pixels (.jpg) here at a.net and I'm really wonder why a screener should deal with the original medium (slide, negative, print, b&w, glasplate ...). The matter here should be good quality VIEWING PLEASURE and nothing else ... IMO.
Markus
Markus Herzig - Swiss Helicopters, Pilatus Porter and Aviation Photography
 
ckw
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:59 pm

Bruse - the response curve of B&W and colour film is quite different - whereas colour film needs to treat all colours equally. B&W tends to be slightly oversensitive to blue and undersensitive to green/yellow. So simply grey-scaling colour does not produce a B&W type tone curve.

In practice, grey-scaled images look rather flat - they lack the contrast & sparkle expected from quality B&W images. To get a good result, you need to play around with the individual colour channels - channel mixer in PS usually works well, but there are also a number of plugins you can get to do the job - often with B&W filter effects incorporated - I have seen (though not used) some which claim to reproduce the look of particular B&W films (eg. Tri-X, FP4 etc.)

Cheers.

Colin

Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
joe pries
Posts: 1922
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:58 pm

To me this works just fine especially on a nasty rainy day, i think the B&W lends very well here and thats why I did it. Plus its neat to see a brand new airplane as it may have looked in the b&w days


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cicadajet
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:00 am

Joe, thats an interesting point about the weather.

Not weather-related, but it reminds me that I always liked this one of yours as well.


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On the few occasions I attempted to convert a few shots to B&W the simple/short cut way (the only way I knew how really), I tended to run into some of the shortcomings that Andy and Colin mentioned.

Were you able to do a simple conversion to B&W like Weitse mentioned earlier, or did you have to employ any plug-ins etc?

Also while those concorde shots are outstanding that Anthony pointed out, I am not certain they'd all pass these days. They might. But, I could imagine one or all getting hit with a Bad Size, and then, possibly, Bad Centered, or even Bad Dupe and Bad Dark as well. That was 1999.
 
joe pries
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RE: Black And White Photos Classier

Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:35 am

Hi Tom,
i dont use plugins, all i do is desaturate in photoshop- then if i see that some other mods needs to be made i play with the color or contrast, etc- whatever it takes to nail it right.

Did Art talk to you about jan 2 Tom?

Joe
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