JeffM
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Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:15 am

Guys,
Our favorite policeman called me today. Seems there is some progress being made after all. He told me that they (patrols) have been told that it is NOT against the law to photograph the aircraft while on public property. There still remains some common sense exceptions.....

1.parking. DO NOT park along the street. YOU MUST have permission to use someone's parking area (rental car companies) unless you are parking in designated public parking areas. You will be stopped, possibly ticketed if your car is somewhere it shouldn't be. PERIOD. That includes, pulling over and shooting out the window.

2.the fence. DO NOT approach the perimeter fence. The exact distance is debatable, but in the past, 10-20 feet has been acceptable. Safe bet, don't go near it at all.

3.Obstruction/Interference. IF an officer deems your activity is obstructing traffic (standing in the road), or interfering with it (running back and forth across the street repeatedly), you can be cited for doing so. Stay well off the pavement, and cross the street like 'yo momma taught you.

4. "Posted" areas. No slack here for now. Stay OUT of areas that are posted with a "No Tresspassing" sign. They are legit, and you can be arrested and fined for disobeying the sign. This, he mentioned is 'workable' through the right channels. (OPS + City and County).

I know it is not much news, but what he was told, is OPS does not want to mess with us and has asked the Security/Police dept. to have us stop. Someone in the PD checked it out and guess what? It's NOT illegal (we knew that...) and they are not going to bother us unless there is reason to. Sounds like the beginning of a small 'pissing' contest starting. We may still get stopped and checked, which should not bother you much. BE polite, LISTEN to what the officer says. There may be circumstances where you may run into someone that is un-informed. Do the smart thing, and leave if that is what they ask you to do. There will always be other days, and no shortage of airlplanes.

This is by no means a complete list of do's and don'ts. Things change, be flexible. What we do need is some names. If those of you that work at the airport can 'sniff out' some names and numbers of people in Operations that deal with policy, and have the power to make things happen. Start writing them down. We need to approach these people smartly, no demands, no pressure, making them believe it is the right thing to do.

My letter to the Mayor has not been returned yet, but it is still early. I don't expect any movement on it for another week or so. Unless, the letter was partially responsible for the stuff I mentioned above.

Anyway, have fun. More as it becomes available. If everyone wants to email me directly at jeffreys.miller@comcast.net I'll send the next updates via email, and I can keep these information updates from becoming like the D30 users group posts. Or, if they provide any useful information to the rest of the forum, I'll just continue, and try to keep them short and sweet.


v/r
Jeff
 
N737MC
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:23 am

Awesome Jeff, thank you for the update. I am happy to hear that some progress is being made. Also Jeff, I will see if I can talk to someone in the airport ops dept and get some names..


Thanks

Aaron Mandolesi
 
JAL777
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:24 am

I think they should put a fence up for the fence just so we know where we can and cannot go.  Big grin
 
FrontierA319
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:53 am

Thanks Jeff, Its good that some progress has been made.


Chris.
A Whole different Animal!
 
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Bruce
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Memphis Photos

Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:35 am

Someday when you pass on, there will probably be a "Jeffrey Miller Aviation Viewing Park" to honor you for your efforts in going to bat for Denver's aviation enthusiasts.

Actually, a park is not a bad idea. Perhaps a little convincing them that they could build a place that would have parking spaces, be off the road, away from a fence, and at a good elevation to view and photograph. win-win situation. It enforces their "rules" while giving the residents a legal place to congregate. Kind of like what they did in Dallas with Founder's Paza. And who better to design (or consult with) such a park than the photographers themselves!

sigh. I guess that's just a dream that will never happen. Funding would be a very low priority.


[Edited 2004-02-14 01:37:11]
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
2912n
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:03 am

Jeff,

Thanks for dealing with people and concerns in a mature adult manner, as opposed to so many who just want to piss and moan and talk about how mean the cops/security/tsa/tow truck drivers etc...are.

I owe you a cold one in SAN if you ever venture this way!

Tony
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:39 pm

Cold one? Deal...!!

Seriously,..... Hopefully something good will come from our patience. I am getting a little tired of writing letters though.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:36 pm

Where do you guys park when you shoot up on 96th out by 8/26? As I will be there in a couple of days shooting, it would be nice to know.

Any info appreciated

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
vafi88
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:52 pm

Great news Jeff! Thanks!

The only problem is, is that they won't talk to us. But hey, we shoot and they boot - well, not anymore.

Vitaly
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:11 pm

It's a dirt road Eric. You'll know when you see it. Trust me.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:20 pm

Actually, I asked because above you said that I could get ticketed/questioned and/or talked to by the boys in blue, so I was just wondering if you parked on the side of the (seemingly desolate) road or actually knew of a place to park. Do you just park on the side of the road?

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:24 pm

Out near 08/26 there is kind of a 4 way intersection of dirt/gravel roads. One will call your name when you see it. Park on the little hill, or near it. Hard to describe, but you will see it as you head west, past the oil well.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:34 pm

Thanks, I hope for a great day of spotting ahead Monday or Tuesday.

DLKAPA

And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
An-225
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:39 pm

Awesome news, Jeff, thank you very much. I suppose that the only off-limits are is the famous hill, but I guess we'll see what we can do about it. It's also good that Romero kept his word.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Yup, if it has a sign, stay away. So far I think the "hill" is the only place. I'm not going to give up on that just yet.

Jeff
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:59 pm



I can see it now.......The Year is 2008........


Breaking News......Mr Jeff Miller of Denver Co. Has just annouced after months of consideration that he is seeking the Congressional seat in his district. Candidate Miller has been instrumental in putting to ease the Police concern about aviation photography at DIA and after 4 years spotter photogs are now themselves Deputized as security detail.

Candidate Miller will also be running on his military background in the US Navy.

Back to your regular programming

Good Job Jeff......when you get that finalized you'll have to come back to Seattle and give us a hand here with the POS.......Ill buy Breakfast and not talk politics Smile

Regards
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
BDLGUY
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:09 pm

Hey Jeff,

Thank you for the info regarding DEN spotting.

Can you post a photo of DEN airport on this forum? This photo would help the spotters to find the legal place to take photos of the airplanes at DEN. I remember I had one a few years ago but I lost it from my old computer. So, I think it would be helpful for everyone.

Thanks!!
John Perrotta/BDL
John A. Perrotta (KBDL/BDL) - Canon 300D/400D & EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:18 am

Hi John,

Check this link : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/88202

spots 2,3, and 5 are pretty much off limits now as they are posted, and on the right side (that got cut off,) is rental car row, and on the top right is the approach area to rw 35L/R. If you view Alex's photo large, you get a good idea of the area.
 
An-225
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:24 am

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/88202

And, of course, a shameless plug of my photo (since it got cut off in the forum).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Kroychik



By the way, I have some other overviews that I never got accepted  Sad. Will need to work on them some more.



Alex.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:33 pm

Another plug for that shot Alex...

Some places that may be worth looking into...

The blue area is accessible by a dirt road, just before 16R. It goes quite a ways south.

The green area appears to have some type of dirt road access as well.

The red area has some dirt road access to a point as well.

The good thing is, I don't think there are any signs out there! With the exception of one area in the blue section... These obviously will only be worthwhile in the late afternoon, but they may be worth a shot.

Jeff
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:52 am

Not sure why the image didn't show...



This is what I was referring to...
 
hisham
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:15 am

I drove all the way parallel to 16R. I could barely tell the road from the prairie! Most of the roads are covered with grass. But I didn't see any "no tresspassing" signs. The bad news is there's a hill between the fence and the runway. All I could see is the tails of aircraft landing...

Hisham.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:53 am

Is there an exit to that road just south of the Tollbooths? Since I will be in the area tomorrow (making good use of site #4 for sure), I would also like to cruise out over to that area.

Any info appreciated.

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
JeffM
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RE: Progress Being Made At DEN

Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:55 am

Hisham,
I was afraid of that hill being in the way, so I drove out and checked my self today. Oh well, at least now we know.

Eric,
That road south of the toll booths on 470 is 88th ave. You will have to take Tower road north to 88th and then head east over 470 to get there, or go to 96th ave, and turn onto the dirt road where 96th turns north heading toward 16l/r.

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