F9Widebody
Topic Author
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 7:27 am

How much digital editing do you think should be allowed for submission to A.net? Obviously you can sharpen, etc, but what about cloning out window spots and things of that nature? What are your thoughts?

Regards
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
rotor1
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:57 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 8:54 am

My opinion: aside from cropping, as long as you are improving the QUALITY of the shot by altering MINOR details, you're fine. But if you start to change the shot into something it wasn't to begin with, you're going too far.

Cloning out window spots is OK in my book. Cloning out windows to make a cargo plane out of a passenger plane... a bit much.

-Mike
The best aviation photo I've ever taken was rejected by Airliners.net
 
INNflight
Posts: 3526
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 1:17 pm

If you start with a British Airways B747 and end up with a Virgin B747 you know you did too much  Laugh out loud

I think aside of cropping, sharping etc... it is ok to clone out little spots, as I have some dirt on my lens.

regards, Florian
Jet Visuals
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 1:25 pm

See this text:
----
BADMANIPULATION
The picture appears to have been manipulated in post-processing beyond
what is acceptable for submission to airlines.net, or the manipulation
that has been done is noticable or of low quality. Examples of these
problems include noticable cloning such as removal of objects from the
image, addition of objects to photographs, deliberate blurring of objects
or faces, excessive sharpening or blurring of the overaell image
(e.g. smart-blur, gausian blur, etc), or introduction of colour casts.

Manipulation of images should be limited to rotating to correct
horizontals and verticals, cropping, colour and level corrections,
and some careful sharpening. Cloning should only be used to remove
minor imperfections such as dust marks and scratches.
----

Peter
-
 
atomother
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 8:47 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 1:48 pm

How about this?

I cloned out a lot of stuff in this shot as you can see with a comparison of the same shot from the same location. I removed all the electrical boxes/signs and junk in front of the plane. Is this still "legal" in the eyes of a.net?

my shot:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Samples



other shot:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vitaly Kroychik



I will add that I think I did a pretty good job of photoshopping this one!
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 2:12 pm

Tim, thanks for the plug, however... your work didn't justify - I have more views!!! hehe, all that time and effort...

BTW - that might have not been the best thing to say in front of the screeners.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 2:25 pm

If you read the badmanipulation text posted above the answer is:

No its not legal in the eyes of the site.
Peter

[Edited 2004-05-14 07:33:14]
-
 
atomother
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 8:47 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 2:27 pm

Vitaly,

Open both photos at the same time and tell me which one is more appealing... And you can even throw out image quality to make it fair. I just felt that all the sticks and signs and boxes were distracting to the photo since they were all crooked it seemed.

Is removing this stuff going to far in the minds of the screeners? Or better yet in photography in general, is this crossing the bounds of an honest photo?
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 2:45 pm

I like the nice clean image myself. I surely have no idea why Vitaly would take the time to clone in all that garbage.. LOL

The way I look at the issue is if I could do it in a real dark room to a negative, I have no problem doing it in Photoshop. It's my image from start to finish, if someone else has a different "vision", great, I present mine as I feel it should be.

[Edited 2004-05-14 07:49:18]
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 10:02 pm

Atomother said: I cloned out a lot of stuff in this shot as you can see with a comparison of the same shot from the same location. I removed all the electrical boxes/signs and junk in front of the plane.

You are very lucky that your photo hasn't been removed from the database (yet!). Cloning to that degree is totally outside what is acceptable on this site. The last photographer who was found to have cloned on that scale came extremely close to having all of their pictures removed from the site and being banned.

Atomother said: Is this still "legal" in the eyes of a.net?

What part of the rejection reason text "...manipulation of images should be limited to rotating to correct horizontals and verticals, cropping, colour and level corrections, and some careful sharpening. Cloning should only be used to remove minor imperfections such as dust marks and scratches. is not clear? Please explain how the cloning you've done conforms to the rules.

Let this be a warning... The sanctions described above have come extremely close to being applied on more than one occaision - sooner or later the sanctions might just be carried through.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 10:22 pm

Hi all

Yes, I was very close to removing the image this morning.

Regards

Gary Watt

 
manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 11:09 pm

LOL! Tim, I know you wrote what you did to illustrate your point, and I hope it doesn't backfire on you in a horrible way mate but I have to admit to a sharp intake of breath when I read your post this morning!

Vitaly's comment is bang on....

Cheers!

Rez
 Big thumbs up

Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Fri May 14, 2004 11:34 pm

Okay.

I'll try to come clean with a picture that was anyway rejected.

While shooting a nice aircraft at LHR, the houses of Myrtle avenue came in the shot.
I attempted to clone the roof out, so to get only the aircraft and (grey) sky as I should have shot it, but I somehow messed up my editing process.

It looked nice on the large pic, but aws actually quite obvious on the thumbnail.

I guess that kind of cloning is out of the question ?
The screener gave me a badpersonnal message telling me that the cloning was quite visible (it is indeed in the thumbnail), but not that it was forbidden.

Your views on the matter (I have not done that again since for the moment !)

707
 
INNflight
Posts: 3526
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Sat May 15, 2004 12:15 am

Vitaly:

Why didn't you clone away the white small vehicle then? It disturbes me a lot?  Wink/being sarcastic

Another livery would have been very nice though  Insane

regards, Florian
Jet Visuals
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Sat May 15, 2004 1:11 am

707 said: While shooting a nice aircraft at LHR, the houses of Myrtle avenue came in the shot. I attempted to clone the roof out, so to get only the aircraft and (grey) sky as I should have shot it, but I somehow messed up my editing process... I guess that kind of cloning is out of the question?

707, you have to "guess"???

Check the BADMANIPULATION explanation again. If you think a house roof is equivalent to dust spots, sure go ahead and try cloning like that again - at best your photo will be rejected, at worst you'll be banned from the site. Your choice.

707 said: The screener gave me a badpersonnal message telling me that the cloning was quite visible (it is indeed in the thumbnail), but not that it was forbidden.

So now we have to repeat all that is already written in the rejection text in our personal messages too???

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
F9Widebody
Topic Author
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Sat May 15, 2004 6:55 am

Thanks for the responses...I think I get the idea. Big grin

Regards
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
atomother
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 8:47 am

RE: How Much Editing Is Allowed?

Sat May 15, 2004 1:26 pm

Wow, that blew up on me. My personal feelings are that removing menial objects such as crooked poles and a sign does not sacrifice the integrity of the photo as long as you are not changing the essence of the photo. Since other opinions differ from mine I respect that philosophy also. I don't run the website, I just try and make some good contributions from time to time and if the screeners feel that this photo crosses the line (hopefully not) then I respect their decision on the fate of the photo.

I did remove a few poles and that box only because I thought it took away from the centerpiece and after all I really hate those stupid fences and poles in my photos.

I feel a bit more in the know about the technical rules a.net has and hopefully others who have done the same thing are more educated on this subject also.

Hope I didn't stir the pot too much... If so, I do apologize!

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