United4everDEN
Topic Author
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 12:15 am

http://www.laasdata.com/taess.html

Now, why doesn't DEN and other airports do something like this? All you lucky UK spotters...
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 12:27 am

"...this first basic step to be completed an ID badge will be made available to all legitimate Enthusiasts."

LOL...how is that determined? Club membership? I'm sure no terrorists are reading this and saying... (in their native tongue..) "YES!!!!!!! first "club" meeting tomorrow, don't be late..."
 
LHRSIMON
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:59 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 12:33 am

Yes good though it may be how do i join !!!!!!! I am not a member of any clubs and do not wish to pay £28.00 to Join LAAS just so i can pay another £15.00 for the card.

As i live near LHR i do not need to join a club as i can get all their books etc etc from the many aviation shops around LHR (who sell LAAS books)

The only proof i have that i have been a spotter for 20 odd years is the fact i have been registered with A.Net since 2002. Also the fact i am now starting to have my own photo's on A.Net. Apart from that i cannot show anything !!!!

The stupid part about it is the fact i am a security manager for an airfreight company at LHR. Which means the DOT have records of my training etc etc. But as i cannot prove i have been a member of an aviation club before i cannot prove my hobby over the last 20 years !!!!!!

If anyone from LAAS visits this site i would be greatfull if they could help as i would be willing to pay the £15.00 for the card.

LHRSIMON
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
Tin67
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:49 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 1:05 am

I contacted the Met about this when I first head about it and got a reply from David Henson, Chief Inspector.

and I quote;

"The ID card signifies that the cardholder is a member of a legitimate enthusiast club (including members of Internet Forums) and the holder agrees to a code of conduct."

I thought the section in brackets was particularly interesting as I am in the same position as LHRSIMON and seeing as we are part of the Anet forum does this qualify  Confused

How you get to apply using this I don't know as you obviously don't get a membership card  Confused

I've not tried yet.

Regards
Martin
 
oly720man
Posts: 5740
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 1:09 am

This has caused some debate in the UK.

How do you prove who and what you are? If you can prove your identity why another card to prove your hobby? Will you be shown 100 pictures and be asked to identify the aircraft, airline and airport and you need to get 75% right to pass and get your card? Will you need 3 references? Who referees the referees? What about casual visitors/photographers, not the die-hard ones. Who will confirm their credentials? What if you're not a member of a society? I'm not a member of any society and only visit my local airport occasionally. Is that the end of my hobby?

Will the ID card actually mean anything if you've done nothing wrong (yet) and can easily get one anyway? Will you be banned from a 5 mile radius of an airport if you haven't got an ID card?

You don't need an ID card to be vigilant and if anyone wants to get one for illegal purposes, they'll do what's needed to get one. All the ID will show is that you've got an ID card and your details will be on a computer somewhere. Were the 9/11 hijackers on a variety of computers and didn't one get a visa 6 months after 9/11?

Will it work in America? Will every airport security department, or police, want to take on the responsibility or just spending the time of vetting photographers/spotters, interviewing them, handing out ID cards, etc, etc. Will the cards be usable at different airports? Would an IAD card work at ORD or LAX or JFK or LHR/CDG/AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, etc, etc?

Excuse the rant, but there are too many weak points that make such a scheme meaningless despite everyones' best intentions.

Andy
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Tin67
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 3:49 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 1:19 am

Andy,

It's all on the website, there's an application form and as part of this you are required to produce a copy of your passport or driving licence.

Here's another section of the mail I received from CI Henson.

"The card does not confer any right of access, but is working towards three concepts:

1. Enthusiasts use their experience and knowledge of aviation to report suspicious activity.

2. Enthusiasts take a responsible attitude and help to discourage poor behaviour by the small minority who cause damage, block emergency gates etc.

3. Persuading airport authorities and police officers that spotters have a positive role to play in the fight against crime and terrorism. (Crime often leads to intelligence that relates to terrorism)"

It's not unusual to get moved on LHR and being able to produce this card and effectively work with the authorities can only be a positive move. I think so anyway.

You do not need an enthusiast’s card issued under this scheme to visit Heathrow. It is part of the Metropolitan Police efforts to combat crime and terrorism to ask everyone in the community to contact us if they see or hear anything suspicious. This can be on our anti-terrorist hotline 0800 789321, to a police officer or any police station.

If you would like a card, further details can be obtained from LAARS International web site. http://www.laasdata.com/taess.html


Regards
Martin
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Thu May 27, 2004 1:33 am

I have already been told by our Director of Security that no such cards will be considered, at least in the near future, as they provide nothing (less actually) than a normal driver's license already provides.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Fri May 28, 2004 5:36 am

The scheme is a farce and I really don't think that the cards are worth the paper and plastic they're produced on. So, I apply and I fail the checks - what then? I still go to the airport and I don't have a card - so what, neither do hundreds of other enthusiasts. So are they going to ban people from airport perimeters if they don't have a card - I don't think so, and in any case that would go against the "these cards don't confer any rights of access" in the pre-amble.

Anyone can keep an eye out for unusual activity. I was at LHR last weekend and to be quite honest the few guys who were wearing "spotter" cards looked like right jerks.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Fri May 28, 2004 6:10 am

Agreed - looking at the 3 terms listed above, card holders promise to behave themselves and to prove how good they'll be they get to pay for it  Smile

If there were one single benefit from having this card, I could see the point. How about BAA opening up the LHR viewing gallery for card holders? As it is it, how ever they dress it up, its effectively a money making scam.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Fri May 28, 2004 8:23 am

The card is essentially toothless - there are no background checks on the owner of the card.Secondly,most people from Europe won't even have heard of the scheme and many hundreds or even thousands come to LHR each summer.Thirdly,the most popular spot(arguably) is on public land.

Consequently it is a bit of a scam albeit not quite of Nigerian proportions.
Alex
 
WorldspotterPL
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 2:40 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Sat May 29, 2004 7:31 pm

Have to agree with Colin. The card is a good idea but as we help them through it, we should have some benefit from it as well. We don't get anything and we have to pay on top. Ridicules!

Paul
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3256
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Sun May 30, 2004 1:26 am

Does that mean that for my 4-day visit to London coming July I have to get myself a card? That's ridiculous!
Attamottamotta!
 
LHRSIMON
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:59 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Sun May 30, 2004 5:33 am

You can get moved on with a card. You can also get moved on without a card...

Seems a pretty simple choice to me !!!! Save your money.
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: ATTN: LHR And AAS Spotters

Sun May 30, 2004 6:50 am

Does that mean that for my 4-day visit to London coming July I have to get myself a card? That's

Nope.You shouldn't have any problems without one.

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