FJWH
Topic Author
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 4:50 pm

How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:54 am

Hi all,

The "Top of Yesterday" picture:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Thierry Deutsch


How do you think this picture is taken?
I think that the Cessna is on hold and the 747 is on final and almost about to touch down. But I'm not sure.

Thanks for replies.


Greetings from France, Le Barcares, Cap Coudalere!
FJWH

[Edited 2004-07-15 01:55:53]
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
SV747-468
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:01 am

I agree with ya, I think thats the way the picture was taken!
 
henpol747
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:16 am


I believe too, that´s the way it was taken. Very impressive pic btw!!

Henpol747

Greetings from France, Haute Savoie, Annecy!
Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:44 am

My vote is that they used a camera. However, I'm no expert.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
A330Fan1
Posts: 835
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:35 pm

Isn't that...a kinda low, and dangerous approach for the 747? I'm sure the Cessna pilots had some preoccupations regarding the proximity of the 747 to them!

-A330Fan1
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:48 pm

I don't see why this is questionable? The C172 is holding, the 747 is landing on the active. Cut and dry. Although the 747 does seem a bit low, it may just be an illusion... or maybe he was just low.. that happens too.
This Website Censors Me
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:04 pm

Way to be an #@# InnocuousFox.

One would think that with the amount of power a 747 puts out that a simple 172 would be nothing at all to stop it. A bit of wake turbulence on the taxi way??

Great pic too!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
mikester540
Posts: 155
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:20 pm

That 172 must've been shaken about after that thing got past it...
Awesome pic!



Mike
We need men who can dream of things that never were. -John F. Kennedy
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:33 pm

Photoshop anyone?

Where the 747's shadow? Look at the shadow from the pitot tubes....now look at the ground...where is it? You should be able to see the tail shadow at least.

It actually appears like the 747 is closer but that is not possible.

My guess is this is standard film and carefully double exposed. The first shot of the holding cessna....and the cameraman purposefully "followed an imaginary heavy" to give the primary exposure that motion blur look. Then the second exposure could be taken of the landing 747 with a seriously high shutter speed (notice how sharp the 747 is).
 
rampkontroler
Posts: 694
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:40 pm

Hmmm...the CESSNA has a shadow...interesting!

Chuck
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:02 pm

The ground is not flat, means, that the runway is actually behind a "hill". Thus no asphalt and no shadows visible.
The Cessna holds in enough distance, but they must gotten some minor shaking.
If you watch the trees carefully you see, they are upright, but the ground, including the taxiway is not flat. Maybe you try to find a map of ELLX and you should see elevations and uneven ground there.
Also, this thread belongs to Photography, not General Aviation.
Dave, good one. Really think it was a camera? I vote for a stone with slaves carving the shades into it and coloring that later... Poor scanner the stone was put onto...lol


Edited to change abbreviation into full word to avoid nice pop up info...



[Edited 2004-07-15 07:04:16]
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:09 pm

Md80fanatic, you are openly accusing a photographer of faking an image, and that is very bad form. Btw, the shadows line up as they should, so you are also wrong. Look at the shadows on the engines of the 744 from the wings. Now compare that angle with the shadow on the horizontal stabilizer of the cessna cast by the cessna's tail fin.

The pic is legit.

And InnocuousFox, yes it was most likely a camera used to capture the image Big grin
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
flykal
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:31 pm

How about the 744 is landing in front of the Cessna. The Cessna has already passed the active and you simply cannot see the active runway because the 744 is closer than the Cessna.
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
Tobetruie
Posts: 15
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:40 pm

I totally agree with Flykal !

The 747 is at the front, facing the runway you can't see, with its shadow on it. The Cessna got passed and is at the background. NOT the invert.

It's "easy" to see when you know how work a digital autofocus camera. The aim and the focus is making on one of the element of the picture, here the 747 which appears to be sharpen. The background is therefore a little bit blury.

No Photoshop here... This pic rules !  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Te amo Ana, hasta siempre
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:56 pm

InnocuousFox is just trying to compensate for his apparently very small wee-wee, so no worries there guys.

My guess is that the Cessna is preparing for an intersection takeoff somewhere near the thousand-footers. As you can see, the taxiway continues past the point where the 747 is landing, which hints that the runway edge is in fact NOT in the picture. I looked at it googly-eyed myself.

There's a good possibility that, in the interest of safety, ATC directed him to this point for wake turbulence avoidance. If the Cessna rotated before the point that the 747 touched down, there's a very high chance that the Cessna could hit some bad wake turbulence, with messy results.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:10 pm

I say that it is real.

My best explanation is that the Cessna is actually farther away than it seems. In the picture, it looks like the 747's nose is going to pass right over it, but in reality, only the outer wing will pass over it.

On another note, why would a photographer with about four-hundred pictures in the database risk everything with one fake shot?  Nuts

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
CPH-R
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:11 pm

Jesus, you guys are making it much more complicated than it is - the Cessna is most likely holding at an intersection before to the end of the runway, since it's in no need of an entire runway. That would place the 744F at the correct spot as well as the CEssna.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:38 pm

I did nothing of the sort. I would never accuse someone I do not know of anything non-legitimate. Besides I didn't know that only single exposure shots without any editing are allowed on here? I am no photog so my comment was a educated guess at best.

Please don't put words into my mouth. Thank you.

WTH anyway???????  Insane
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:43 pm

Risk Everything? What is this a contest? Crap I thought this was just a place where people could share their aviation pictures.

 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:52 pm

The 747 HAS to be further away. Place (in your mind) the pilot figure in the 747 into the cessna.....he would barely be able to see over the instrument panel. If you (mentally) place the cessna pilot into the 747 his stature would fill the entire cockpit leaving no room for the FO. So then the 747 is necessarily further away.

The thread starter asked the question "How was this shot taken".....and if nothing but the press of the shutter button is allowed to make images for A.net....then the answer posted above of a "camera" being used is really the best and closet answer that can be garnered here.
 
FJWH
Topic Author
Posts: 922
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:09 am

Md80fanatic:

You know exactly what I mean by "How was this shot taken".

But flykal and Tobetruie, I think your right. It looks like the 747 is at the front and not the Cessna. Under the 747 is the runway which you don't see at the picture and the Cessna is just taxing at a taxiway I guess.

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:11 am

Okay, after looking at the pic again for a good long time. Here's what's up.

The 747 is about 300+ feet beyond the cessna. You can see the beginning of the runway threshold directly behind the cessna's cockpit....extending to the left edge of the photo. Since the 747 is so much further away than what it looks....and the taxiway looks to be rising up towards the runway in the distance...the shadow must be over the "horizon" (the topline) of the field beyond the cessna.



 
caetravlr
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:17 am

I am no expert, but you can definitely tell that the Cessna is on a taxiway that is perpendicular to the landing path of the 747 based on the direction of the lines it is following. I agree that it must be holding, and waiting for the 747 to land on the active, or at least taxiing toward the active after having just turned onto its current taxiway. I am sure the runway is just over that hill. I would love to get any more comments from the person who actually took the picture. It is an amazing optical illusion. I used to try and get shots with the same type of optical illusion when spotting on the parallel taxiways at SFO. I just didn't have the lenses to get the shots I wanted from the distance I was at.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
FJWH
Topic Author
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:20 am

Yeah, other option indeed: Mail the photographer  Smile

I'll let you know

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:34 am

Come on guys, it's just the distance compression you get with a zoom lens. I'll bet the two aircraft are pretty far apart.

SKillfull composition. Not easy to do.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:55 am

FJWH, I cannot read your post...only the title. For some reason I can never read the first post to a thread. If you clarified yourself I am not able to read it. Sorry I wasn't trying to be a smartazz (like I usually am  Big grin )
 
Continental
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:56 am

FlyKal nailed it. The 747 is closer to the photographer than the Cessna. All you need to do is compare the sizes.
 
FJWH
Topic Author
Posts: 922
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:06 am

Md80fanatic:

I want to help you, but I don't know which post exactly your talking about. A respones from me or someone else or..??

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
FJWH
Topic Author
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 4:50 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:10 am

I've send a mail to the photographer and he mailed back:

"Hi Frederik,

I've just read the thread and I'm quite astonished of what people interpret in that shot.  Wink/being sarcastic
I'd have posted an answer but since this requires a membership I don't want to afford right now I'll tell you how I did the shot and if you want you can pass the message.
You might be disappointed by the easiness of the way this shot resulted; in fact I just took the B747 while landing and pressed the button when it passed the Cessna. The B747 is landing on the runway which is situated at the Cessnas nose. The late landing (normally the B747s touch down earlier on the runway) and the high grass disguising the runway combined with the right light make for this shot looking quite thrilling, especially for people not knowing the conditions at ELLX.

Best Regards,

Thierry"

So... who was wrong, who was right?  Smile
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:35 am

Your introductory post I cannot read.....some kinda issue related to me I suppose. I cannot read the first post of ANY topic...not just yours. Sorry. I thought that maybe only Premium members could see the first post. No big deal....I have to wait for a few people to reply before I can get a vague idea of what the first post says.
 
patroni
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 7:49 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:36 am

The shot is taken at the right moment and from a good location. Due to the zoom compression the Cessna and 744 look closer than they actually are.

Being a local from LUX (and no, I don't know the photographer...) I can assure you that this shot is absolutely authentic.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:38 am

The 747 is further away than the cessna is what he is trying to say. The runway is further away from and above the cessna. It's the pre-concieved notion of the relative size of these two birds that makes your eyes think otherwise. It's a photo "Escher" so to speak.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:39 am

Md80fanatic,
Rather than firing off a reply, think about Airliners.net. It is one of the most respectable web pages in the world, and definitely the for aviation online. The photographer in question had close to four-hundred pictures in the database, which is quite an accomplishment. When I said "risk everything", in no way did I intend that this is a competition, but rather he would not want to loose his respect - to which I have done to you.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:44 am

I just got this e-mail from some person (I think a few other people also got this), and I thought that I would share it with you.
--
Hi, I'm sorry that I didn't post this online to A.net discussion, but I'm not
a member, so I'm writing you this mail.
I just read discussion #140252 called "How Is This Picture Taken?".
And what I see in your message just seems unbelievable to me!
Cessna 172 IS NOT beyond B747F, all you need to do is compare the sizes...
..just how user Continental writes (despite he's wrong with his statement
that 747 is closer). C172 is in a safe distance in front of the runway!!!
It seems to me like you never saw how 747 is BIG...if it was in front of C172,
the fuselage diameter would be similar to 737.
As a proof that I am right, please open this file and see:
http://www.sweb.cz/c-e-n-d-a/a-net.jpg

Cheers, Jan.
Jan Pokorny honza_pokorny@msn.com
Fwd: Flykal, Tobetruie, Continental, FJWH
--
 Laugh out loud
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
FJWH
Topic Author
Posts: 922
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:18 am

the link between brackets...< link >

http://www.sweb.cz/c-e-n-d-a/a-net.jpg


FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
Thom@s
Posts: 11674
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RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:23 am

It is obvious that the Cessna is closer to the camera than the 747. I can't understand how anyone could question that.

I must agree with CPH-R and say that you guys have done a fantastic job in making this a much bigger thing than it is. Sorry to criticize, but it's "just a normal photo"...  Insane

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:55 am

My apologies, I didn't realise I became a member of such an important community. Honestly....Perhaps I made a mistake joining here, I am not too big of a fan of "formality"...especially in what I mistakenly thought was a liesurely forum.

The only thing I know of photo's is how to effectively debunk Mars and moon pics with shadow anomalies. This pic looked to me like one that fit the category I am intertested in, so I attempted to debunk it as well. It was late and a few beers shortened my attention span somewhat....so I gave my half-baked answer and went to bed. In the morning when I checked back here it was obvious that I had walked into an art museum the night before and called Da Vinci a second rate scribbler. Jeeesh back to my point....

I corrected myself later in the day today and in fact pegged that photo's actual situation in time to take the prize. SHAWWWWIIINNNGGGG  Big thumbs up and it's ......outta here!!!! So I suppose shadow laws work on Earth as well.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:00 am

Anyway I'm sorry if I ticked anyone off. Sometimes I can be like a sumo wrestler in a china shop...... ummm bad example.....uhhh well you get the idea.
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:05 am

You mean "like a 747 in a CRJ Overhead Bin... lol

Let's stay on topic and chose our phrases like that...

Hey, it's just the over-moron kidding again...lol
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
wannabe
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 1999 3:37 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:21 am

The 747 is flying over the grassy knoll. Smile Come on guys, give it a break!! C172 holding short to taxi across active runway as 747 lands. Shot with a 300+ MM lens.
 
flykal
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:20 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:00 pm

This topic has probably got all the mileage it deserves...but the temptation to post again has won over...

I was also a lucky recipient of that email mentioned above, but can't say that I'm convinced his idea is correct.

I still think that the 744 is in front of the cessna.

The photographer has indicated that the 744 landed very late down the runway. Below I've posted a copy of LUX airport from my Jepp charts. My guess is that the 744 is landing on RWY 06 and will touch down somewhere near "FOXTROT" intersection. This is based on the line markings you can see in the picture which kind of indicates two taxiways running off at different angles.

So perhaps the Cessna is heading down "INDIA" taxiway? Who really knows...



And for those who viewed the post above regarding the picture comparison between the 744 and Cessna, take a look at the following shot:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Kevin Minter



Now, do you think the people are in front of or behind the departing 777?


Nuts


EDIT: Inclusion of Jeppesen chart

[Edited 2004-07-16 06:02:21]

[Edited 2004-07-16 06:03:28]
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:32 pm

"Cessna 172 IS NOT beyond B747F, all you need to do is compare the sizes...
..just how user Continental writes (despite he's wrong with his statement
that 747 is closer). "

Yeah, I just meant to switch around the aircraft. Genuine typo, especially when it's late!
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:16 pm

Those people are WAY in front of that plane. Using simple perspective....and knowing the size of a human body vs. a 777 makes the determination easy.
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:47 am

Flykal,

Nice try, but no cigar.

Outside of your poor understanding of telefoto lenses, you are missing one glaringly large fact:

747's do not land on taxiways.

Maybe reading the photographer's e-mail might help?  Big grin
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
jderden777
Posts: 1677
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 9:56 am

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:02 am

as many have said on here it is clearly evident that the 172 is holding short of the runway while the 747 is landing behind...i'm sure the photographer is growing frustrated while people still try to refute his claim...i think that the photographer would know best, what about you?? in my mind the 747 has to be closer away, the size comparison just isn't right for the 744 to be closer

Flykal:
as for your theory, it might work, however the taxiway that would run left to right in the bottom (kinda out of frame) photo would therefore have to be the runway....if only we could see any of the signs it would definitely clear a lot of this up...oh and why would a 172 be taxiing down India when the GA ramp is over there to the west of the control tower (going by your jepp chart here)
the photo could have been taken from near taxiway Golf....did that ever cross your mind?

jonathan d.
"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
flykal
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:20 pm

RE: How Is This Picture Taken?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:21 am

Flykal,

Nice try, but no cigar.

Outside of your poor understanding of telefoto lenses, you are missing one glaringly large fact:


I agree with your initial statement - I have no experience in using telefoto lenses.


747's do not land on taxiways.


Never said they did.  Wink/being sarcastic
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time

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