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Bruce
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An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:59 pm

What really sucks is to put a photo in the queue, wait 10 days, and then get a rejection which can be fixed, then upload it again for another 10 days...one single photo could end up making 2 or 3 passes thru the queue and 3 weeks to a month of time...

So how about this idea. Creating a special queue for "corrected" photos which have already been screened once and need some fixing....so that these would not have to wait as a new photo. I'm not sure how it could be implemented but there should be some way just like when you do a database reupload, if its not exactly the same photo it won't go thru. so this would permit ONLY those photos which are identical to the rejected one except for a fix based on the rejection reason...and if you could set a limit say 3 times and then the rejected photo cannot be submitted (fixed) again.

What does everyone think? good idea or bad?

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Skymonster
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:05 pm

What really sucks is to put a photo in the queue, wait 10 days, and then get a rejection which can be fixed, then upload it again for another 10 days...

Get it right first time and you won't have to wait again.

Creating a special queue for "corrected" photos which have already been screened once and need some fixing....so that these would not have to wait as a new photo

Many many times photographers do not fix the problem, or they introduce a new problem. So they'd still need screening, which would take time away from the main queue. Why should second attempts resulting from failed first attempts effectively get priority over those who are submitting a picture for the first time?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
sulman
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:33 pm

The only hesitation I would have is that it would make it very, very easy to upload reworks. This is a good and bad thing: I'm sure there are many, many rejections, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to give people an easy route back into the queue.

It's human nature to take the path of least resistance, and I'd imagine such a facility would get thoroughly exploited by a minority making small fixes and firing the picture off for another pass.

What I find a little more worrying is people uploading stuff then asking if it's suitable quality. If you think about it, that really shouldn't be happening!

Cheers


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
707CMF
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:37 pm

I don't think that would be good for reworks.

However, for Badinfo, for instance, if the screener judges only the info is incorrect, then the picture should not be rejected - neither accepted of course, a good thing would be to put the picture aside, give the oportunity to the photog to correct the info, and then have the info re-screened by a database editor, since the problem is not on the photo itelf anymore.

However, that would need some work for henks and Johan - maybe a good thing would be to implement that at the same time the 'editable' upload queue is launched, as it is quite similar.

Cheers,

707
 
Rotate
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:38 pm

srry,

i agree with Andy. If you photo is rejected, then it is rejected - easy as that. Just try to get it right, when you 1st upload the picture .. , dont see a need,why a photog should benefit, if his pic was rejeted , and then get a faster screening again?

Robin
ABC
 
paulinbna
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:45 pm

The problem comes with when you upload something that using things like buildings in the back ground as you refrence for level and lining up the grid in photoshop for it being level and you the runway is no where near level and a screener does not realize this. So does this make the picture that you upload a bad picture NO it does not. My example is this in ATL the runways and taiiways are no where near level.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



Now if you where taking this picture from the side the aircraft would appear to be going down hill. This is the rejected picture I am talking about:

http://airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=N329DL_0010.jpg

Now feel free to download it and open it in Photoshop then apply the grids it is level according to every pole and building in the background but the aircraft is going uphill. I guess what I am saying is that I think pictures like this is what Bruce is talking about more.

And one added thing the statment above about get it right the first time id direct opposite of what the email says that you guys send us.

"Don't worry, everyone has their photos rejected from time
to time. Our standards are very high. It is and should be difficult to get photos accepted."
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:45 pm

I agree with andy and Robin. No special Q's for reedited shots.
And for 707's idea. Just some examples.
If the reg is for example clearly visible on the plane and its not filled out than it should go back to the uploader. Same for not using the now mandatory Autofill function. Not used --> Return to sender.
-
 
mauriceb
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:50 pm

well since the most photos are rejected the queu will get longer and longer with the re-submit ideas, and i think they are already long enough don't you think?  Wink/being sarcastic although 707's idea sounds pretty good i guess, because screeners don't have to check the whole photo but just the info...


greetings maurice
 
707CMF
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:20 pm

Peter, I almost entirely agree with you (wow !), there is no way lazy photographers should have easy screening that way - I mean how many times do I see the c/n not filled up when it is already on some previous pics of the database.

However, I am sure sometimes there was no lazyness from the photographer (like ticked the wrong box, and, while the info is not good, the photo is okay. Does it need three aditionnal screeners to get through ? I think you have better things to do. That's why, what I suggest is merely an additionnal tickbox for you screeners, that would let the normal screening process go through, and - at your discretion of usage (I mean, you are the screeners, not I) - you could tick this box that would mrely say "old for badinfo".
That way, the picture would not come back 10 days later, making the screeners go all over that same picture again.

That would not prevent the picture to be rejected for badquality, badangle, baddirty, badelbonianphotographer, but that would prevent a good picture ntoo be lost, or to come back later to re-clog the queue.

cheers,

707
 
timdegroot
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:34 pm

Paul, your shot is clearly unlevel, look at the poles, etc.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
Skymonster
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:45 pm

There could (I repeat COULD) be an argument for putting pictures rejected only with BADINFO into a special queue, which is handled by the corrections team rather than the screeners. Badinfo --> photo in special queue (and not yet on database) --> photographer advised --> when photographer submits a correction and the corrections team are happy, photo goes onto database.

However, I suspect that the number of pictures that would go down that route would be minimal compared to the total queue size, and that such a process would involve quite a bit of coding by Johan and/or Henks.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
sulman
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:09 pm

Any news on the idea of removing the dual upload feature (myav and anet)? I'm under the impression this option isn't popular with anyone.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
beechcraft
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:39 pm

Hi all,
Maybe I´m wrong, but my impression is that one reason for the Q being so long these days is that the number of uploading photographers has rapidly increased.

Currently there are 1824 different Photogs waiting for their uploads and as I see it, the new photographers site on the search page is showing a complete set of new one almost each single day.

Now i was thinking, maybe a new photgrapher should have to send a portfolio of let´s say around 3 or so of his pictures to a different Q, as his personal application.

If all, or a minimum percentage of those pictures are accepted, he will become an accepted member and is free to upload normally as everyone else.
If he fails to present that number of acceptable pictures he could be "banned"
for a month or so, before he would be allowed to try again.

Now, i don´t know if this feature would be misused by just uploading under different email adresses, but maybe this could be prevented by IP tracking or a personal Photographer account, as mentioned in other topics.

This concept would probably mean an increased workload during an initial phase, but maybe it will pay out as it is established...

But, then again, it´s just a thought.

What do you (especially crew) think?

best regards,

Denis

That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
707CMF
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:54 pm

However, I suspect that the number of pictures that would go down that route would be minimal compared to the total queue size, and that such a process would involve quite a bit of coding by Johan and/or Henks.

indeed. But Henks and Johan have told us a few weeks ago that they were working on an editable queue, so that photographers could modify pictures/data while they are still in the queue (which makes me think, this should be locked as soon as at least one screener has looked at the picture, but let's not digress). Adding a "badinfo" queue to that might not be a lot of aditionnal work, then.

Now i was thinking, maybe a new photgrapher should have to send a portfolio of let´s say around 3 or so of his pictures to a different Q, as his personal application. [...]

I think that is not a bad idea. From what I read here, there are indeed a lot of new photographers all the time, who usually dont submit A.net material pics. Maybe nt the screeners, but a group of experience photographers with time on their hand could take care of that 'screening', provided that they take the time to explain to a wanabee what is needed to improve their shots (we are used to the rejection reason after a while, esp. if we are reading the forums, but a newbie often won't know what is behind the "badquality", since it can havfe a lot of reasons).
I would say this is another idea to look into to un-clog the queue - and adding to that the fact that Johan and Henks are working on the new queue (editable and) secure, with photographer account, this could be coupled with that...

I think there are a few good ideas in this thread.

cheers,

707
 
INNflight
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:21 am

I think the main problems are the photographers, who do not have images in the database so far, but are trying hard.

We had some cases here in the forum during the last weeks, people plugging 10-20 shots which are currently in the Q and have not been screened yet. As we all know, almost not a single one of these images was acceptable.

I think this is a big problem that makes the Q very long.

Why not adding some big sign at the top of the upload page telling unexperienced people to upload only 1 or 2 shots, too see if they're A.net material, not 20 at the same time.  Insane

Florian
Jet Visuals
 
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JeffM
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:30 am

Maybe I missed it, but can someone tell me what the extreme urgency is? I would like to see a list of people that have had Zero rejections. Then hear what they have to say.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:35 am

that Delta 732 shot is clearly not level, it would also be rejected for bad quality I believe...
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:54 am

Why not adding some big sign at the top of the upload page telling unexperienced people to upload only 1 or 2 shots, too see if they're A.net material, not 20 at the same time

Cause people will ignore it anyway like they are now ignoring the upload-FAQ and the Help Textes on the upload page.
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Bruce
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:58 am

Andy wrote:

Get it right first time and you won't have to wait again.

In some cases that is not possible. Things like amount of sharpening, colors (if you use an un-profiled monitor), motiv, and horizon may look fine to a photographer but not to a Screener. That's to be expected. Almost everyone who has been around this site for a long time knows that there are good photos, and there are a.net photos, but not every good photo can be an a.net photo without sometimes making adjustments to the photo to fit the standards of this site. Even among you Screener guys, one of you may find a photo acceptable but another might not.

Under the old queue order system at least it was a bit easier as you could immediately fix a photo and put it back in and it would not go to the back of the line (usually).

I dunno. I suppose one fix might be to just reduce the total queue size to begin with!
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Zander
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:05 am

I have another idea about the queue, it won't help much for the volume though...but still a great improvement.

I was thiniking about to have the opportunity to delete your own photo/photos from the queue if you want to, sometimes you upload a photo which you directly afterwards notice that info is incorrect or you realized that it won't get through the screening.

I guess it's quite easy to add a little box to each photo in the queue where you can mark the ones that you want deleted from the queue, like the appeal page...or what do you think guys?

Alex
 
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:07 am

if you use an un-profiled monitor)

Thats exactly what i meant above. See http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/

Use a good graphics card (with at least 24bit color) and a monitor with resolution 1024x768 or higher and properly calibrated. You are advised to download this monitor calibration program.

And with a bit of experience the things like amount of sharpening, horizon (which is pretty strauight explained in the rejection message) and so on are not that dificult.

Under the old queue order system at least it was a bit easier as you could immediately fix a photo and put it back in and it would not go to the back of the line (usually).

Again why the hurry if its nothing new or from a major event????

I dunno. I suppose one fix might be to just reduce the total queue size to begin with!

We are working on it.



-
 
ake0404ar
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:12 am

Denis,

way to go. I kind of like your idea and why not give it a try.
Newbies and people with less than i.e. 100 photos have to proof themselves.

They can only upload 2 photos at a time and wait for them to be processed.
Once they graduated, the get to the next level until the reach the position .......upload king or 100% acceptance rate. Just kidding for the last part.

This could be a productive approach to weed out some of the rejections later on......

Vasco G.

 
707CMF
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:25 am

Newbies and people with less than i.e. 100 photos have to proof themselves. - They can only upload 2 photos at a time and wait for them to be processed.

wow. That's pretty harsh. At the current rate, that means more than one year (16 months, to be precise). Assuming they get a 100% rate.

Nah, I prefer the idea of a paralel queue to help newbies reach the standards as I explained it in reply 13.

cheers,

707
 
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Bruce
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:38 am

Peter, yes it is important to have a calibrated monitor. But not everyone can afford a calibration device! I can't.....so I HAVE to eyeball it....

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:40 am

Hint 1: You can download the calibration program from the upload page.
Hint 2: In Photoshop (if you are using it which i diont know) theres also the possibility to calibrate your monitor).
-
 
mario340
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:41 am

I totally agree with Denis. Hey, it's not a big deal. Why shouldn't they apply being part of the whole thing if they have no pictures in the database so far?
3 pictures in a special Q as an application is exactly what I think would help all of us.
Vasco, we already talked about it... and I would like it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Mario
Lufthansa, there's no better way to fly.
 
paulinbna
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:45 am

Peter did you use the grid like I said or just eye ball it I looked again using the gid and every thing lines up perfect including the roofs in the back ground.
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:48 am

Paul, I didnt write any remark regarding your delta shot.

[Edited 2004-08-13 18:56:04]
-
 
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clickhappy
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:01 am

Paul, the shot is clearly not level, I hear what you are saying about the runway slopping, but have a look the the vertical references, they are all crooked



 
kc7mmi
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:04 am

Perhaps someone could write a guide for new photographers including info on standards, post processing tecniques and what not to do (upload then plug photos in the queue). Obviously I don't want to bash new photographers, because less than a year ago I was a new photographer...and I can understand what the new photographers are going thru; they want their photos up on a.net! We just need to figure out a way to make them read some guidelines before uploading...perhaps by using cookies or something.
 
runway23
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:09 am

There's been a very good guide for ages done by Gary Watt, http://www.airliners.net/faq/examples.main Albeit it doesn't say how to process a picture but it lets one clearly see if their photo will make the cut.

The only problem is that it is barried in the FAQ page which most new users won't read in any case (either to long, bad English knowledge, etc...), perhaps a link on the upload page would help.

Rgds,
Tim
 
paulinbna
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:14 am

So Peter I got that wrong
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
beechcraft
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:28 am

Hi again,
In my opinion a guideline itself, may it be the best written and most informative probably won´t help.

IF people will read it at all (how many actually know that Garys Guideline does exist?) and even if a.net makes you read it, it will not work.

Look at all the information given on the addphotos page.
It is ignored every single day.
People read it and think: Yeah, right, i´ll try anyway...
...when they click on: "I have read and understood the above."

Of course not everyone will behave this way, but i think the vast majority will and already does it on a regular basis.

Denis

That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:38 am

Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
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Bruce
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:36 am

Peter, I was talking about a more sophisticated calibration program like Colorvision Spyder or similar ones. Is the a.net calibrate program that good?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
willo
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:55 am

Newbies and people with less than i.e. 100 photos have to proof themselves.

It would be interesting to see how some of the old hands who keep on calling for limits on newbies would fare if they were just starting out now. I'm sure the standard required now is a lot higher than when they first uploaded. Experience is a wonderful thing but we all have to start somewhere. OK, there is a lot of c**p in the queue at the moment but there also a lot of very good new photographers and it would be unfair to penalize them. Make it too hard to get a pictures on here and people will just not bother trying at all. Without fresh blood this site will become stale. Imagine what A.net would be like if all we had was thousands of uploads from the same established photographers?Lovely to look, but essentially dull. It the sheer number of photo's - the good and the "not so good" - from all standards of photographer that make this site the best there is. Let's leave it that way, be a bit more tolerant and be prepared to wait.

Back to the topic. I still think most of the problem with the queue is a.net/myav button. It should be one or the other.

Happy shooting.
 
beechcraft
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:30 am

All those good new photographers would pass in initial screening anyway, since quality is screened in either way.
I think the idea i presented would just filter the mentioned c**p out of the Q and also encourage photographers to do more selfscreening.

It wouldn´t make things harder as they are right now. If you are able to produce one good photo and are interested in this hobby you shouldn´t have a problem to send in three good to pass initial screening.

Also there could be exceptions to this rule regarding rare shots.

But maybe it would also be an idea to create a max. number of rejections ANY Photographer is allowed to have in his last, let´s say 30 upload attempts. If he gets over a specific rejection limit his max. number of photos in the Q at a given time will be limited to 10 or so pictures for some time.

Anyway i don´t know if this technically possible and practicable at all.

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
sulman
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:58 am

Denis,

Another site that features photos of jets uses a system like that. I don't know how effective it is. Might be something worth investigating.

Cheers

James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
beechcraft
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RE: An Idea For The Upload Queue?

Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:01 pm

What?
There is another site that features photos of jets?!? Big grin

Anyway, Sulman, are you refering to my last reply or the whole situation?

regards, Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!

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