MIA777
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Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:34 am

This morning I went to the El Dorado warehouse area, a popular spot where I have been going for years. After about a half hour of watching, a Miami Dade Aviation Department security officer (not sure if that is the official title) told me to leave. Because I have never been asked to leave that area without a valid reason, I asked him when these regulations went into place, and he replied "since 9/11." Now, I don't know if that "officer" is new, but I cannot count the number of times I have been there post 9/11 and the reason just didn't make any sense. I next asked for his name and the phone number for the Miami-Dade aviation security office and he said that information was classified. I found that really hard to believe. This guy wouldn't tell me anything except that the office was in the terminal (....it's huge...). He went on to say that I could not be along the perimeter of the fence taking pictures, or even just stand there. Now, in previous threads I had heard that perimeter meant 15-20 feet away from the fence (not sure of the exact number), but I was on a public street and decided to call the police and find out if that was MDAD security's jurisdiction. The police officer said he couldn't say because he wasn't there. Finally, several security cars arrived and I just left to avoid arrest. So basically I have three questions:
1) What is the "perimeter"? If I was parked in the El Dorado warehouse lot, by their definition of perimeter, I would be in a restricted area (and all the employees as well). I was always under the impression that streets were fine, as they are public (minues Perimeter road, which is within 20 feet of the fence).
2) Is the MDAD Security office and officer's names really "confidential information"? I found this really strange...
3) Why did this officer claim that these rules have been instated since 9/11 when that obviously was not true, or they simply were never enforced?

Thanks...
MIA777
 
PHLapproach
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:34 am

hmmm, Did you catch the number on the truck? The FAA mandates that minimum distance you can stand next to a gate is 6 feet. I simply wouldn't have listened to him, he has no authority. People have got to learn not to say "since when" this gives them a chance to say the only reason they have and that's "9/11". I was in that spot a lot and It was my favorite, Several Miami-Dade PD officers have seen me there and didn't say a thing. And since the guy didn't give you his name or info, that basically shot his credibility out the window. I never parked in that lot, I just parked right at the gaurd rail. Although I have seen some folks park in the warehouse lot, and had no problem. I mainly stayed back to catch the arrivals over the numbers. I only had to get up against the gate a few times and that was for a China Air Cargo 74 and Absa Cargo 763, and Cielos Cargo DC-10. They take this "6 feet from the gate" thing very seriously, since everytime I have been at FLL. Someone will always say something.
 
ua935
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:07 am

Evening All,

I am visiting Miami between the 10 and 17 of November this year.

I haven't been to Miami since 1997, in view of the above posts where can you photograph from?

Is the MIA hotel still ontop of the terminal and if so can you still go up on their running track/rooftop?

Any advice gratefully received.

Regards Simon
Live every second like you mean it
 
US333
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:11 am

That's pretty odd that the cops would bother you at that location. I've parked right in the middle of the road up against the guardrail at the end of the street several times and have never been hassled. That does seem weird that the cop wouldn't even give you his contact information. I would just ignore him and as long as you're away from the fence and the tracks you shouldn't have a problem.
 
US333
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:16 am

These links should answer your questions about the hotel.

http://www.miahotel.com/main.htm

http://www.miahotel.com/fhotel.htm
 
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eksath
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:16 am

Ryan,

That sucks. I was planing to go there today and I guess your incident makes me wonder if I should. There is a sign on the fence that says no parking/standing but the mere fact it is a public road might give them some ability to tell people to move on.Likewise the El dorado folk can kick people out of their parking lot,too. Last saturday i counted 5 cars and about 10 people out there in the afternoon...Perhaps it is becoming "too popular"and undue attention is being drawn to it. ;-(

World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
Lindy
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:21 am

If that would be me I would have say to him, that if he can't show you in writting that this area is within perimeter of the airport and its not a public place I'm not leaving. Also, if he wouldn't show me his credentials I would not move at all.
Even if he would call for backups from other MDAD "Sicret" Security officers I would have tell them if they don't stop bothering me I will file harrasment suit against this officer.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
mcdonobr
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:32 am

Ignore him, I've had the same idiots tell me I couldn't take photos at the "official" photo location located next to the Customs parking lot while actually standing next to the posted sign which clearly states "Photography allowed at this location only".
Public employees, ie: MIA airport personnel working for the Dade Co. Aviation Dept. are required to give their names. If it was a white pickup truck with the Dade Co. door sticker, he is a public employee.
There are no laws against photography of aircraft, the only restrictions are photography of security gates, security checkpoints, and the personnel actively working these checkpoints. Even this is debatable, as I, along with everyone else, have seen the media filming these areas on TV numerous times.
 
MIA777
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:10 am

Thanks guys. Likewise, I have been there countless times. I was not in the parking lot, but just pointing out that it is adjacent to where I was so if by their rules I was violating a restricted zone, so would anyone (i.e. El Dorado customers) parking in that lot! Trust me, I did stay there for 20 minutes after they first told me to leave. I called the police and asked them about it, but at that point, an MDAD truck pulled up next to me on the street and told me to leave. At that point I just said forget it, but I am very suspicious about that man saying that MDAD security personel's names are confidential (as well as the phone number). I am going to look into this and maybe file a complaint with the professional compliance department.
MIA777
 
MIA777
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:27 am

Alright, I called the MDAD security office and spoke to the secretary. She said the officer was supposed to give me his name and the number of the office. They are going to identify him and call me back later. Again, thanks for you help.
MIA777
 
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eksath
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:06 am

Good job, Ryan...Give them hell. Dont let them get away with it. I went there this afternoon and shot there for about 30 minutes...no hassle...Then i went the 12 threshold and was approached by two sets of civilians who inquired about aircraft photography...they seemed to be SURPRISED that it was not illegal ..So i showed them the large signs posted by Miami-Dade basically approving photography....idiots.....

Keep us posted...In the future write down the tag and ID number of these over zealous rentacops..we can turn the tables on them... Wink/being sarcastic

World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
miamix707
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:44 am

Ryan, sorry to hear someone was trying so hard to ruin your day. One of these hero wannabe with egos driving a white pickup with green/blue miami-dade titles (MDAD)? said he was going to call the cops and scared a British photographer that was with me last year on the holes. I don't know if he wanted to give me his name or not but I told him I needed that before I left and I got if off his badge "RANGEL" was the last name but i never reported it. While you're at it report him too do me a favor.

If you want better info about reporting new cops or airport people who bother photographers talk to Joe Fernandez, do you have his e-mail?
 
MIA777
Posts: 1110
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:18 am

Thanks Mario. Yes, I have Joe's e-mail address. I was thinking of e-mailing Don Boyd as he always seems to know what's up. I'm just "shocked" that the guy lied to me three times in a row. Anyways, I am awaiting a call from the head of the MDAD security.
MIA777
 
DB777
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:14 pm

Since I retired in 2000 they created a new Safety & Security Division and pulled people to staff it from Airside Ops, Terminal Ops and Landside Ops. They now man the access gates and conduct perimeter patrols instead of Airside Ops Access Control personnel. It's a complete reversal of what they did in 1984 when they abolished the Security Division and put all their employees into Airside, Terminal and Landside. What goes around comes around I guess. The employees are airport employees and not police officers.

A retired Miami-Dade police captain is the head of the division and his name is Mark Forare. I believe you can find his office telephone number in the local Miami phone book in the government section under Miami-Dade County and then under Aviation Department. I can't find my phone book right now. A photo of Forare is at http://www.pbase.com/airlinerphotos/image/20804375

The employee's failure to give his name is against department rules, along with failure to give out the phone number and location of the Security office upon request. If you want to visit the top-secret classified office, go to the Hotel MIA lobby on the second floor at Concourse E and the directory of offices is on the wall by the set of elevators closest to the Information Counter (not the Hotel elevators). I don't know what floor his office is on because I haven't been in the terminal in years except for retirement parties and those were held in the hotel bar upstairs.
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
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eksath
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:47 am

Ryan,

any updates?...just curious.

Suresh
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:27 pm

I feel for you lot.

You just do not seem to get a break from this nonsense.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
MIA777
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:33 am

Well, I received a call from the head of security (sounded like Doctor something though I could not understand him). They did get the guys name and he left a number for me to call back. I am going to place that call soon and I will let you guys know what happens.
MIA777
 
diezel
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:00 am

It is always intimidating when you get bothered by the police and you did not do anything wrong! Miami is one of my favorite airports and I love the diversity of the planes there. It would be a shame if taking pictures is getting harder and harder.

Ryan, keep on making great pictures and don't let the cops spoil your fun.

Roel.


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Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
 
IAH777
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RE: Incident Today At MIA

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:34 am

An IAH spotter (goes by Speedbird2025 here) had a similar story, but even more absurd. Some DOJ (US Department of Justice) clown parked her van across the driveway of the Lee Road spotters park because Nate was taking pictures. She was holding him there for HPD, who came out (most likely because he had to) and put him in a head-lock. Just kidding. The cop probably rolled his eyes at the DOJ clown. I can imagine her sitting there in her van, dreaming of bowing as the President adorns her with medals and ribbons for stopping the terrorist photographer. My suggestion was to keep snapping away and maybe get a few photos of her looking like a dumbarse. I only wish I had been there with him. That situation would have been over before it started.

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