TACAA320
Topic Author
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Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:20 am

I'm planning to change my film camera as well as the digital.

Should I buy Canon or Nikon?

Which model?

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
Posts: 7153
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:22 am

By the way, why not Minolta?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
diezel
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:31 am

Give us some more info. Are you looking for a DSLR? Do you want to buy new or second hand? How much do you want to spend?

Roel.
Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
 
INNflight
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:31 am

Ca - Non ?  Smile The way to go!

Get a new, classy looking 20D and a 100-400L IS USM... you'll be happy with it  Big grin

cheers,
Florian
Jet Visuals
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:24 am

Yes, I'm looking for a DSLR, brand new, and no more than $4k both.

Thanks,
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:27 am

Canon 20D with 100-400L IS and 17-40L.

or you could go with the cheaper alternative...
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
BA777
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:34 am

TACAA320,

I would definetely say go for the Canon, they have never let me down! I have a D30 with 75-300, 28-105 and 20mm prime...and I've seen shots from a friend's D100 when we both went spotting together. His shots had way too much blue in them, whereas mine were much better exposed, the colours better and my 3mpx pics looked better than his 6mpx ones!

Plugs of the Canon D30's capabilities:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Henry Lidster
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Henry Lidster




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Henry Lidster



Hope this helps, any questions....feel free to ask  Smile

Henry
 
sulman
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:05 am

Henry - his WB settings may have been a bit awry.

Try both out and go with what makes you happy. I use Canon myself, but there's plenty of great shots here from Nikon users, so do your homework on some of the site images, email some photographers, and make your mind up.

Jeff Miller uses both; he could probably give you a rundown of the relative strengths.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
diezel
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:11 am

Always a good idea is to visit http://www.dpreview.com for tests and reviews.

If you want to get an idea about prices go to: http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Roel.
Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
 
TACAA320
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:58 am

Thanks to all folks.















'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:13 am

Canon 20D, very new to the market and well worth the money!
 
PilotHighFlyer
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:19 am

Nikon D70 and new Nikon D200
Try out everything with in your price range and buy whats comfortable to you, nikon will prolly feel better tho  Big grin

Robert
 
mdwalkman
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:26 am

Have to agree with Robert. Definetely Nikon. Get a D70 and you won't be disappointed.  Big thumbs up
Please excuse my poor English.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:30 am

Will love this, but $8k  Sad


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'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:30 am

G'day
I use Canon but would recommend either as a great way of getting the best from your photography.
A few simple points worth considering.
Both Nikon and Canon make awesome camera's so look straight past any biased comments by anyone.
Canon glass is in general slightly better than Nikon on the L lenses however the quality control of Canon is terrible.Make sure you try before you buy any Canon glass.
If you get good L lens it is outstanding!!
In general Canon QC is poor so always check any glass no matter how expenseive apart from the big primes.
Nikon camera's do have a far better feel in yor hand than Canon.I really don't know why Canon ergonomics arn't as good.
Look at your budget,look at the lenes and make the big decision.
Both are great but at the moment Canon are making slightly better DSLR's.
Remember though that the body is only around for a few years and the glass lasts a lifetime.
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
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Kereru
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:54 pm

Either Nikon or Canon are okay. Check what best suits you and go with that.

Olympus has a good one too worth looking at as it is quite small and less to carry around. Konica Minolta and Pentax have some as well so you have a wider choice these days and the prices may be more expensive than the two front runners you mention.

I have a D70 and it works fine for me.

Cheers,
Colin
Good things take Time.
 
kc7mmi
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:43 pm

One thing's for sure...you can't go wrong with a Nikon. A friend of mine uses a film Rebel and played with my new Nikon N75 (film camera) and said he might just by a Nikon after all. On this camera in particular, the autofocus is very good. It's small, light, and inexpensive. Nikon kicks ass.
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:15 pm


Dehowie, L-lenses are not generally better. They're essentially equal.
I like nikons designs better, more userfriendly and quick to work, but thats highly subjective.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
vir380
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:27 pm

The debate goes on  Smile

to be absolutly honest ..... there is no difference between Canon an Nikon .. quality is the same .... features the same .... etc etc


the main thing you have to look at yourself is the overall cost involved for the body and lenses and any accessories you may want , have a look around at the sites Roel has posted for features and benefits ... then have look at something like either Ebay or any second hand camera dealers in your country and weigh up the costings of both second hand against new ..

your own personal choice entirely

regards Tony
Moved away from this lost website to better things !
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:04 pm

HI ChrisH
Not to get into the Canon vs Nikon thing but ALL of my professional photographer friends agree that Canon L glass is superior to Nikon.
Not by much but it is slightly better.
Two of those opinions come from guys who used Nikon for 20 years and have recently converted to Canon because they have no choice.
With the publishers providing the gear they had no choice but to convert and both agree the lenses are better.Not bymuch but better never the less.
However other things in the Canon system are not as good(QC,ergonomics,etc) while others like the flash system are far superior to Nikon.
As i said above both make great Camera's and lenses but as can be seen at any sporting event at the moment Canon hold the upper hand in professional use which at the end of the day is the ultimate judgement of gear.
Both are excellent systems with various advantages but L lenses are one advantage Canon have that Nikon doesn't.
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:47 pm

"while others like the flash system are far superior to Nikon."

It's well known that it it actually the other way around, Nikons flash system has always been better and still is. I feel no need to argue further, I cant tell any difference in quality between Canon and Nikons best glass, don't think you could either.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:27 am

Haaaaaaaaaaaaah......not again. Same ol'........
Canon vs. Nikon there we have it again.
----------------------------------------

Florian wrote:
"Ca - Non ? The way to go!
Get a new, classy looking 20D and a 100-400L IS USM... you'll be happy with it"

What makes you say so, Florian? Canon salesman?? Are you on comission?
Have you ever tried the combo, or do you simply rely on the word of mouth????
-------------------------------------------


Years back when I bought my first SLR I asked myself the same question.
Back then a.net was not even in the making, so I went to my local pro shop. It would have been either Nikon or Canon.
Functionality of the cameras was pretty much the same. The feel of Nikon was much better so I went with what felt right.

Years later I still rely on Nikon and I am pretty happy with it.

---------------------------------------------

Darren wrote:

"...but as can be seen at any sporting event at the moment Canon hold the upper hand in professional use which at the end of the day is the ultimate judgement of gear"

There are so many other types of photography, it is not only sports........


Anyone has access to market shares of Canon and Nikon (pro sector)???

Whatever brand you use one thing is of great importance after a long day at the airport

We had Fun, fun, fun.........

Vasco G.
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:58 am

I agree Vasco that with such great gear it really doesn't matter.
Obviously Chris you have never used the EOS 550 flash system the one thing all pro photographers rave about after switching from Canon to Nikon.
Small test for your Nikon flash gear.
Walk into a sealed room with all the lights off so that it is completely black.
Take a shot with your Nikon flash in complete darkness with the AF on.Unless it comes out perfectly metered and focused in total darkness then i have proved my point about Flash gear.
As i have said before the opinions stated here are NOT mine but from 2 professionals whom are die hard Nikon fans and users for 20 years.
They are the ones who have used both Nikon glass and Canon and the pro's opinion is the Canon is slightly better.
End of story.
At the end of the day we are talking about a difference which is slight at best and as i have already said both systems have respected advantages that make a selection difficult to make.
Just seems that at the moment Canon have the edge.10 years ago it was Nikon who had the lead.
I am looking forward to seing the 200D and hope it provides some good competition for for 20D from Canon so at least peole will still have a choice.
Darren


[Edited 2004-09-28 02:01:20]
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
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Kereru
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:00 am

Obviously Chris you have never used the EOS 550 flash system the one thing all pro photographers rave about after switching from Canon to Nikon.

Perhaps those pros switched before the arrival of the D70 and SB800 and they have no idea what the new combination can do? Doesn't really matter as both systems are good and work well.

D70 with SB28 in manual mode:


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Colin Hunter
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Photo © Colin Hunter



D70 with SB800 in full auto mode:


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Colin Hunter
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Colin Hunter



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Colin Hunter



The SB800 has i-TTL and can be operated wirelessly by itself or with upto 5 other flash guns using one as a master controller. I don't know what the EOS550 can do and I will leave that for others to find out as I am quite happy with the Nikon flash system as it fulfills all my needs very well. What ever the advantage of one system to the other it is only marginal and as long as your happy with the results and your having fun while using the equipment that is the main thing. Just spend twice as much as you expect and it should almost meet your expectations!

Happy shooting.

Colin
Good things take Time.
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:15 pm

Hi Colin
The SB800 sounds pretty similar to the 550EX which has been out now for i think something like 2 years but probably more.
From what i understand though you cant use the new iTTL with any older Nikon bodies like the D1X which is are the bodies of choice for the Nikon crew for pro photography until the D2 arrives shortly.
You can slave other 550's to the master unit to have multiple firings etc.
For what most of us use a flash for like you have illustrated the SB800 and 550EX are pretty much overkill but you do get outstanding results and the flexibility to use them so well away from aeroplanes.
Seeya
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:47 pm


Dehowie i-TTL is a better version of e-TTL and THAT was superior to Canon. I've never heard a pro prefer the Canon flashsystem. And I've met many pros working in a photolab. Read this (old) article for instance:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/flash.htm

Anyways, both systems are great, and at the end of the day I'd be happy with either, like most pros would be too. (unless they shoot mediumformat hehe).
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:11 am

Hi Chris
Just wondering if any of those pro's you have talked to have actually used BOTH Canon and Nikon or are they all striaght up Nikon lovers because the mates of mine have used both.
They clearly prefer the Canon system for more features and more reliable metering in difficult light.
You may want to read this which outlines most of the features of the EOS flash system some of which Nikon have only just implemented in there lastest flash the SB800 which only works fully with one body the D70.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index3.html#common

All the features have been available for like 2-3 years with the 550EX.
Now that Nikon does have a decent flash available that offers almost but not all of the feature of the Canon system they have almost levelled up the playing field which is good news for D70 owners anyway.
The only problem for Nikon is Canon is about to release a new flash with even more features.
The race continues!!
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
TACAA320
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:12 am

It may sound weird or stupid, but pls. don't kill me.

I know it all depends on many factors.

But how much do you think is the life term of a good camera? I mean, an expensive one, taking due care of it.

I'm not referring about the progress in this regard that is obviously exaggerated.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:29 pm


The strength of Nikon is the speed and metering. It is Canon that are playing catchup with Nikon in the flash system area, and they're not there yet. (the D70 has an impressive 1/500 X-sync btw, dont see that on even the 1dsmk2).

I've used the SB800 on my D70. It exposures so well its scary, and its superfast. "Obviously Chris you have never used the EOS 550 flash system " Obviously you never used the Nikon? I don't see any features lacking compared to Canon, quite the opposite.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
ckw
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:49 pm

I would agree the Nikon has an edge in terms of flash, due to the use of 3 dimensional metering which factors in both the distance and colour of the subject. Canon's ETTL2 factors in distance (but not with all lenses) and does seem to be getting better. The 550 is a terrific unit, but ultimately, any flash will be limited by the level of integration with the camera.

On the matter of sync speed, Nikon acheived 1/500th by controlling the exposure by simple expedient of opening the shutter and cutting power to the CCD at 1/500th  Smile Canon actually had the same on the 1D (which also used a CCD sensor). Interestingly, the new D2x which uses a CMOS sensor is back to 1/250th, just like the 1D2.

There are two views as to why this is so - one is that it is simply not possible to switch the CMOS sensor off in the same way as the CCD, the other is that creative photographers complained that CCD switching did not give them the option of using 2nd curtain sync. Whichever the case, none of the flagship cameras offer higher than 1/250th sync.

But note also that the Canon 550 allows flash at ANY shutter speed by using a pulsed flash (FP mode) at the price or reduced range. Don't know if Nion does this or not.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:41 pm

Hi Chris
I have to agree that Nikon definitely holds an edge in AF and a slight edge in metering accuracy with the D100 Vs the 10D.With the advent of the 20D that has been righted somewhat in that the AF and metering(primarily AF) have been brought up to where they should have been on release of the 10D.
As i have said from the beginning edge system has its own advantages in different area's and i am happy to agree that yes Nikon has some advantages over Canon in the prosumer camera range.
However the D70 is the first and only(as the D2X isn't out yet) camera which can use the SB800 and it still only manages to replicate the features of the EX550 which has been out for quite some time and is completely compatible with the whole EOS line.
My point about the use of the system was that my 2 good friends have 20 years of experience of using Nikon and all its great gear(F5,F100 etc etc) and within 8 months of switching both have said the Canon flash system and L lenses are better than the Nikon equivalent.
If you owned an F5,F100,D100,D1,D1H,D1X you would be able to use none of the advanced features on your great new SB800.Great for D70 owners but it leaves 95% of the Nikon population and ALL the professionals still with a system which is far behind the Canon flash sytem.
Despite what you may say they are the facts.
You are pretty obviously a Nikon lover and they make fantastic camera's and great equipment of that there is no doubt.Yes i do know as i have used an F100 quite a bit with good success and as a film camera it would clearly be my number one choice as a body.
However if the word of two guys with 20 plus years Nikon experience can't convince you that the Canon system is better after only using it for 8 months then i am wasting my time as clearly your love of Nikon outweighs your ability to see the facts and hear anything i have said or Colin i'd imagine.
Seeya
Canon and Nikon lover
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
Staffan
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:21 pm

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what you shoot, because the differences between the cameras are tiny compared to the difference between photographers.
It's a bit like motor racing, it's not always the guy with the fastest car that wins.

Staffan
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:20 am

"I have to agree that Nikon definitely holds an edge in AF and a slight edge in metering accuracy with the D100 Vs the 10D"

And the D70 has better metering than the D100.

"However the D70 is the first and only(as the D2X isn't out yet) camera which can use the SB800"

No, don't distort the truth so much. First of all, it works on all Nikons, but the i-TTL only works on D70 and D2h (which is out). The SB800 is brilliant on the D100 aswell, my friend Daniel shot these with said combo.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Daniel Asplund
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Daniel Asplund





"Great for D70 owners but it leaves 95% of the Nikon population and ALL the professionals still with a system which is far behind the Canon flash sytem."

Youre making this up as you go along I think. The SB-28 for instance and the speelite system has been around and been BRILLIANT for MANY YEARS. Don't make stuff up. The SB800 just improves an already great flashsystem.

"Despite what you may say they are the facts."

Just cause you say so? Very few facts in your post.

"However if the word of two guys with 20 plus years Nikon experience can't convince you that the Canon system is better after only using it for 8 months then i am wasting my time as clearly your love of Nikon outweighs your ability to see the facts and hear anything i have said or Colin i'd imagine."


Colin actually said "I would agree the Nikon has an edge in terms of flash" in case you missed that bit.
Anyway, the word of 2 guys? Out of how many million Nikon/Canon users? That don't prove a thing... I could claim I know 34992 superduperpros that say Canon sucks. Therefore it's a fact?

Think I'm the one wasting time here, Im not a nikon lover, I could just as well shoot Canon, I just don't like it when ppl lie and make stuff up. Typical of Canon fanboys ;o)



what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:51 am

Hi Chris
So i would gather by this "I just don't like it when ppl lie and make stuff up. Typical of Canon fanboys ;o)" that you are,
A)Accusing me of lying
B)A canon fanboy.
I think by reading my above posts any non Nikon lover would clearly be able to see that i am neither a Canon fanboy or liar as i think i have adequately praised Nikon of being superior in certain area's.
No doubt that is something a fanboy would never concede and many will happily praise the superiority if Canon in the pro camera range.
Given you have decided to turn this into a flame war i will happily withdraw with my integrity intact rather than stoop to your low level by switching the discussion from a talk about gear to a personal attack.
Seeya
Darren

2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
ChrisH
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:40 pm


Sorriy if you take it personally but "but it leaves 95% of the Nikon population and ALL the professionals still with a system which is far behind the Canon flash sytem" set me off. That's a right out lie if I ever heard one, maybe it wasn't intentional, spur of the moment kinda thing, but it's rubbish nonetheless.


Class act tho, I think we've settled this now.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:23 pm

"Haaaaaaaaaaaaah......not again. Same ol'........
Canon vs. Nikon there we have it again."

Sorry Vasco, I was asking a question and got a lot of pretty much interesting answers.

I agree with you that "we had fun, fun, fun...". But fun without a good camera is not that "funny".

Don't you agree?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
cancidas
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:36 am

get a real camera, buy a nikon. you could also go for a leica...
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:33 am

Thanks to all for your answer.

I think I will buy a digital Canon and a film Nikon.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
LHRsunriser
Posts: 395
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RE: Canon Or Nikon?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:52 am

Hi,

Canon 300D is extremely good prices for the quality.
Getting back into it

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