DeltaWings
Topic Author
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What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:23 am

I cant believe this. One by one my pictures have been rejected. So far not ONE of my pictures has been accepted!! I have been trying for six weeks now and have sent in about 80 pics, all beeing rejected. I have tried everything. 150 dpi, 200dpi, 250dpi, 300dpi. I have a Hewlett Packard R65 Scanner. My Camera: a Fuji Finepix, 6 MegaPixels. To me , the pictures look perfect.

 Pissed  Pissed  Pissed

Id like to speak with the screeners
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:29 am

Dude, chill and please reformulate your thread. This isnt getting you anywhere...
Wietse de Graaf
 
spacecadet
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:29 am

Post some examples, let's see what the problem is. Maybe some of the guys around here can help.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:29 am

Change your name to Sam and you'll get them all accepted  Smile (joking guys!!)

Hmmmm I think your problem might be that you should use Photoshop or similar to post-process digital shots rather than a HP scanner?  Confused Seriously, post a few rejected pics and I'm sure you'll get some of the pros here to guide you in the right direction.

Mike
 
sulman
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:30 am

Take it easy.

Everybody gets pictures rejected. Post some, along with the rejection reasons, and you'll find that people will be able to help you work through getting images accepted.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
aviopic
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:40 am

I have tried everything. 150 dpi, 200dpi, 250dpi, 300dpi

A clear indication you lack some knowledge Big grin
An average screen is 72 and the very best 96 dpi so there is absolutely no point in uploaded a higher resolution, it simply will make your image smaller or larger but has no affect on your image what so ever.
When you want to make prints it is a different story of course.

Why don't you show some of your marvelous work ?
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
DeltaWings
Topic Author
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:44 am



reason for rejection:BAD QUALITY, BLURY
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
spacecadet
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:02 am

A clear indication you lack some knowledge Big grin
An average screen is 72 and the very best 96 dpi so there is absolutely no point in uploaded a higher resolution,


The resolutions he gave were scanning resolutions. He probably has no control over the resolution (not size) of his photos on his digital camera; my camera shoots at a fixed 180dpi and I think that's true of most digital cameras. He's clearly talking about the resolutions he's tried scanning at, but it sounds like he's scanning from prints and that may be one of the problems.

DeltaWings: sorry to say it but that shot is blurry, and that's even at the reduced size you've posted it here. If we could see the size you actually submitted at (hopefully larger than this) it's probably going to look even blurrier.

That photo, at least, is also lacking in dynamic range, though I don't know if this would be enough to get it rejected if everything else was perfect.

No idea if the softness is just bad focus or camera shake; would need to see some more examples to determine that.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
LHSebi
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:12 am

DeltaWings,
Is that the size you uploaded it at? If it is, I am sorry, but you should have a look at the general guidelines!

Post some more of your rejections. If you are even mad that this one is rejected, shows that you really need to have a scan through the database, and look through the photos that are accepted. As is said many times, and camera with enough megapixels alone will NOT get your photos accepted! Post processing is required, along with good motives, etc. Instead of getting so mad, post some rejections (several), and what they were rejected for, and then ask the more experienced photographers here nicely what you are doing wrong? Acting like you are, you will just get people mad.

Don't you think it's better to learn from your mistakes, than to just be mad at them?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
DeltaWings
Topic Author
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:20 am

Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:21 am

I love the comment, very enthusiastic  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Simon
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
Jaspike
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:24 am

Lovely comment  Laugh out loud And to my untrained eye, it does look just a wee bit blurry.  Big grin

Tom
 
aviopic
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:27 am

The resolutions he gave were scanning resolutions. He probably has no control over the resolution (not size) of his photos on his digital camera; my camera shoots at a fixed 180dpi and I think that's true of most digital cameras. He's clearly talking about the resolutions he's tried scanning at, but it sounds like he's scanning from prints and that may be one of the problems.

Of course he did, isn't that why we make a crop of our images...... ?
So we do have control over the resolution of the uploaded image apart from any camera or scanner resolution.
I was (and still am) just pointing out that someone is blaming the screeners without putting any kind of effort in post processing his work.

About the image....... don't know where to start, sorry


The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
PNEPilot
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:28 am

I'm sorry, but if that looks perfect to you it's time to make an appointment with your optometrist.
 
spacecadet
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:42 am

So we do have control over the resolution of the uploaded image apart from any camera or scanner resolution.

Point is you were telling him he was wrong for using more than 72dpi, but he has to scan at more than 72dpi - if you've ever scanned anything, you'd know that. Try scanning a negative at 72dpi and you tell me what the native size is as a result. Or, if you scan at 72dpi with a target width of 1024, you tell me what kind of quality results. You have to, have to, have to scan at the highest possible scanner resolution, and that's what he was talking about.

Now, regarding this photo, at the size he uploaded at it's just got all sorts of problems.

DeltaWings: I've looked at your profile, I see that you're still young and it sounds like this is your first attempt. I hope others are not too harsh on you and keep that in mind; we all had to start somewhere and it takes time to get things right. That said, maybe you could ask for help a bit more nicely next time.

Ok, first of all, something got lost in the translation when you either scanned in or transferred this image from your camera (I don't know if this was film or digital). It's clearly been resized up at some point in the process. I don't know if you were using digital zoom on your camera (never do that; only use optical zoom), or if somehow your target scanning size got messed up (like scanning at a larger size than your chosen scanning resolution can support), or if you manually resized it up for some reason, but this is not the native resolution of this photo.

So tell us first, is this one of your digital photos or your scanned photos? If it's scanned, what settings did you use on this particular photo?

Second, the size is too big. Check the submission guidelines for submission size.

Third, there is a lot of noise. It looks like a combination of both jpeg compression noise and either digital sensor noise or film grain. If this is a digital photo, this is dependent on both the settings in the camera (make sure you use the highest quality settings) and your file save settings. If it's film, then it depends on your film type and file saving.

Don't really know what else to tell you right now; only other suggestion I could make is to look at some of the other recent photos in the database and try to match the quality of those. Older photos may not be as technically proficient; the standards for technical prociciency have gotten higher here over the years, so make sure you look at recent submissions for comparison.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
DeltaWings
Topic Author
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:45 am

Hmm. Im not even that angry ( I think those smilies just make everything look alot worse.)

Okay, I apologize if this seems to hard. The picture of the Troyan I uploaded with 200 dpi. I used the scanner and scanned it in at 100%. (I didnt have the memory chip anymore, so I scan the pics in). I dont know, why it turned blury.

I thank everyone for their help so far. Thanks again.

 Smile

[Edited 2004-10-12 22:50:54]
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:52 am

Why won't this pic get accepted?


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Eric Daniel Smith



Ahh the infamous USAirways shot Big grin
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
photopilot
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:24 am

Lets go back and look at the Red Bull photo for a moment.

1) It's not sharp. Regardless of size, it still looks blurry.

2) Poor composition and attention to detail. Look at the nose gear. Oooops, can't see it for the stand and stanchon in the way. A full frame evaluation of the image BEFORE you press the shutter button and you would have seen this. So either adjust your position slightly, or even GENTLY lay the stands down (towards you) so the rope/stands don't show, take your photo, THEN STAND THEM BACK UP AGAIN. If possible ask permission first to do this. Asking politely and you might be surprised at the co-operation you get. If not, heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

3) There's no punch in the light quality. Very flat and no dynamic range. Adjust your scanner and keep trying.

Let us see your results.

Steve
 
kc7mmi
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RE: What Is Going On?!

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:31 am

I'm confused, you say you took the pic with a digital camera, but then you say you scanned it in. Which is it? If you made a print from the digital camera then tried scanning it in on a flatbed I'm sorry, but an ice cube has a better chance in hell than that image getting accepted. If not, ignore that last statement. Please explain everything you do in order including the settings on the camera all the way until you upload it. For example, this is what I do:
  • Take the picture with my trusty Nikon film camera
  • When the roll is done I develop it, normally
  • If it's print film I have the lab scan it at 400dpi giving me an image size of 2000x3000 pix
  • If it's slide film, I try to figure out who's gonna scan it (not relevent)
  • Bring the CD home and open it up in Jasc Paint Shop Pro
  • Fix any problems with the hi-res file including spots, color, and level and crop if necessary
  • Resize
  • Sharpen
  • Run thru NeatImage

    Anyway, that's what I do, but since I'm doing film, it's a little different than what you do.

    One more thing, when I started, a little over a year ago, I tried using a Fuji Finepix 2600Zoom 2MP camera. I never got a single image uploaded with that camera...the same might be the case with your camera. Sorry.

    [Edited 2004-10-13 02:33:25]
  •  
    DeltaWings
    Topic Author
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:45 pm

    Aviopic: I didnt say i was blaming the screeners, I just simply said Id like to speak to them, to find out what Im doing wrong, since I cant figure it out.

    Ok. again to what I did.

    I borrowed a Fuji Finepix from a friend for a week. He said he would develop the pictures for me, and thats what he did. When the fotos came, they looked really sharp ( not blury like above). Unfortunately my friend deleted the memory chip my pictures were on, so I decided to scan them in. The picture was 10 times 15 cm big. I scanned them in ( the Red Bull at 200 dpi), using dpi between 150 and 300. Of course I scanned the pictures in at 100%. When the scanning was compleeted It asked me, in what quality I would like to save it in jpeg. I saved all of them in best quality. Having compleeted this, I uploaded ( the originallly very sharp develloped pictures) them onto a.net, having them all rejected saying their blury. I dont understand why this happened. Could it be that i didnt sharpen then, as KCMMI said?
    I dont know how to do that.

    Thanks for all the great help so far. and again I apologize for how I started the topic!!

    Thanks
    Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
     
    beechcraft
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:17 pm

    Deltawings,
    i don´t really get it. So you´ve said you´re using a Digital Camera (6mP), but you´re printing the photos and scan them back into a digital file again??? That doesn´t make sense to me. It seems obious that you´re loosing quality.

    Why don´t you try and do some postprocessing on the original digital file?

    regards, Denis
    That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
     
    DeltaWings
    Topic Author
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:05 pm

    Yes, I said I had to scan them in again, because i didnt have acess to the digital file anymore. But does this really downgrade the quality? I mean what do you do with a film camera? With a film camera you have to scan pictures in aswell, so lets just make believe i had a fiilm camera. Even fotos from film cameras get accepted.
    Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
     
    Staffan
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:20 pm

    Yes, you lose quality, lots of quality.

    Staffan
     
    DeltaWings
    Topic Author
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:30 pm

    Ok. Thanks alot Staffan! So in future I will just make shure I only upload pictures from a digital file and Ill forget scanning
    Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
     
    res
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:36 pm

    Pics like that shouldn't be in the Q in the first place.
    FLY NAVY
     
    siggi757
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:44 pm

    It is very difficult to get pictures captured on film accepted on Airliners.net. I think it is safe to say that all of the guys who shoot film and submit to A.net use dedicated film scanners and scan the negative or positive but not the print itself.

    Don't be discouraged though. Just borrow the camera again from your friend and make sure that next time you get the files on a CD. Still it was nice of him to give you prints from the files.

    I also had difficulties when I started submitting to Airliners.net but the high standards make A.net what it is and it has helped me tremendously to improve my photography.

    Cheers,
    Siggi Ben  Smile
     
    DeltaWings
    Topic Author
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:15 am

    I thank you Siggi Ben! I think I know what to do in future. If I cant get his camera again Ill just use my film camera and have the fotoshop put the pics on CD. With all this fantastic help Im ready for real uploads.

    Thanks again to everyone who helped me out! I will remember this. Sorry again for my rude and disrespectful behaviour (bowing down). This shall never happen again. THANK YOU

     Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
    Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
     
    danpio
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:20 am

    I was wondering why he said he was using a scanner and a 6MP digicam. That was my first thought when reading the intro.

    The standards on a.net really will make you a better photog. It has improved me greatly, but not good enough.
    I'd kill everyone in this room for one drop of sweet, sweet beer.- Homer J. Simpson
     
    spacecadet
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:01 am

    I just want to give my thoughts on specifically why this process didn't work this time, since I think it's important to understand what's actually going on.

    When you take a digital photo, let's say you're taking a shot at 2048x1456 (I just made that up). Unless you're using RAW, as soon as you take the picture you've already lost data even on the best jpg setting.

    Then if you print, you're taking your pure 2048x1456 image and printing it at whatever dpi the printer prints at... if it's a dye-sub printer, let's say it prints at 300dpi. The printer is a digital-to-analog converter. If you're printing a 4x6, well, you do the math - you're already losing resolution. Even if you print at higher resolution or larger size, you still lose quality (just not as much) because it's not a pixel-for-pixel print - it's a sampling. Not only do you lose resolution but changes are also made to the colors and dynamic range - usually when you print, the dynamic range gets compressed a little bit. The print may look really good to your eye but it is already pretty far removed from the original digital file.

    Now you're going to take that print and scan it. Your scanner is an analog-to-digital converter. It's going to convert a physical picture into bits, and because it's starting from what's now an analog source it's not going to do it perfectly. Every scanner has its own rating for dynamic range and the consumer-level models range from pretty bad to decent in this area. So you will again lose some more dynamic range. You will also lose more resolution as you scan in - you can't think of your picture as being the same as the original anymore. It's now an analog photograph and if you try to make it the same size as it was originally, it's going to look bad - very bad. Probably like the photo you posted here. Scanners also vary in their color accuracy and focus - so your colors will change yet again, and the picture may become even softer.

    In the end you've converted the photo from digital to analog and back to digital again, and you've lost a lot of resolution, dynamic range, and sharpness in the process, with an increase in noise.

    Scanning directly from a film negative avoids some of these problems and overcomes others, because film is by nature higher resolution than any consumer digital camera to begin with, and because you're only doing one analog to digital conversion. Still a lot of post-processing is required to get things to look right.

    If you're shooting digital, always work from the digital file itself. If you lose the data on the memory card, just chalk it up as a learning experience and keep the photos for your own collection.
    I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
     
    kc7mmi
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:02 am

    Hey, when you have the photo shop put 'em on CD, they should be at least 3000x2000 pix. Then you can crop & resize to 1024x768. All my shots are scanned from the negative or slide...never from the print. So I'm glad we got that cleared up.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
     
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    Bruce
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:37 am

    Getting back to the original topic about the rejection...

    http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=AN-1.jpg

    I can agree that is bad quality and blurry. But this example brings up a question that I have, maybe a Screener can answer??? Assume this was sharp and good quality, would it be rejected for bad motiv? There are ropes and the little stand at the bottom. This scene is typical for a static airshow and also museums. I was thinking of shooting at a museum but they always have this stuff around the display planes. How can you shoot something like this that will be ok for motiv?

    bruce
    Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
     
    SA006
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:53 am

    Bruce - I think it is also badly centered...

    As for badmotiv I think if the picture is superb quality they might give a little bit of leeway..

    Rgds
    SA006
    Proudly South African
     
    BO__einG
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    RE: What Is Going On?!

    Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:21 am

    Ha! This kid reminds me of me when I was 15 and struggled to get picts on..

    Back in the days however it was easier to get in touch with Johan to whine and pout about rejections. Not today the screeners gladly replaced the spot as the prime recipients of the croakings. Big grin

    Now this is a case of a brand new photographer just starting out. I think many of you guys are giving him waay too much burden. Yeah this site has high standards but with a young teenager just starting out, he is seeing this site as an achievement of a lifetime.. Sorta like being published by Time Magazine. He should definetly work on improving the photos but maybe the screeners can give some slack on the standards for his first 2 or 3 uploads as long as they look improved to say Year 2000 a.net standards. This would be like a motivational incentive that his pictures can be added thru quality effort in editing.

    Scanning prints are a nightmare, if you got no choice scan at highest quality setting and save as .TIF file. Then save as .jpeg at MAX quality so it can be uploaded. Thru Digicam: start with original file, fix lighting, colours, resize to 1024 and sharpen till the wings come out crisp.
    Photography skills: try to make the airplane subject more interesting and as free of junk to the viewer for future shoots and try to hold camera level and steady..
    Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.

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